Optics/scopes

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Why are civilian optics such a pain in the @ss. Military scopes are at zero at 100 meters and are set for 100/150/200/250/300/350....
Why can't anyone make a system that does not require a calculator in the field to use effectively? I can zero a 1937 German Ajack at 100 meters. Go to the correct distance on the dial and hit a 9" target out to 800 meters. A Commercial scope requires more BS to deal with other than your target. Why make it so complicated?
I love my 1937 Ajack, 1957 PU, 1986 Z24. From zero to .... they are fool proof.
 
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What exactly is the BS that you are complaining about? Commercial and military scopes are typically designed to do two distinctly different things.

B
 
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What exactly is the BS that you are complaining about? Commercial and military scopes are typically designed to do two distinctly different things.

B

The best response. A 9" target is the objective. A Typical Military scope can go from 100 meters (zero) to 800 meters w/ just literally a turn of the dial. BDC reticules just don't really do it. I am adding a pic. Notice the 1, 2, 3... on the range dial. Why can't a commercial scope be as easy? There is enough adjustment for everything in between.
DSCF0026.jpg
 
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Military scopes are designed to be easy, at the expense of precision. It's like the difference between Leupold M1 & M3 target knobs. They are designed to do something different.

I almost guarantee if you put the 800M setting on the scope, you are only going to be in the ball park at that range. It would be quite good for engaging large linear targets but not that good at shooting small targets. A scope with fine adjustments will allow you to dial it in exactly for the conditions and the lot of ammunition you are shooting.

B
 
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Military scopes are designed to be easy, at the expense of precision. It's like the difference between Leupold M1 & M3 target knobs. They are designed to do something different.

I almost guarantee if you put the 800M setting on the scope, you are only going to be in the ball park at that range. It would be quite good for engaging large linear targets but not that good at shooting small targets. A scope with fine adjustments will allow you to dial it in exactly for the conditions and the lot of ammunition you are shooting.

B
That is where I disagree. Military scopes are set for a specific caliber, commercial for anything they are mounted on. At 800 meters they tend to be more precise IMHO. You are also talking seconds to adjust, not minutes. When I am hunting seconds do count. Even a PSO-1 has it all over commercial scopes as it includes a rangefinder and BDC.
 

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KMM696

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I would add that the commercial scope manufacturers don't know what their scope is being mounted to - could be a 338 Lapua, could be a 22LR. There's no way for them to put a BDC knob on that will cover every set of bullet drops that could be out there.

The two approaches I've seen from the commercial companies are to sell scopes with changeable,cartridge specific elevation turrets that have various calculated bullet drops engraved instead of MOA clicks; and the bullet drop reticles that approximate drops, but leave it up to you to figure out the exact yardage for each point with the cartridge and rifle it's mounted too.

The Nikon bdc reticle here:

nikon_bdc_st_popup.jpg


shows Nikon's best guess for ranges for standard and magnum hunting cartridges. With a 9 inch target, they'll work pretty darn close. However, when I mount that Nikon on my Savage 22LR, those aiming points still work, just at very different yardages. Instead of that bottom dot being 500 or 600 yards, it's more like 200. They still work, though. A military scope design has the luxury of knowing exactly what it's being mounted to - look at Trijicon's weapon and cartridge specific reticles on the ACOG for those.
 
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How can a scope with a 1 min. adjustment, say for instance a Leupold M3A that is on a M24 rifle, be a more precise aiming optic, than say a Leupold Mark 4 with M1 (1/4 min adjustment) knobs?

I didn't say they were faster, I said they are more precise.

B
 
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You can also get custom reticles from various manufactures. I know Leupold does this, you put in your ballistic information for your load, and the reticle can be customized to your load/rifle. There are also target knobs that can be added that have marks such as you show that are for the different distances with a specific load. (I believe both Leuopold and Nightforce have these - maybe others).
 
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How can a scope with a 1 min. adjustment, say for instance a Leupold M3A that is on a M24 rifle, be a more precise aiming optic, than say a Leupold Mark 4 with M1 (1/4 min adjustment) knobs?

I didn't say they were faster, I said they are more precise.

B

+1

To the OP:
You are talking aboud BDC aka Bullet Drop Compensator. It is just a best guess done by a manufacture for a specific bullet at a specific altitude and specific temeprature. If any of those is different good luck. Have you actually dialed the scope for 8 and tried shooting it at 800 meters?
If you want something similar, a Leupold MK IV with M3 turrets will do. Personally, I prefer M1 turrets with .25 inch per unit clicks to provide more fine adjustment. If you want absolutely quickness, look into Trijicon ACOG's or leupold MKIV SPR that have BDC and range estimating reticles right on the glass. But they will get you only into the ball park. It is your responsibility to actually shoot the rifle with specific ammunition at specific conditions and verify how close you are.
 
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How can a scope with a 1 min. adjustment, say for instance a Leupold M3A that is on a M24 rifle, be a more precise aiming optic, than say a Leupold Mark 4 with M1 (1/4 min adjustment) knobs?

I didn't say they were faster, I said they are more precise.

B

If you were to take a Military scope, set at 50 meter increments, with a 7.62x51 147gr and the line of sight at 3" it will at a 250 meter zero be +3.5" at 150 and -4.2 at 300 yards. That is a hunting scope! No adjustments. 7.7", that is smaller than your head! I guess that is not accurate? The cams can be changed for almost any caliber that exists.
 
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Let me explain it in graphical terms. The elevation knob in the scope is threaded on a lathe. It's movements are linear. A ballistic path is not linear. You could describe it as either logarithmic or exponential depending on how you label the axis. For each movement in one axis, the amount of movement in the other axis is either a little greater or lesser, but it changes the further you go on the curve.

Military scopes typically have one revolution elevation turrets because they don't want to to confuse the shooter. You are going to have a more difficult time intersecting the ballistic curve with the gross 1 minute adjustments in a military scope than you will with a more precise aiming device that has a 1/4 or 1/8 minute adjustments. That means that the military scope with gross adjustments in less precise than the scope with the finer adjustments because it over or under shoots the ballistic curve for each range setting.

If you are confused to the point that you don't understand that a 1/4 min adjustment scope is a more precise aiming device, there is no explanation that I will give that will satisfy your objections. Feel free to believe that your scope settings match the true ballistic path.

B
 
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