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Out of state DUI Dismissal / MA RMV Considering it Conviction

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This one is a little different than the usual out of state DUI question, so bear with me.

A friend living in Mass was arrested for DUI in Connecticut, completed an alcohol education program (AEP), and the charges were dismissed. Not a CWOF or a conviction, it was dismissed in CT after completing the program.

He is seeking to reinstate his drivers license in MA, but the MA RMV treats an out of state program or AEP as a conviction in Mass and put a DUI conviction on his record. He fought against this but upon seeing "AEP Completed" on the CT driving record, MA RMV went ahead and put it on.

Is this "RMV Conviction" considered an MA conviction misdafelony? Other than suitability from the C.O.P., should he worry about having his LTC revoked or denied upon renewal?

Thanks guys.

ETA - He is concerned because the RMV sent a letter to his house and his town police listing a "Conviction Date" on it.
 
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Um. “Dismissed” means dismissed. There is no conviction on your friend’s record and he or she is not prohibited as a result, but there will be a paper trail and it’ll show up on a background check. I assume you know this as you spoke to “suitability.”
 
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Um. “Dismissed” means dismissed. There is no conviction on your friend’s record and he or she is not prohibited as a result, but there will be a paper trail and it’ll show up on a background check. I assume you know this as you spoke to “suitability.”
I thought so. He is concerned because the RMV sent a letter to his house and his town police listing a "Conviction Date" on it.
 
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I thought so. He is concerned because the RMV sent a letter to his house and his town police listing a "Conviction Date" on it.
Plot thickens. Is copying that kind of letter to CoP a standard issue RMV dick move or is someone especially pissed at your friend?

Regardless, the RMV makes the laws as much as Maura does (not at all, IOW) so them saying so, doesn’t mean it’s so.

I expect if your friend goes to his renewal armed with the CT court paperwork with “dismissed” on it, he’s fine, except suitability (and given that plenty of people with homegrown DUI CWOF renew, that’s only an issue in 2A loathing towns).

Where’s he live?
 
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Plot thickens. Is copying that kind of letter to CoP a standard issue RMV dick move or is someone especially pissed at your friend?

Regardless, the RMV makes the laws as much as Maura does (not at all, IOW) so them saying so, doesn’t mean it’s so.

I expect if your friend goes to his renewal armed with the CT court paperwork with “dismissed” on it, he’s fine, except suitability (and given that plenty of people with homegrown DUI CWOF renew, that’s only an issue in 2A loathing towns).

Where’s he live?
Standard letter they send everyone and their local department, he didn't even meet face to face with anyone at the RMV because of covid. He's in a green town, they even have issued 2 or 3 MG licenses.

"Pursuant to Section 62 of Chapter 90 of the General laws" General Law - Part I, Title XIV, Chapter 90, Section 62
 
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Dadstoys

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RMV's opinion is irrelevant. No conviction means he's not a PP. Full stop.
He is as long as that's in the system.
COP is going to look no further to deny.
Doesn't make it right , but there it is.
You can argue it till the cows come home and get nowhere.
Sounds like he needs a good lawyer.
 

CATI

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Standard letter they send everyone and their local department, he didn't even meet face to face with anyone at the RMV because of covid. He's in a green town, they even have issued 2 or 3 MG licenses.

"Pursuant to Section 62 of Chapter 90 of the General laws" General Law - Part I, Title XIV, Chapter 90, Section 62
Do they send the letter to the local police only for DUI or all suspensions?
 
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It is my understanding that MA and the other handful of New England states have a "compact" in place to mutually rat-out their residents to each other. Florida and Quebec have a similar agreement, and this is between two countries! Sounds like your " friend" needs to move out of New England, establish residence a neutral state, get a drivers license there, and move on. First of all, he needs to remove all of his guns from MA before the cops do so for him and his whole collection ends up in one of those dreaded "thefthouses".
 

42!

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He is as long as that's in the system.
COP is going to look no further to deny.
Doesn't make it right , but there it is.
You can argue it till the cows come home and get nowhere.
Sounds like he needs a good lawyer.
The DMV is saying he has a conviction. The COP isn't looking at DMV record for criminal convictions, that would be NICS, III. He can run his own check, not quite as good but should show a DUI conviction if his criminal record has one. Either way, he has the paperwork from CT. Suitability could be an issue if it's a dick town.
 
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This is probably trying to treat it as a MA OUI CWOF. The OUI CWOF in MA generally required a 24D alcohol education program, but is not a "conviction" per-se and does not render one a PP. It is treated as if it is a conviction for two purposes: (1) Predicate offense, making a first time "conviction" in MA sentenced as a "2nd time conviction" and (2) CDL purposes, as the feds prohibit any alternative disposition that bears a penalty but serves to avoid a "conviction".

The first offense CT conviction or non-conviction is not a >2 year crime, so it does not trigger federal PP status on that basis. It also does not not trigger MA pp status.
 

Dadstoys

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The DMV is saying he has a conviction. The COP isn't looking at DMV record for criminal convictions, that would be NICS, III. He can run his own check, not quite as good but should show a DUI conviction if his criminal record has one. Either way, he has the paperwork from CT. Suitability could be an issue if it's a dick town.
That right there is the rub.
 

dcmdon

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I know a little bit about CT law. Your friend's charge was nolle'd. This means that if your friend stays clean for 18 months, the charges are dismissed.

Further CT law requires that all records associated with his case to be purged from the local PD where this happened as well as the CT judicial system. So I'm a bit curious about how the MA RMV found out about this. Unless he moved to MA during the 18 month "clean period".

Either way, it didn't happen. From a legal perspective.


Don
 
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I know a little bit about CT law. Your friend's charge was nolle'd. This means that if your friend stays clean for 18 months, the charges are dismissed.

Further CT law requires that all records associated with his case to be purged from the local PD where this happened as well as the CT judicial system. So I'm a bit curious about how the MA RMV found out about this. Unless he moved to MA during the 18 month "clean period".

Either way, it didn't happen. From a legal perspective.


Don
He was an MA resident when this occurred in CT. This happened over 18 months ago, so the charges have been dismissed in CT. The MA RMV has been holding his license hostage until he gave them court information from CT or a police report, which he refused. Then they threw their "conviction" on him with no warning when he tried to reinstate again recently and they saw the completed AEP on the CT driving record.

If this information is purged from the CT judicial system do you know how he could obtain something stating it was dismissed, in case suitability is questioned?
 

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He was an MA resident when this occurred in CT. This happened over 18 months ago, so the charges have been dismissed in CT. The MA RMV has been holding his license hostage until he gave them court information from CT or a police report, which he refused. Then they threw their "conviction" on him with no warning when he tried to reinstate again recently and they saw the completed AEP on the CT driving record.

If this information is purged from the CT judicial system do you know how he could obtain something stating it was dismissed, in case suitability is questioned?
Just curious, it sounds like they wanted proof from CT that it was dismissed, this would have cleared up everything, why did he refuse? Now he'll have to pay an attorney AND provide the same proof. What did he win by not just providing the court record?
 
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Just curious, it sounds like they wanted proof from CT that it was dismissed, this would have cleared up everything, why did he refuse? Now he'll have to pay an attorney AND provide the same proof. What did he win by not just providing the court record?
They wanted what they referred to as a "screenshot" from the CT court stating certain facts and that he went through the AEP. He even appealed it with the Board of Appeals with an MA lawyer and they wanted the same thing saying the AEP is considered an MA conviction.
 

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They wanted what they referred to as a "screenshot" from the CT court stating certain facts and that he went through the AEP. He even appealed it with the Board of Appeals with an MA lawyer and they wanted the same thing saying the AEP is considered an MA conviction.
Because for some things the AEP is, to the DMV, but it's not a conviction from a criminal standpoint, other than sentencing if he later does get convicted.
Your buddy lost this fight, give them what they want and move on.
If he had just given it to them to start it probably would never come up from a suitability standpoint, now he's attracted attention and they got the local PD involved. His stubbornness has made a suitability issue more likely, congratulations.
 

426wedge

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This one is a little different than the usual out of state DUI question, so bear with me.

A friend living in Mass was arrested for DUI in Connecticut, completed an alcohol education program (AEP), and the charges were dismissed. Not a CWOF or a conviction, it was dismissed in CT after completing the program.

He is seeking to reinstate his drivers license in MA, but the MA RMV treats an out of state program or AEP as a conviction in Mass and put a DUI conviction on his record. He fought against this but upon seeing "AEP Completed" on the CT driving record, MA RMV went ahead and put it on.

Is this "RMV Conviction" considered an MA conviction misdafelony? Other than suitability from the C.O.P., should he worry about having his LTC revoked or denied upon renewal?

Thanks guys.

ETA - He is concerned because the RMV sent a letter to his house and his town police listing a "Conviction Date" on it.
C'mon Mosin, How drunk were you?
 

AFAR/PFAR

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They wanted what they referred to as a "screenshot" from the CT court stating certain facts and that he went through the AEP. He even appealed it with the Board of Appeals with an MA lawyer and they wanted the same thing saying the AEP is considered an MA conviction.

Completely different realm, but for the three years I spent as a recruiter any type of diversionary program such as the AEP was also considered a conviction.
 

dcmdon

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He was an MA resident when this occurred in CT. This happened over 18 months ago, so the charges have been dismissed in CT. The MA RMV has been holding his license hostage until he gave them court information from CT or a police report, which he refused. Then they threw their "conviction" on him with no warning when he tried to reinstate again recently and they saw the completed AEP on the CT driving record.

If this information is purged from the CT judicial system do you know how he could obtain something stating it was dismissed, in case suitability is questioned?
He should have received something when it was dismissed.

Was the AEP a condition of dismissal? Just curious.
 

dcmdon

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They wanted what they referred to as a "screenshot" from the CT court stating certain facts and that he went through the AEP. He even appealed it with the Board of Appeals with an MA lawyer and they wanted the same thing saying the AEP is considered an MA conviction.
But its not a conviction. Does his attorney even know of the statute that I cited?

All the court docs literally disappear.
 
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