Opinion requested on budget semi-auto rifle

[Bob P]

I'm researching the plunge in buying a semi-auto rifle.

I don't like AK's/SKS's - call it personal prejudice.

I'm looking for a balance between price, reliability & accuracy. I'm not looking for a .308 or the like - 5.56/.223 is more what I'm looking for.

I'm looking for recommendations & or opinions.

Currently on my consideration list are:

AR15 (but the price is issue here)
Min 14 (accuracy is issue here)
M1 Carbine (the round - availability & performance is issue here)

I can see I'm going to have to trade something off. I'm interested in opinions on the balance.

Thanks!

 

[vellnueve]

A basic AR can be built for $600. Simply buy a lower receiver from your local dealer (FS has them), and a rifle kit from a place like Delton or Model 1 Sales. Takes no more than an hour or two to build.

FS has plenty of M1 carbines in the $600 range. They had 7 the last time i was there (stay away from the Universals)

 

[strangenh]

Build or buy an inexpensive AR on a good lower?
You can upgrade it bit by bit over time.

I'd give the same sort of advice on a FAL if you'd wanted .308.

 

[M1911]

AR15 (but the price is issue here)
Min 14 (accuracy is issue here)
M1 Carbine (the round - availability & performance is issue here)

What do you want it for? Plinking? Social engagements?

The AR15 has the most options, the best accuracy, more power than the carbine, but is pricey.

The Mini-14 has reasonable accuracy, but nothing to write home about. In addition, large capacity, reliable pre-ban magazines can be hard to find.

The M1 Carbine is a sweet little gun. Reasonable accuracy, but nothing to write home about. 15 round pre-ban magazines are readily available. Not as cheap as they used to be.

If I were you, I'd save up for an AR15 or get an M1 Carbine.

 

[MassMark]

G&R Tactical has a great deal on a basic AR-15 - it comes complete less trigger and hammer, (easy to add yourself) for a bit over $600.00. Like others have said, you can also build one from the ground up, or seek the assistance of John at JDL Sales right here on our very own forum. Another good source for receivers is Jon Kruger at Anvil Arms, who will not only get you going for under $200.00, he'll custom engrave any logo you wish on the magwell...

 

[Adam_MA]

M1 Carbine (the round - availability & performance is issue here)

What is the problem with this rounds performance, and availability? You can buy them pretty much everywhere, and here are some performance stats for you...

I checked 3 calibers, all the same manufacture (Federal), in the most available bullet size, and here's what you get..

357 Mag: 158Gr. 1240fps 593lbs $26/50rds
44 Mag: 240Gr. 1180fps 742lbs $36/50rds
30 carb: 110Gr 1990fps 967lbs $22/50rds

That being said, my M1 Carbine is surprisingly accurate out to 50yds, and far more than respectfully accurate out to 100yds.

 

[strangenh]

What is the problem with this rounds performance, and availability? You can buy them pretty much everywhere, and here are some performance stats for you...

I checked 3 calibers, all the same manufacture (Federal), in the most available bullet size, and here's what you get..

357 Mag: 158Gr. 1240fps 593lbs $26/50rds
44 Mag: 240Gr. 1180fps 742lbs $36/50rds
30 carb: 110Gr 1990fps 967lbs $22/50rds

That being said, my M1 Carbine is surprisingly accurate out to 50yds, and far more than respectfully accurate out to 100yds.

Not to go too far off track, but the barrel lengths measured there are very different. 18" for the .30 carbine, and 4" for the .44 and .357. The .357mag and .44mag tend to do surprisingly well out of a long barrel (almost 2000fps for a 158gr .357mag, for example).

But it's true that the .30 carbine is a good round for many purposes, and there's not a lot of semi-auto rifles for the .357 and .44 mags. (Ruger Deerfield/.44 and the Mateba carbine are all that come to mind).

I still think starting with an inexpensive base AR platform on a good lower and building from there is the way to go.

 

[vellnueve]

From what I've read, at 100 yards the carbine bullet retains more energy than the .357, even out of a carbine length barrel.

 

[strangenh]

From what I've read, at 100 yards the carbine bullet retains more energy than the .357, even out of a carbine length barrel.

Definitely could well be - the cross section is marginally better on the .30 carbine round, grain per grain. My point is just to compare apples to apples... er, carbines to carbines. Not handguns to carbines.

...ETA - though Chuck Hawks thinks the .357mag is more effective at 100yds than the .30 carbine. http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_killing_power_list.htm

 

[Timbob1]

I liked my mini 14 until I got an AR, now the ruger just sits in the safe and pouts.

 

[BOBKATT]

If your looking for a fun gun and a gun incase the apocolypse comes, give the AK a shot. Cheap ammo, reliable, still reasonably priced if you can find one. 30 rnd. mags aren't too too scarce. Etc.

 

[Bob P]

Thanks all for the input! I was leaning in the AR direction and this is pushing me that way even more.

For use it's for fun and in case I need to fend off the zombie hordes.

Looks like I'll be taking advantage of the tax holiday. Now, how to tell my wife.....

 

[Dirtypacman]

Good to see you going with the AR - great platform to do what your asking.

Just tell your wife your making an investment for the security of your home and family.

 

[Scrivener]

NO-ONE suggested a CMP Garand? I'm disappointed.
I realize the OP was looking at the lower end of the caliber spectrum, but still.

Buy a couple of cases of the Greek .30-'06 to go with it and you'll have a ball and a piece of history. No DIY AR will give you that.

 

[Arioch]

I resisted the AR for years without any serious disappointment. The only reason I've gotten into them recently is because of a few very good offers that came my way. All-in-all, the .223 is not one of my favorite cartridges. That having been said, if the cartridge is not an issue with you, the AR platform is a great way to go. My current build will use an upper of slightly larger caliber.

 

[Bob P]

NO-ONE suggested a CMP Garand? I'm disappointed.
I realize the OP was looking at the lower end of the caliber spectrum, but still.

Buy a couple of cases of the Greek .30-'06 to go with it and you'll have a ball and a piece of history. No DIY AR will give you that.

Oh, trust me, a Garand is on the 'long term' buy list. Considering my borderline obsession with WWII history owning one is inevitable.

 

[Scrivener]

Oh, trust me, a Garand is on the 'long term' buy list. Considering my borderline obsession with WWII history owning one is inevitable.

Garands are limited and going fast (the CMP is bringing them in from Greece, Korea and God-knows-where-else).

AR-15's are a dime a dozen. Do the math.

 

[kevin9]

For a .223 try a Keltec SU16. It's a fun little carbine with a piston action (v.s. direct gas) that takes AR mags. The can be a bit hard to find, but are great little guns.

If you want to go with a pistol caliber then I understand Hi-Point carbines are inexpensive fun guns. Some say that a lever-action carbine is a good pistol caliber to start with.

AK's are fun too, and not terribly expensive. I've been looking at some of the Saiga models, particularly in .308.

 

[Coyote33]

I'll go with something different. Well, you could go with the Ruger 10/22. If you want more accuracy at longer range, try Model 597™ Magnum LS HB rifles are chambered in 22 Win Mag and 17 HMR.

 

[vellnueve]

Garands are limited and going fast (the CMP is bringing them in from Greece, Korea and God-knows-where-else).

AR-15's are a dime a dozen. Do the math.

Why can't he just buy both?

 

[Bob P]

Thanks to all who posted - but I went Black.

I just ordered and AR 15 with a couple of very minor mods from JDL - Stag 2h upper with a mil spec Stag lower mated to an Ace stock, custom guard and ergo grip.

Now I need a tee shirt that says 'I like my guns like I like my coffee; black.'

 

[Mike-Mike]

Thanks to all who posted - but I went Black.

I just ordered and AR 15 with a couple of very minor mods from JDL - Stag 2h upper with a mil spec Stag lower mated to an Ace stock, custom guard and ergo grip.

Now I need a tee shirt that says 'I like my guns like I like my coffee; black.'

Congrats and good luck ...

Now about that shirt.. "I like my guns like I like my coffee... Black, large, hot, often, free, and always there"

 

[Bob P]

If you ever find a source of free guns or coffee, please let us know!

 

[MassMark]

Congrats Bob - though I've never dealt with John personally, all indications are that I should and will...Seems like a top-shelf guy.

 

[Raoul Duke]

Thanks to all who posted - but I went Black.

I just ordered and AR 15 with a couple of very minor mods from JDL - Stag 2h upper with a mil spec Stag lower mated to an Ace stock, custom guard and ergo grip.

Now I need a tee shirt that says 'I like my guns like I like my coffee; black.'

Nice job Bob, I would tell you what a great experience I had with JDL and how my rifle won't fail no matter what I feed it.. etc etc, but people are gonna start thinking I'm cashing his checks if I drop any more superlatives.

 

[Bob P]

I can see what you mean. All I've had is the initial meeting with him and discussion on what I wanted but I've got to say it was the most pleasant sales experience I've ever had bar none.

 

[Nickle]

NO-ONE suggested a CMP Garand? I'm disappointed.
I realize the OP was looking at the lower end of the caliber spectrum, but still.

Buy a couple of cases of the Greek .30-'06 to go with it and you'll have a ball and a piece of history. No DIY AR will give you that.

Shame I hadn't noticed this thread earlier.

$445 to $600, plus $23 for shipping, and you can have a rifle worth twice what you paid for it.

http://www.odcmp.com/Services/Rifles/m1garand.htm

 

[Titan]

Shame I hadn't noticed this thread earlier.

$445 to $600, plus $23 for shipping, and you can have a rifle worth twice what you paid for it.

http://www.odcmp.com/Services/Rifles/m1garand.htm

How would it be worth twice what you paid for it? Do you think they're incorrectly graded?

 

[Nickle]

Seen an M1 Garand for sale at a gun show or gun shop for under $1000 lately?

They are correctly graded.

The differences in the first 3 grades are all throat and muzzle wear.

 

[vellnueve]

I've seen plenty of them for sale under $1000.

Actually, Four Seasons had 9 of them as of yesterday. Eight of them were under $1000 (600-900 apiece) with the ninth an M1D.