I do an open carry dog walk twice a day (waiting for my concealed carry permit). So far, not even a sideways glance from other people, although the cows & horses give me dirty looks.
![[grin]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/041.gif "Grin [grin]")
Last edited:
-
If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership The benefits pay for the membership many times over.
Open Carry
- Thread starter Martlet
- Start date
I do an open carry dog walk twice a day (waiting for my concealed carry permit). So far, not even a sideways glance from other people, although the cows & horses give me dirty looks.
What do you think your police chief would think when he found out about it?
I do an open carry dog walk twice a day (waiting for my concealed carry permit). So far, not even a sideways glance from other people, although the cows & horses give me dirty looks.
You say you are from Big Sky Country, so I presume Montana which has a different attitude towards firearms in general (although that may change as more disgruntled Los Angelinos move into your area and try to bring Southern California with them). You also indicate that you walk your dog in an area where there are cows and horses which indicate to me that you are walking in a rural area. I don't want to bust your bubble but I used to walk my dog and open carry too,...back when I lived in Arizona and was tramping out in the desert with my pooch and my first wife (she open carried too). At that time there were no CCW permits for private citizens there, only LEOS could carry concealed. What you have done doesn't sound very remarkable because of where you live.
If you are trying to rub it in because you now live in a state that embraces gun culture, it's only going to piss people off, like another chap who until recently was going out of his way to extoll the virtues of New Hampshire over Massachusetts. Remember that we are all agents of choice and have our reasons for living where we live. If that was not your intent, you have my apologies for jumping to conclusions.
Now try that same stunt in downtown Boston.
Mark L.
Last edited:
Almost forgot....don't want to upset the ALL KNOWING, ALL POWERFUL police chief. I'll forfeit my rights because I don't want to get the CHIEF ANGRY.
Seriously, we've dug ourselves into this hole by allowing the act of openly-carrying to be discouraged and to be considered menacing. We need to take pro-active steps to take that stigma back. I'll wait till I'm about to move out of this State
![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
So, you'd rather insist on your rights, get the police chief angry, have him pull your LTC, confiscate your guns, ammunition, and magazines? That would be better in what way?
You think you'll win on appeal when he says he pulled your license for "suitability?"
I'm just talking out of my ass...
But basically the decisions you've made are will you exercise your rights fully at the risk of having them stripped? Or do you strip your own rights in order to maintain the illusion that your exercising them fully? ![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
Jamie
NES Member
Big Daddy 45acp
Instructor
Ummmm, K-Dub is not a guy.![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
Nor is she a person to be trifled with. Hell, she likes to shoot 500 Mags!
Also, she is NOT one to rub it in. Judging from my recent correspondence with her, she is not happy. Ecstatic is more like it!
K-Dub is a she and shes awesome!
Am I the "chap" you are referring to???
http://northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=35832
1) I prefer concealed carry to open carry.I'm just talking out of my ass...
2) If I open carry, I may well lose both my right to concealed carry and my right to own guns in MA. Furthermore, I may well be out thousands of dollars in legal fees.
What do you think you would gain by doing an open carry protest in MA? Do you honestly think you would change the laws to remove discretionary licensing?
There are states where you can do an open carry protest with little likelihood of negative consequences. In my opinion, MA is not one of them. Most people in MA are anti-gun. The judiciary is severely anti-gun. Your discretionary license can be pulled easily and it is unlikely that you would prevail in court. Police chiefs don't like controversy. An open carry protest here in MA would likely scare the sheep. Now the police chief has to do something. What do you think he will do?
I see nothing to gain and plenty to lose. If you are into the whole futile noble gesture thing, have at it. But count me out. And don't complain when you lose your license -- that would simply be the predictable outcome.
Yes, empty holster protest at the state house. I would participate.
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2008
- Messages
- 33
- Likes
- 8
Poorly organized? Maybe. Inaccurate? No. If you look at the warning in Massachusetts you'll see this:
Massachusetts is not a traditional open carry state, but it is not a crime for Class A License holders to open carry. However, it is reported that some jurisdictions will use this as an excuse to revoke permits.
As for the open car carry thing, OCDO pretty much states the same thing for TN and other states which require a license to open or concealed carry on foot and in vehicle. Their focus generally is if a person can open carry WITHOUT license. Compare this to Mississippi which is a "licensed open carry" state but allows open and concealed carry under an extended domain clause in their state statutes.
It's been a tremendously long time since I've researched Massachusetts firearms law, but unless there's been a significant change, the Mass LTCF is a license to carry firearms openly or concealed. Regardless of the fact that some jurisdictions will revoke, it is in fact still accurate to state that it is a "Licensed Open Carry" state. This is why the bolded warning above exists.
That being said, it is really unfortunate that the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court essentially ruled that there's no individual right to keep and bear arms in a 1970's court decision. This essentially was during the "height" of the collective rights crap. IIRC, that was a "Miller mutation" decision which grossly misinterpreted the Miller decision for "collective rights" and therefor destroyed the constitutional RKBA that John Adams himself wrote and would probably himself call for the judges disbarment, and possibly tar and feathering.
Since the licensing for possession of handguns is considered discretionary and revocable at whim in MA, a potential post-Heller challenge is certainly a possibility. We'll see what the Heller court says in it's decision.
Massachusetts is not a traditional open carry state, but it is not a crime for Class A License holders to open carry. However, it is reported that some jurisdictions will use this as an excuse to revoke permits.
As for the open car carry thing, OCDO pretty much states the same thing for TN and other states which require a license to open or concealed carry on foot and in vehicle. Their focus generally is if a person can open carry WITHOUT license. Compare this to Mississippi which is a "licensed open carry" state but allows open and concealed carry under an extended domain clause in their state statutes.
It's been a tremendously long time since I've researched Massachusetts firearms law, but unless there's been a significant change, the Mass LTCF is a license to carry firearms openly or concealed. Regardless of the fact that some jurisdictions will revoke, it is in fact still accurate to state that it is a "Licensed Open Carry" state. This is why the bolded warning above exists.
That being said, it is really unfortunate that the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court essentially ruled that there's no individual right to keep and bear arms in a 1970's court decision. This essentially was during the "height" of the collective rights crap. IIRC, that was a "Miller mutation" decision which grossly misinterpreted the Miller decision for "collective rights" and therefor destroyed the constitutional RKBA that John Adams himself wrote and would probably himself call for the judges disbarment, and possibly tar and feathering.
Since the licensing for possession of handguns is considered discretionary and revocable at whim in MA, a potential post-Heller challenge is certainly a possibility. We'll see what the Heller court says in it's decision.
I think that statement would much more accurately portray the situation if it said, "almost all jurisdictions" not "some jurisdictions". Saying that it is not strictly illegal to open carry in MA is one thing, but implying that it is OK to open carry in MA is entirely another. And by not saying that open carry is basically impossible in MA, you are implying it is OK. That is where the suggestions of inaccuracy are coming from.
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2008
- Messages
- 33
- Likes
- 8
The problem is that you have a chicken and an egg scenario. People have actually confirmed that SOME localities will revoke for open carry. The problem here is that no one is calling up every locality and asking the question of whether or not they would revoke.
The problem is that you're asking people to assume "just because".
Would I personally open carry in Massachusetts? Probably not because MA is a may-issue state, and until there's a post-Heller incorporation challenge to overturn Commonwealth v. Davis (1976), I personally myself would not do so.
Regardless, however, of the consequences of a may-issue revocation based on suitability on the basis of a chief's personal opinion, the law is CLEAR that LTCF holders can open or conceal carry. To state otherwise on a website that is dedicated to discussing the laws on open carry would be a canard.
Giving a great example of this is DC. OCDO's website is wrong on the subject because there's a licensing scheme there. They may not issue licenses to private civilians, but it still doesn't change the fact that the licenses exist, and you need one of those licenses in order to open or conceal carry in DC.
and your point...? You will note that I included apologies in my post if I jumped to conclusions. I am taking it easy, you need to read more carefully.
Respectfully,
Mark L.
![[popcorn]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/043.gif "Popcorn [popcorn]")
Open Carry is not a good idea no matter how you look at it. It can't help you.
If you want to open carry - become a law officer. No one needs to know that your packing heat.
If you want people to know you have a gun - wear a sign around your neck and see where that gets you.
pdm
NES Member
While I don't think people should be forced to hide that they are carrying a gun, as if it's a shameful thing or something, given the legal climate in MA, it's not a wise idea to openly carry. I'd wish for that to change, but it's a waste of time.
Without any relevant case law, so are you.
Lonnie Wilson said:
I'm sorry, but the law is far from CLEAR. It is, in fact, completely mum on the issue. It does not ever mention the difference between open and concealed carry (unlike, say NH, where the difference and requirements for each are clearly stated).
The fact that the relevant statutes say nothing, but allow for the revocation of your license due to 'suitability', and given evidence that at least some CLEOs are considering open carry not suitable (and no evidence that any CLEOs approve of the practice), I fail to see how you can possibly call the law anything even closely resembling clear.
Well, you'll be happy to note that Manchester, NH is doing it's best to clamp down on Open Carry. They've gone back to harassing people who open carry and telling certain places that their liquor license are on the line if people open carry, even if the open carriers aren't drinking. There's a meeting with the Mayor on Friday to discuss this issue.
It's because when all the soccer moms move north, that's where they congregate. They bring their culture and their imposing way of life too.
Manchester used to be an okay town until they decided to open their arms to the refugees from third world countries and illegals. Now their prostitution, drugs and crime are on the rise big time and they want to take away the citizens rights! That's just way too Massachusetts! Lynn MA did the same thing by the way along with Lawrence and Chelsea. Anyone see a pattern here? Can we connect the dots to federal grants, public housing, welfare and illegal immigration?
I find it interesting that a couple of murderers and repeat mass offenders they had up there in the past couple of years came from our inner city. Must have been up there on vacation!
Last edited:
