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OPEN CARRY NH

I dont know if I have the balls to do that, but kudos to him for doing it! I like as few people knowing im carrying as possible.
 
What, are we supposed to be patting this guy on the back or something?

First off, wearing a t-shirt that says "Free...(enter name of person here)" while open carrying is pretty retarded.

Secondly, he's on the phone the whole time, which is pretty disrespectful.

Third, he's just being a dick for reasons of principle. Yes, he has a right to open carry, yes he's only required to provide certain info, but it's just a common courtesy to oblige (within reason of course) and shows cooperation and would have ended the confrontation without all the fanfare.

I love how the guy who was totally uninvolved likened being stopped by the cops because you have a gun on your hip to being treated "like we're slaves"...riiiiiight. I wonder what response a black guy open carrying with a "Free Mumia" t-shirt on would have gotten...

Yeah, he may be on our side as far as the gun issue, but that doesn't mean we should support every idiot nutjob that would rather prove a point than use some common sense.
 
Major Blood said:
What, are we supposed to be patting this guy on the back or something?

First off, wearing a t-shirt that says "Free...(enter name of person here)" while open carrying is pretty retarded.

Secondly, he's on the phone the whole time, which is pretty disrespectful.

Third, he's just being a dick for reasons of principle. Yes, he has a right to open carry, yes he's only required to provide certain info, but it's just a common courtesy to oblige (within reason of course) and shows cooperation and would have ended the confrontation without all the fanfare.

I love how the guy who was totally uninvolved likened being stopped by the cops because you have a gun on your hip to being treated "like we're slaves"...riiiiiight. I wonder what response a black guy open carrying with a "Free Mumia" t-shirt on would have gotten...

Yeah, he may be on our side as far as the gun issue, but that doesn't mean we should support every idiot nutjob that would rather prove a point than use some common sense.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure how the t-shirt thing combined with carrying a gun makes him retarded. I'm betting 99% of the people on the street don't even know who that guy is, (I don't) or pay too much attention to t-shirts like that (I don't). I usually figure there's a joke to them I'm too stupid to "get."

He was on the phone because he was recording the encounter, a prudent move, IMHO. I agree the technology certainly could have been better. From reading his account, he didn't know the video camera guy was going to show up.

He was stopped and detained without reason. There was no "articulable suspicion that crime is afoot," (the legal standard for a Terry stop.) Openly carrying a weapon where legal does not constitute suspicion that a crime has been committed, is being committed, or is about to be committed (the legal definition of "crime afoot" from the Terry decision.) Guy was just walking down the street, minding his own business. When he was asked "You 'zere. Your Papers!" he calmly declined. Very politely, I thought.

Perhaps you've spent too much time in MA, where being hassled is more common, and facilitating it is deemed "cooperation."

Now the guy jumping around in the background...that's a whole different matter. Neither calm, nor polite, and I wouldn't have been surprised to see him eat cement when he stuck his hand in the face of that MPD officer standing there.
 
The only things i found rather amusing were when the cop tells them they can't stand around on the sidewalk, yet they were the ones who stopped them on the sidewalk to begin with. The other was when they tried to cite them for putting up signs and the cop is about to tear it down, then they find out its for a HS carwash and they leave it up there....
 
The shirt? Uhh, hello, first amendment? I doubt anyone even
knows who the guy on the shirt is anyways.

I do think him yacking on the phone while the officer is trying
to talk to him is a bit rude, at a minimum. If he wanted to record
everything he could have used a cell with a remote mic or
something. I think it's kind of difficult to get someone to
see your viewpoint if you're appearing rude to them.

The guy prancing around? I don't think he really helped the
cause much, jumping around like a moonbat generally doesn't
help unless you're talking to other moonbats. [laugh]

I do have to agree, however, that there probably is no real good
reason for the whole "papers please" bit. Either open carry is
legal or it is not. If the guy wasn't threatening anyone or
didn't appear to be engaged in criminal activity, I don't see what
the big deal is. The PD is probably taking that info to make it
seem like they're "doing something".

The grand scheme of things here is "much to do about nothing".

Would I do this? Hell no... simply because I don't like being
harassed...even if my activity is legitimate. So in a place like Manch,
I would carry concealed and not cause a stir to begin
with. This is no different than not carrying around a pair of
bolt cutters or a large sledgehammer everywhere you go, just
because its legal. [laugh]

Question is, does this guy have a right to open carry? He sure
does, and him doing it is not necessarily a bad thing. Problem
is it might not necessarily be a smart thing... while manch is
relatively safe, I would wager a fair guess that the authorities
get a lot more malicious "man with a gun calls" than they get
benign ones like this guy....

I guess my point with that is, what works in some parts of the
US (eg, like open carry in large parts of arizona) is going to be
percieved as "abnormal" in a place like manchester and cause
lots of bleating sheep and tied up law enforcement resources.


-Mike
 
One thing I should add.... while this really isn't applicable in the
case of NH, because NH has (what I would consider) pretty reasonable
CCW laws, sometimes this form of civil disobedience
has merit. A lot of people, for instance, whine at VCDL for their
tactics, but they're undoubtedly one of the most successful grassroots
gun rights orgs in the country.... course, when they
open carry, its because the law doesn't allow them to conceal; eg,
in restaraunts that serve alcohol, etc. Their disobedience is only
conducted to highlight the stupidity inherent to the laws
themselves.


-Mike
 
Major Blood said:
What, are we supposed to be patting this guy on the back or something?

First off, wearing a t-shirt that says "Free...(enter name of person here)" while open carrying is pretty retarded.

Secondly, he's on the phone the whole time, which is pretty disrespectful.

Third, he's just being a dick for reasons of principle. Yes, he has a right to open carry, yes he's only required to provide certain info, but it's just a common courtesy to oblige (within reason of course) and shows cooperation and would have ended the confrontation without all the fanfare.

I love how the guy who was totally uninvolved likened being stopped by the cops because you have a gun on your hip to being treated "like we're slaves"...riiiiiight. I wonder what response a black guy open carrying with a "Free Mumia" t-shirt on would have gotten...

Yeah, he may be on our side as far as the gun issue, but that doesn't mean we should support every idiot nutjob that would rather prove a point than use some common sense.
Click to expand...


Put another way: you may have the right to act like a dork, but that doesn't mean that you are obliged to exercise it at all times.
 
Although he appeared to be completely legal I think he tactics are unhelpful. I wouldn't want to give anyone more fodder to be used against law abiding gun carrying citizens. I would have gladly given my information to a LEO ans explain what I knew about the laws and moved on. This just causes animosity and a reason for some to push for changes.
 
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I'd bet that most folks who carry firearms openly do not use any sort of a security retention holster, such as many police officers carry.

I'd also bet that these same "open carry is my right" folks also have no proficiency in firearms retention, takeaway, and recovery techniques, and no appreciation of how easily the can be forcibly disarmed.

Your firearm is only yours so long as you can keep it.

Others can do whatever they want, but I believe that a high quality firearm carefully concealed in a high quality holster makes far more sense than the false sense of security an easily-snatched openly carried pistol provides.

Open carry is a magnet for cops and criminals. I don't want to attract the attention of either.
 
Lugnut said:
Although he appeared to be completely legal I think he tactics are unhelpful. I wouldn't want to give anyone more fodder to be used against law abiding gun carrying citizens. I would have gladly given my information to a LEO ans explain what I knew about the laws and moved on. This just causes animosity and a reason for some to push for changes.
Click to expand...
For the sake of discussion, can I ask where this acquiescence ends? If the police officer had asked to search you, would you have "gladly" allowed that? If not, you might be giving him "fodder to be used against law abiding gun carrying citizens." If you had been in your car, and he asked to search that, would you have "gladly" allowed that? Your home? If you have nothing to hide, then why not "gladly" give in to any invasion of your privacy?

I'm trying to get a feel for how far you're willing to "gladly" bend over, and where you draw the line. It's probably different for all of us. Some would say, "Just cooperate and let him search your car. He's just doing his job!" This was a guy stopped on the street and told "Your Papers!" He said, very politely "No." He obviously drew the line much farther into the "free zone," and I respect him for it, and for how he did it.
 
Cross-X said:
I'd bet that most folks who carry firearms openly do not use any sort of a security retention holster, such as many police officers carry.

I'd also bet that these same "open carry is my right" folks also have no proficiency in firearms retention, takeaway, and recovery techniques, and no appreciation of how easily the can be forcibly disarmed.

Your firearm is only yours so long as you can keep it.

Others can do whatever they want, but I believe that a high quality firearm carefully concealed in a high quality holster makes far more sense than the false sense of security an easily-snatched openly carried pistol provides.

Open carry is a magnet for cops and criminals. I don't want to attract the attention of either.
Click to expand...

Open carry is common in many parts of the country. It's practically the state sport of VA. You made an assertion that it's a magnet for criminals. Could you give us any examples of how often firearms are taken from open carrying citizens? If it's the "magnet" you reference, then there should be numerous examples of citizens being disarmed by criminals. Are there, or is this "internet wisdom?"
 
MagnumMike said:
God bless America![wink]

I mean no offense; I support the right to open carry but don't think it is a good idea from a tactical or safety point of view.
Click to expand...

I took no offense! I just meant there are many opinions on this, and no absolute "right" or "wrong," I think we agree on that.
 
Cross-X said:
I'd bet that most folks who carry firearms openly do not use any sort of a security retention holster, such as many police officers carry.
Click to expand...

This is the most important thing if you do choose to open carry. I was always taught that a CCW holster should be "open top" but I still think about getting a holster with a thumb snap "just in case".
 
ScottS said:
Open carry is common in many parts of the country. It's practically the state sport of VA. You made an assertion that it's a magnet for criminals. Could you give us any examples of how often firearms are taken from open carrying citizens? If it's the "magnet" you reference, then there should be numerous examples of citizens being disarmed by criminals. Are there, or is this "internet wisdom?"
Click to expand...


No, not just "internet wisdom".

If you have ever read the book "Street Survival", a seminal textbook for police officers, you'd have seen the stills taken from surveillance videos of convicts practicing firerarms takeaway techniques in the prison yard during exercise periods.

Losing your firearm to a violent criminal is a scary idea, but something to be taken into consideration when deciding to engage in the "state sport of Virginia".
 
ScottS said:
For the sake of discussion, can I ask where this acquiescence ends? If the police officer had asked to search you, would you have "gladly" allowed that? If not, you might be giving him "fodder to be used against law abiding gun carrying citizens." If you had been in your car, and he asked to search that, would you have "gladly" allowed that? Your home? If you have nothing to hide, then why not "gladly" give in to any invasion of your privacy?

I'm trying to get a feel for how far you're willing to "gladly" bend over, and where you draw the line. It's probably different for all of us. Some would say, "Just cooperate and let him search your car. He's just doing his job!" This was a guy stopped on the street and told "Your Papers!" He said, very politely "No." He obviously drew the line much farther into the "free zone," and I respect him for it, and for how he did it.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't have a problem giving him my IDs. No searches, I'd just want him to know that I am a legit law abiding citizen with credentials ( I have nothing to hide if my person was searched fwiw- it happens all the time at the airport by the way). The car and home are not something I'd concede in. However.. I've been pulled over and asked for my license without an issue many times. Matter of fact one time I was driving an unregistered car unknowingly. I was courteous and polite and ended up driving away to the registry without a ticket or worse getting my car impounded. Being a dick is never a good thing IMO. Besides, as much as we think everyone (LEO included) are out to do no good for us... I'm not always so mistrusting. Naive? Maybe... but I am what I am.
 
I'm a firm believer in concealed carry ONLY, with the following exceptions:
- Around your own home/property,
- At a gun club/range,
- When you are amongst other gun-owning friends,
- Or when in such places that concealed carry is prohibited by law and open carry is the only legal option.

I open carried in a police uniform for ~17 years and most of those years we didn't have retention holsters. Since we had to buy all our own gear, none of us bought retention holsters until the chief mandated it. I was always looking over my shoulder and never comfortable with others around me unless they were fellow officers.

We took one police academy class in weapon retention and it was a real eye-opener. Since I was in the hospital after an appendectomy when I was supposed to take this class as part of my R/I Academy, I made it up by attending the equivalent class given to all FT POs. I distinctly remember meeting the Harvard Police Chief (this was in the 1980s) who was a very tall, slender, middle aged gentleman and was carrying a snubbie in an open-top typical off-duty type holster. Bet he didn't hold onto that gun for more than 5 seconds during the class. I couldn't watch him as I had my hands full partnered up with a FT MBTA PO (real tough dude).

We were taught in the Academy (and I've met/known a few guys that worked Corrections) that thugs practice disarming officers in the prison yards (corroborating what C-X stated above). It is REAL EASY to do and our first natural reaction is to do things that basically "hands the gun" to the perp!

If I were stopped somewhere, I would gladly offer up my ID to any officer who was inquiring. My answer to a car/house search is "certainly officer, anything to help . . . just get a warrant and I'll wait here for you". No warrant? No search!!
 
I look at open carry exactly the same way I look at carrying a Glock: Hey, I wouldn't do it, but I certainly support the right of other people to, and I tend to be very skeptical of the "puts you at a disadvantage" or "reflects poorly on gun owners" argument.

As far as the ID, it's all a matter of degree, I guess. I know a number of people off the top of my head (my wife included) who would consent to a search in a heartbeat, on the theory that "I've nothing to hide and it's his/her job," yet everyone here is "ID yes, but never a search!" Some people have a greater tolerance for invasion into their personal lives than others.

I consider the "Papers!" command no different than "Open that trunk and let me see what's inside." If the law compels it, I comply. If not, "Am I free to go? Have a nice day." I'm not sure why I should consider infringement on my Fourth Amendment rights any less vile than infringement on my Second Amendment rights.
 

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