Other members of my household without FID/LTC, questions

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Hi,

I'm in the process of applying for my LTC in Waltham, MA.

My wife is hard anti-gun. (She was... a little upset when I told her I was going to be applying for an LTC.)

She feels she would be stupid not to also learn how to use a gun if they are going to be around the house (and told me that she hates that I'm going to "make" her learn how to use a gun). So she is going to be doing the safety courses or whatever MA requires along with me.

What I'm wondering about is what the implication are if she doesn't want to apply for an FID/LTC.

I am worried about situations like:

Let's say I have an unloaded handgun in a locked container in my car, parked at home. If she borrows my car for whatever reason, my understanding of the MA laws is she would be in trouble for driving with the handgun in the car. But, my understanding is that the container must not be accessible to her either... i.e., if I gave her a copy of the key, that might get her or me in trouble too, if she doesn't have an FID/LTC? I would think the best thing for her to do would be to let me know she is going to borrow the car, I tell her to move any firearms from the vehicle to an appropriate locked container in the house, and then take the car. Is that (accessing container, carrying the firearms, all while staying on our private property) legally a gray area for either of us?

If a home defense situation comes up and the gun comes out, but I am then incapacitated somehow, would she be in any legal trouble for using the gun without an FID/LTC? (I'm hoping the laws aren't quite that draconian... but there seems to be a lot of stuff in MA law that seems ridiculous to me, coming from VA.)
 
Welcome.

You will receive many replies, along with mine, and unless someone says that they're a lawyer, the free legal advice will be worth what is costs.

1) good for you!
2) Good for Ms. Ribeye Don't have her apply for the FID - it's the same class and same fee for both! Even if she does not become a shooter, knowledge is power.
3)There is no good, adjudicated, clear answer as to whether someone in possession of a container that they can't open, that has a gun inside, is in possession of the gun, under Mass laws. That's why the Ms. having an LTC is a good idea.
3a) Most here would not advise using the 'storage' scenario you describe. Have secure (lawful) storage in your home.
4) if it gets to the HD situation you describe, worrying about the legality of her using the gun is a "deck chairs on the Titanic" thing. It's more important that she and you be comfortable and safe in handling the gun.

As I said, you should get legal advice from YOUR Lawyer that specializes in Firearms law. All of our best-intentioned posts are just opinion.
 
You shouldn’t be leaving a gun, loaded or unloaded, in your car. So don’t do that. As far as the self defense situation, the laws are that draconian.

Welcome to Massachusetts
 
Alright makes sense. I can't think of any reason I'd have a gun stored in the car at home, was just trying to think of possible ways she could get caught up.
I do plan to have legal storage in the house.
I haven't discussed that yet with her, and was mostly just looking for info to help me convince her that getting her licence would be best, even if she never plans to own or carry herself.
 
MA safe storage laws say you have to keep it from an unauthorised person, no LTC makes her unauthorised, unless under your supervision, which means you being right there. So giving her a key/combination is out. Having her move a locked container that holds a gun....as it's been said, it hasn't been tested yet. I don't think you want to be the test case.

As for home defense. They would probably charge you in MA, so I would expect them to charge her. Better alive than dead.
 
Alright makes sense. I can't think of any reason I'd have a gun stored in the car at home, was just trying to think of possible ways she could get caught up.
I'll give you an easy one.
You are on you way home from shopping with the wife. You happen to stop and pick up your new gun. It's locked up in a case on the back seat, You stop for gas. You run inside to buy a donut. You wife is in the car with the gun and you are not there. Cop Friendly stops for gas and sees gun, asks wife for LTC. Wife get arrested and you never see that gun again.

You walk out holding the donut and wondering why all the cops.
 
I'll give you an easy one.
You are on you way home from shopping with the wife. You happen to stop and pick up your new gun. It's locked up in a case on the back seat, You stop for gas. You run inside to buy a donut. You wife is in the car with the gun and you are not there. Cop Friendly stops for gas and sees gun, asks wife for LTC. Wife get arrested and you never see that gun again.

You walk out holding the donut and wondering why all the cops.
Depends on what kind of donut. Jack.
 
If the Mrs is afraid of or otherwise intimidated or against firearms then she should not be involved with them. No different from a child. As someone said above: No LTC, no access. (assuming you're in MA since asking about LTC)

A firearm properly secured in the vehicle isn't any different legally from a firearm properly secured in the house. Though it would be better for the safe to be in a secure, unseen location in the vehicle and the the question won't come up.

IANAL, YMMV


Depends on what kind of donut. Jack.

Butternut
 
NRA "Women on Target" events will be happening at clubs around New England this fall.

Your wife does not need to be licensed to participate, she would have the opportunity to become initially introduced to firearms under supervision while enjoying the comradeship of other women doing the same.

At Leominster Sportsmen's Association for example there is classroom instruction in the morning followed by a light lunch and then out to the ranges for the afternoon.

You can search for an event near you at the link, but confirm early because these events fill up fast.

NRA Explore | Women On Target®

:emoji_tiger:
 
I'll give you an easy one.
You are on you way home from shopping with the wife. You happen to stop and pick up your new gun. It's locked up in a case on the back seat, You stop for gas. You run inside to buy a donut. You wife is in the car with the gun and you are not there. Cop Friendly stops for gas and sees gun, asks wife for LTC. Wife get arrested and you never see that gun again.

You walk out holding the donut and wondering why all the cops.
But you do get to keep the donut.....Right?
 
Don’t forget to remove the ammo can from the car too. Probably a good idea to check hoods, collars and pant cuffs for spent brass which might fall out in the car too.
 
My wife doesn't have an LTC not because she's anti gun, but because the process where we live is long, drawn out, expensive, and overly difficult. She's familiar with everything I own and comfortble shooting it all at the range with me. A desire to learn and understand doesn't necessarily mean she wants to, or will ever CC. She's perfectly happy mag-dumping all my ammo into clay pigeons and watching the pieces fly about.

OP, an abundance of caution is to be taken in the PRM when it comes to firearms and the draconian laws associated with them; you will learn this quickly. You are either with your girl directly, or they are locked up in the house, no inbetween. You're new here and we welcome you. Take some time to read, then read some more, and then read some more of the threads regarding MA firearm laws in your state and or city. As stated above, most of us aren't lawyers so take any advice given with a grain of salt and realize it is ultimately you, and you alone who makes the decisions you have to live with. This state sucks.
Cheers!
 
My wife isn’t anti, she’s just not interested. But I got her to get her LTC Justin case. The scenarios such as you being admitted suddenly to the hospital while carrying. She can take your gun home. Otherwise the police get it.

Also if something happens and you unexpectedly pass away or are otherwise incapacitated she can have access to your collection and dispose/disperse them as needed.
 
NRA "Women on Target" events will be happening at clubs around New England this fall.

Your wife does not need to be licensed to participate, she would have the opportunity to become initially introduced to firearms under supervision while enjoying the comradeship of other women doing the same.

At Leominster Sportsmen's Association for example there is classroom instruction in the morning followed by a light lunch and then out to the ranges for the afternoon.

You can search for an event near you at the link, but confirm early because these events fill up fast.

NRA Explore | Women On Target®

:emoji_tiger:


we still have space available in ours at Wrentham.. Not a bad drive
http://www.wsaclub.com/WOT_Flyer.pdf
 
as others have said...storing a gun in a car is not a great idea. My wife isn't anti gun. But she is anti me getting more guns. I'm up front with her. I tell her that I can't make any promises.

Having said that, the wife has taken the course and can apply for her LTC. But she won't. I have no idea why. She knows it is a good idea because I do have guns in the house. Anyway, next steps is to get the girls, my daughters, down there to apply for their FID cards. Once they have them I think the wife will jump on board too.

OP...all good suggestions about the training and women on target and such for your wife. Lots of women shoot and shoot very well.

If I could make a suggestion.....when you take her shooting for the first time make sure it is a pleasant day. Not a 90 plus degree day with high humidity. make sure it is not raining or freezing. 60 to 70 degrees is good for new people. Mostly sunny sky. Then all she has to worry about is gun safety and not the elements. If they are miserable because of the weather they will associate that with shooting and that might give a newbie who is on the fence a reason to not continue...Just my opinion.....
 
If I could make a suggestion.....when you take her shooting for the first time make sure it is a pleasant day. Not a 90 plus degree day with high humidity. make sure it is not raining or freezing. 60 to 70 degrees is good for new people. Mostly sunny sky. Then all she has to worry about is gun safety and not the elements. If they are miserable because of the weather they will associate that with shooting and that might give a newbie who is on the fence a reason to not continue...Just my opinion.....

And don’t take her to a crowded public range, take her outdoors if possible. And don’t have her shoot anything other than .22 to start. If she asks for more, fine but start out slow. Had a friend take his wife shooting for the first time w his Shield .40 and he wonders why she hated it.
 
If I could make a suggestion.....when you take her shooting for the first time make sure it is a pleasant day. Not a 90 plus degree day with high humidity. make sure it is not raining or freezing. 60 to 70 degrees is good for new people.

And don’t take her to a crowded public range, take her outdoors if possible. And don’t have her shoot anything other than .22 to start. If she asks for more, fine but start out slow.

Both of the above are good advice, and yet, not such good advice. My advice is, have someone else take her to the range the first couple of times. The suggestions to find a "Women and Guns" event are a good idea.

Another possibility is to pay a qualified instructor to give her a private lesson or two. Or you could have a private lesson for the two of you where the instructor is the leader and teaches you both.

Keep in mind, that if you take her to the range, then you will be instructing her, and effectively telling her what to do. You should think carefully whether this will be a situation that gives her a positive experience. If you have an instructor teach you both, then the dynamic is completely different. And a good instructor will be quite familiar with helping people who are nervous around guns become comfortable.

Of course, any sort of instruction is not cheap, but if this is the cost of making a good first impression, then it will be money well spent.
 
The three posts just above are great advice.

And yes, no LTC, no access at all. Some years back my wife decided to stop renewing her LTC. We had to set up a separate safe for the valuables of hers that were in the safe. One of my sons got an LTC so that if something happens to me there's someone in the immediate family who can legally deal with the firearms.
 
Both of the above are good advice, and yet, not such good advice. My advice is, have someone else take her to the range the first couple of times. The suggestions to find a "Women and Guns" event are a good idea.

Another possibility is to pay a qualified instructor to give her a private lesson or two. Or you could have a private lesson for the two of you where the instructor is the leader and teaches you both.

Keep in mind, that if you take her to the range, then you will be instructing her, and effectively telling her what to do. You should think carefully whether this will be a situation that gives her a positive experience. If you have an instructor teach you both, then the dynamic is completely different. And a good instructor will be quite familiar with helping people who are nervous around guns become comfortable.

Of course, any sort of instruction is not cheap, but if this is the cost of making a good first impression, then it will be money well spent.

Agree on having someone else take her, particularly since OP is not experienced. My advice was more for the generic taking a noob to the range, everything you said about taking the wife/SO for the first time is spot on. I have a friend who’s wife is kinda uncomfortable w the gun thing and she asked me to take her for her first time shooting. Not as much because not comfortable w hubby but they’re both competitive types and she wanted to have a little bit of a leg up when he took her shooting the first time (she asked me not to tell him, she wanted to surprise him). I took her, she had fun and felt a lot better having gone. More than anything, she was nervous about going to the range w other people around. I still don’t think he knows, but then again she doesn’t know he has an AR15 or that I sold it to him, lol.
 
Alright makes sense. I can't think of any reason I'd have a gun stored in the car at home, was just trying to think of possible ways she could get caught up.
I do plan to have legal storage in the house.
I haven't discussed that yet with her, and was mostly just looking for info to help me convince her that getting her licence would be best, even if she be never plans to own or carry herself.
There are some situations that are never planned. Some day you may need her to take possession of your gun for medical reasons, legal situations, etc. An ounce of prevention is really worth a pound of cure.
 
My wife is hard anti-gun.

Tell her: "Women shouldn't own guns, they're beyond their skill-set..."

In my experience, she will not only become more Pro-Gun than you, but she will also out-shoot you at the range and most likely become a reloader...

Her new "favorite color" will be Mossy Oak.


And, "Welcome" to NES Ribeye!
~Matt
 
She should apply for an LTC. No harm in getting it, and if she's adamant about not having a gun herself after getting it, she doesn't have to exercise it. She might, however, discover that she enjoys it during live fire part of course. Definitely gets the blood flowing the first time.
 
Haven't read the other replies but here are my two cents:
She feels she would be stupid not to also learn how to use a gun if they are going to be around the house...
Good for her! I completely agree that she should be able to safely handle a firearm even if she doesn't like guns and never goes shooting. That said, don't push her into guns - she needs to come around on her own. Best bet is to find a buddy who's wife also shoots and get the two wives to talk. You can also try walking around Moody St at night and just wait for your wife to lean over and whisper "you're carrying right??" when she seems some sketchball hanging around the parking lot (I speak from experience here). Anyways, good luck - I'd offer to take you two to the range but I'm moving out of Waltham.
 
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