Opinion from NES Electricians....The real ones!!!

[1903Collector]

All I wanted to do is swap some lights…….. I would say this box is stuffed beyond capacity plus, no NM clamp. What Say ye all? Fortunately there is enough slack in the cables so it can be re-worked into a bigger box.

 

[looser38]

Obligatory:
Disclosure: I am not an electrician, insurance adjuster or lawyer.

 

[one-eyed Jack]

Box extender. Jack.

 

[Sparky1911]

Re work that. New 4 square deep box with proper connectors.

 

[slap shot]

idk, looks like some unused real estate around the 7 o'clock area.

 

[1903Collector]

Re work that. New 4 square deep box with proper connectors.
Yea, already on it. Had a drop ceiling in the basement and all the recessed fixtures were connected to the feed and just stuffed up in the void, no box. What other horrors await? Some real sloppy past work.

 

[RumRunner]

There would be a lot more room in there if the romex insulation was peeled back and all the wires weren't going in the same hole.

 

[1903Collector]

idk, looks like some unused real estate around the 7 o'clock area.

But...at least they taped everything!

 

[1903Collector]

There would be a lot more room in there if the romex insulation was peeled back and all the wires weren't going in the same hole.

True but I still think that box is too small for that many wires, I don't know the device count for a box that size.

 

[Uzi2]

All I wanted to do is swap some lights…….. I would say this box is stuffed beyond capacity plus, no NM clamp. What Say ye all? Fortunately there is enough slack in the cables so it can be re-worked into a bigger box.

View attachment 608756

No Romex connectors on the wires is automatic fail.

All wires through the same hole is automatic fail.

No wire nut on the grounds is automatic fail.

Shut off the power, disconnect all the wires, get proper Romex connectors and put 2 wires, per hole from 3 different directions and strip or pull back the Romex to 1/2 inch insulation within the box. Remake the connections, fold the wires neatly and replace the cover.

 

[one-eyed Jack]

Go to a 6x6 box. Jack.

 

[556USER]

The worst thing I see there is lack of a proper clamp on the cables that can chafe on the box where they enter. Someone else said Romex connectors, maybe they meant the same thing?

There are code tables indicating how many conductors of various sizes that can be put into a box of X cubic inches. Even if that box is not over filled per code I would use a bigger one just out of ease of working in it. Don't feel like looking up the table now.

 

[Dennis in MA]

Boxes are for sissies.

 

[VTski4x4]

Paging @Mr. Brownstone

 

[556USER]

paging @FireDept

 

[ReggieB9mm]

How to Size a Junction Box

Wondering how to size a junction box? Find out how to use the NEC code to determine the size of the junction box that your application requires.

www.polycase.com

 

[MAGA99]

If you reworked that properly into a 4” square deep, you can have 6 14/2s in a 4” deep, max capacity!! If it was me, I would have done it differently in the first place, but I’d go 4-11/16 deep box, so you have some space to spare! Get new wire nuts rated for the number of wires. Also, ground the box!

 

[Uzi2]

The worst thing I see there is lack of a proper clamp on the cables that can chafe on the box where they enter. Someone else said Romex connectors, maybe they meant the same thing?

There are code tables indicating how many conductors of various sizes that can be put into a box of X cubic inches. Even if that box is not over filled per code I would use a bigger one just out of ease of working in it. Don't feel like looking up the table now.

Yes, "Romex connectors" is the common term used for the "clamp" in the business.

That box cubic area is code for the number of wires coming into it, and yes a larger box would ease things but not required.

 

[MAGA99]

This is out of Ugly’s, 2020 edition. In the OPs situation you must count each black wire, each white wire, but all those grounds only count once. I don’t write the code.

 

[1903Collector]

If you reworked that properly into a 4” square deep, you can have 6 14/2s in a 4” deep, max capacity!! If it was me, I would have done it differently in the first place, but I’d go 4-11/16 deep box, so you have some space to spare! Get new wire nuts rated for the number of wires. Also, ground the box!

That's the plan and I can eliminate one wire completely as they had two wires feeding the lights in that room. I'm real OCD with this kind of stuff, I'll trace all those wires and label them then put a label on the cover with the breaker number and what the stuff in the box feeds. They had UF cable feeding the lights which I thought was funny, nothing wrong with it I guess but whoever did this originally was scarping the bottom of the barrel for stock.

When I popped out the tiles in another room if found two plastic boxes with duplex's in them and they were hot, no idea what the hell those were for. House was built in 87' but it seems there have been a lot of hands working on it over the years

 

[1903Collector]

View attachment 608800
This is out of Ugly’s, 2020 edition. In the OPs situation you must count each black wire, each white wire, but all those grounds only count once. I don’t write the code.

I was told years ago that the wire connectors count as well, is that not the case?

 

[MAGA99]

That's the plan and I can eliminate one wire completely as they had two wires feeding the lights in that room. I'm real OCD with this kind of stuff, I'll trace all those wires and label them then put a label on the cover with the breaker number and what the stuff in the box feeds. They had UF cable feeding the lights which I thought was funny, nothing wrong with it I guess but whoever did this originally was scarping the bottom of the barrel for stock.

UF sucks to strip, wtf!

 

[Choctaw]

I was told years ago that the wire connectors count as well, is that not the case?

If you mean wire nuts, they do not count. Each conductor counts as one, all uninsulated grounds count as one, each romex connector or fitting counts as one, anything attached to the front of the box, (switch or outlet) counts as two.

 

[1903Collector]

UF sucks to strip, wtf!

LOL yea I discovered that.

 

[Palladin]

box is 15.5 cu in. each #14 conductor requires 2 cu in. you have six 14/2 entering the box, that's 12 conductors plus the ground, which (per the 2017 NEC) counts as one conductor, so your conductors require a box with a capacity of 26 cu in. at a minimum, a 4 in square box, 2 in deep, 32 cu in

 

[Palladin]

If you mean wire nuts, they do not count. Each conductor counts as one, all uninsulated grounds count as one, each romex connector or fitting counts as one, anything attached to the front of the box, (switch or outlet) counts as two.

counting of grounds changed in the 2020 NEC

 

[1903Collector]

If you mean wire nuts, they do not count. Each conductor counts as one, all uninsulated grounds count as one, each romex connector or fitting counts as one, anything attached to the front of the box, (switch or outlet) counts as two.

That's interesting, to me a wire nut takes up more space than a romex connector.

 

[Palladin]

That's interesting, to me a wire nut takes up more space than a romex connector.

devices, a switch or a receptacle, counts as the largest conductor entering the box. Cable clamps also count as one conductor

 

[Spartan65]

We say,

Hire a licensed electrician.

 

[1903Collector]

We say,

Hire a licensed electrician.

Stuff like this is in my comfort level but I also know when to leave something the f*** alone lol.