Open Carry MA Experiences

[BigGreen2000]

Maybe 4 or 5 years ago, I was coming off the CT river after a day of shad fishing. I think it was the Chicopee boat ramp. Anyway, there was this dude getting his boat onto his trailor, shirtless, with only a bathing suit and sandals. He had an over-the-shoulder holster with a 1911 in it, O.C. That was a little odd!

 

[headednorth]

Maybe 4 or 5 years ago, I was coming off the CT river after a day of shad fishing. I think it was the Chicopee boat ramp. Anyway, there was this dude getting his boat onto his trailor, shirtless, with only a bathing suit and sandals. He had an over-the-shoulder holster with a 1911 in it, O.C. That was a little odd!

Must have ended up with some unique tan lines.

 

[uwaeve]

Only in uniform for me

 

[Beretta92FS]

 

[45collector]

I would not open carry even if I lived in a state where you didn't have to worry about suitability and all that crap. I want the element of surprise on my side at all times.
Anybody that wants to though, should not have to fear losing their stuff over doing so, no matter what state they live in.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Maybe 4 or 5 years ago, I was coming off the CT river after a day of shad fishing. I think it was the Chicopee boat ramp. Anyway, there was this dude getting his boat onto his trailor, shirtless, with only a bathing suit and sandals. He had an over-the-shoulder holster with a 1911 in it, O.C. That was a little odd!

Standard practice in case he accidentally hooks a shark.

 

[Alex9661]

I had a conversation about OCing with some guys few years ago at an informal match when one of them produced a sheet of paper. It was a handout from a cop in-service that described a hypothetical situation with a guy OCing in a diner and a waitress calling cops on him. The correct action for the responding cops was to check the guy's LTC and then explain to the waitress that he was carrying legally. Hard stop. That was definitely after Simkin because Simkin was mentioned in a conversation, in a handout, or both.

I should've taken a pic of the handout but you know everything about hindsight

 

[daekken]

Other than Monadnock shoots/being at ranges I don't think I've ever seen a non-LEO open carrying. Never done it myself (other than USPSA matches which doesn't count) and probably wouldn't unless hiking, and even then it would probably be (poorly) under a t-shirt, but OWB.

 

[quinnjalan]

I would never open carry in MA except at the range and only for USPSA practice. Totally not worth the conversation. I once flashed in of all places Concord MA, was finishing up breakfast with my wife and toddler and I bent over to grab the baby carrier. I felt my back get cold and instantly realized what happened. I stood up, fixed my shirt, got the kid settled in the carrier and upon leaving turned to the couple behind us, mind you her mouth was still on the floor and now she was checking out my 12 o'clock area! I said, enjoy your breakfast and strolled out like I owned the place. I'm fairly certain they talked about me for days! OMG did you see that.....he had a gun with a clip thingie...

 

[ProGun]

Only place I've flashed by mistake was in a Chick-fil-A. My shirt rode up over my gun and I realized it walking to the bathroom. Fortunately, I happened to be in Jacksonville, FL so no big deal (and I have a FL CWP, too).

 

[LoginName]

On the bright side, many people are oblivious and won’t notice. On the down side, if a nervous Nellie type sees your gun, they will call the police who will likely come screaming in in force to a “man with a gun” call — at best, they will ruin your whole day. At worst, your police chief will revoke your license on grounds of being unsuitable and you will spend thousands of dollars and years trying to get it back.

I knew a guy at my gun club who had a rather unpleasant experience. He was shopping in the Galleria Mall in Cambridge. Apparently his bomber-style jacked had ridden up enough for someone to see his holster pointing out beneath it — not the gun, just the holster. The first time he knew something was amiss was when he was suddenly surrounded by four Cambridge police officers.

Then there's this kind of shit to deal with...

Gun control groups accused of ‘swatting’ open-carry permit holders, putting lives at risk

Second Amendment groups are accusing the gun control lobby of putting law-abiding owners of firearms in danger by urging people to call the police on anyone carrying a gun in public.

As more states relax rules about open-carrying of guns, the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence has taken to social media to urge the public to assume gun-toters are trouble, and to call the cops on anyone they feel may be a threat.

“If you see someone carrying a firearm in public—openly or concealed—and have ANY doubts about their intent, call 911 immediately and ask police to come to the scene,” the group wrote on its widely followed Facebook page. “Never put your safety, or the safety of your loved ones, at the mercy of weak gun laws that arm individuals in public with little or no criminal and/or mental health screening.”

That approach, according to a blog post by Ohio-based Buckeye Firearms Association, could give rise to needless, tense confrontations between police and gun owners. The association and other similar groups liken the tactic to “swatting,” or the act of tricking an emergency service into dispatching responders based on a false report. Many online harassment campaigns have been known to participate in the practice.

Gun control groups accused of ‘swatting’ open-carry permit holders, putting lives at risk

VA Open Carrier SWATted
Moms Demand Action (MDA) types have threatened to make false 911 calls whenever they see anyone open carrying and have encouraged others to do so. In at least one case (though probably not MDA-related), an innocent man was killed by police as a direct response to false allegations in a 911 call. Last week, in Virginia, an open carrier was falsely accused of robbing a 7-11, in a 911 call. Fortunately, he was not harmed . . .

VA Open Carrier SWATted - The Truth About Guns

 

[M1911]

There is a difference between calling the police and calmly describing a man that you see with a holstered gun and SWATing someone. I’m not condoning the former, but we shouldn’t overly dramaticize most of these situations.

 

[Garys]

Even though the Texas open carry people won legislatively, they made some enemies in the pro gun community in Texas. Mostly the small number who insisted on carrying ARs openly while advocating for being able to carry handguns openly.

I'm not a huge proponent of open carry, but the one thing it does do is remove the risk of being charged if you inadvertently expose a firearm.

I think most people don't notice if someone is open carrying here in MA because most people aren't looking for it. They aren't even looking for people concealed carrying, for that matter.

I think it's poor public relations. it doesn't help the pro gun issue at all, in fact I believe it hurts our position and cements an anti's way of thinking to beyond changing. I cringe also when I see people at rallies with an ar strapped on their backs. it doesn't help.

 

[whacko]

Only timemive ever seen open carry in mass was last summer at an ice cream stand in amesbury. Guy in the line with his kids had a 1911 open carried. Definitely did not appear to be a cop.....nobody said shit. Nobody cared.....nobody died lol

 

[namedpipes]

There is a difference between calling the police and calmly describing a man that you see with a holstered gun and SWATing someone. I’m not condoning the former, but we shouldn’t overly dramaticize most of these situations.

The act of carrying a holstered firearm is not threatening and therefore should NEVER be cause to call the police. That call suggests to the police that something is wrong and they arrive already primed for trouble. So there is NO difference between calling the police and calmly describing a man that you see with a holstered gun and SWATing someone.

Same person, carrying a holstered gun but acting erratic, scratching at non existent bugs crawling around under his skin and perhaps making mewling noises, THAT there is an example of when you should call the police (while you and your loved ones exit the area).

 

[M1911]

The act of carrying a holstered firearm is not threatening and therefore should NEVER be cause to call the police. That call suggests to the police that something is wrong and they arrive already primed for trouble. So there is NO difference between calling the police and calmly describing a man that you see with a holstered gun and SWATing someone.

Nope, you are still misrepresenting the issue.

In the typical swating, someone fakes their phone number to be that of their target and calls up the local police of their target. They then claim that there is a deadly force situation — they’ve shot someone or they are going to shoot someone or there is a bad guy in the house who is shooting people, etc. It is a call that doesn’t just cause a police response, but actually gets the police to send a SWAT team (hence the term SWATing)

That is a different, and higher risk situation, than calling the police to say you saw someone with a holstered gun. Yes, both could go badly wrong, but the SWATing situation is worse.

What the mothers against guns groups are recommending (calling the police if you see someone open carrying) is wrong, no question. But it isn’t SWATing and we shouldn’t exaggerate in that fashion.

 

[namedpipes]

Nope, you are still misrepresenting the issue.

In the typical swating, someone fakes their phone number to be that of their target and calls up the local police of their target. They then claim that there is a deadly force situation — they’ve shot someone or they are going to shoot someone or there is a bad guy in the house who is shooting people, etc. It is a call that doesn’t just cause a police response, but actually gets the police to send a SWAT team (hence the term SWATing)

That is a different, and higher risk situation, than calling the police to say you saw someone with a holstered gun. Yes, both could go badly wrong, but the SWATing situation is worse.

What the mothers against guns groups are recommending (calling the police if you see someone open carrying) is wrong, no question. But it isn’t SWATing and we shouldn’t exaggerate in that fashion.

I'm not misrepresenting it. A call to the police is to report something concerning. Not to idly mention, hey, the grass is green on the town common. So pretty.

When police respond, they are expecting trouble. They are VASTLY unlikely to know that the caller was calm and just mentioning as a possible item of interest. The officer in the cruiser gets a call along the lines of "There's a report of a man with a gun at the corner of Smith St and Wesson Ave."

It is no different from swatting in concept. Possibly in degree, but NOT in concept.

 

[M1911]

I'm not misrepresenting it. A call to the police is to report something concerning. Not to idly mention, hey, the grass is green on the town common. So pretty.

When police respond, they are expecting trouble. They are VASTLY unlikely to know that the caller was calm and just mentioning as a possible item of interest. The officer in the cruiser gets a call along the lines of "There's a report of a man with a gun at the corner of Smith St and Wesson Ave."

It is no different from swatting in concept. Possibly in degree, but NOT in concept.

Not "possibly in degree." It is very different in degree. Man carrying a holstered gun versus a fake active shooting situation.

These are swatting:

Mr. Barriss called the police in Wichita, telling them that he had killed his father, was holding two family members at gunpoint, had doused his house in gasoline and was contemplating suicide.

On December 22, Barriss contacted the Calgary police and pretended that he’d shot his father and was holding his mother and brother hostage inside Vannatta’s apartment.

“Um, I’m at one, zero, thirty-three West McCormick Street,” the man replied. “I just shot my dad in the head. ’Cause he was arguing with my mom, and it was getting way out of control.”

“Is that a house?” the operator asked.

“Yeah, it’s a house. My mom and my brother are really scared right now, so I’m just pointing a gun at them and holding them in the closet right now.”

“And what’s your name? What’s your name, hon?”

“Ryan.”

The caller went on to say that he hadn’t meant to kill his dad and that he was now thinking about lighting the house on fire and committing suicide. Seconds after he made that last statement, the line went dead.

The first 911 call came at 4.30pm. The caller told dispatchers that a man, woman, and boy had been shot and another child was being held hostage.

 

[drgrant]

Likely he will say, I gave you a CC license so you can CC and I don't have to deal with scared babies calling me about you OC'ing. Please do that (most likely answer, and my chiefs answer)

I get the point of your post here, but in MA there is no such thing as a "concealed carry license". It's a license to carry, period. There is no method dictated under the law in any circumstance. This state is pretty retarded but there was never any distinction under MGL wrt "concealment" with the exception of the stuff that applied to the now long defunct LTC-B license class. (LTC-Bs could not carry a handgun loaded and concealed simultaneously or somesuch).

-Mike

 

[namedpipes]

Not "possibly in degree." It is very different in degree. Man carrying a holstered gun versus a fake active shooting situation.

These are swatting:

Bottom line is, the officer gets a call saying "check out the man with a gun". Your "calm" caller just forced an encounter with an officer that is primed to see a problem where there is none.

If you don't see that as a problem I just don't know what to say. It's mind boggling that you're dismissing it as irrelevant.

 

[buketduder]

While it might not make sense here due to licensing/BS laws, in other states it does. An example is I have a friend in Nevada(originally from CT)...he doesn't have and refuses to get a CCW..so he has to open carry everywhere to legally carry.....he says he has never had any issues out there at all with anyone...or in Utah/Arizona/Colorado where he open carry's as well (and has to be legal except arizona)

 

[drgrant]

There is a difference between calling the police and calmly describing a man that you see with a holstered gun and SWATing someone. I’m not condoning the former, but we shouldn’t overly dramaticize most of these situations.

I partially disagree, there's still a level of malice AND stupidity, on the part of cop calling moonbats, period.

The fact that a bunch of the population have defective groupthink mentality about firearms should not hold everyone else hostage.

I mean lets face facts here, if mr. Bandit had been carrying a sledgehammer, a pitchfork, or even a machete in a holster, calmly in and out of that
house he was at, do you think that mary/joe moonbatl douchebag kravitz hairnet would have called the cops?

The reason they called the cops is obvious. They see the "man with the gun" as a "problem" and they want the cops to show up and "get rid of the
problem. " He wasn't banging on his friends windows with his gun or something "interesting" like that.

I don't expect laypersons to be detectives but absent other behavior, these calls are based on an irrational fear of guns, not concern over potential
criminal activities. These calls are like 10 steps below "I see two people in the yard arguing, and one has a gun on his belt".

This also makes me wonder how many times hunters get the cops called on them, but during the season in rural communities the cops just
blow them off. Maybe they need to start blowing off mary hairnet that can't come up with anything but "bbbbbut he has a gun!" These people should
be prosecuted for misusing emergency services if they dialed 911, amongst other things. I just don't think the dispatchers have the training or
want to make the effort to gently interrogate the callers. "Ma'am so this man with the gun, what is he doing with it?" etc. Also a BOLO, that's still just
mind numbing.

I agree that "swatting" is something else, that's clearly over the top malicious (basically, it's orchestrating a potential manslaughter, murder, or assault by manipulating the police) and full retard, but my point is mary hairnet/kravitz not liking guns and calling the cops on you is still on the same line of horseshit (abusing public
resources for their own desires) just on the lower end of the scale.

-Mike

 

[M1911]

Bottom line is, the officer gets a call saying "check out the man with a gun". Your "calm" caller just forced an encounter with an officer that is primed to see a problem where there is none.

If you don't see that as a problem I just don't know what to say. It's mind boggling that you're dismissing it as irrelevant.

Now you are misrepresented (or have misread) what I've posted:

What the mothers against guns groups are recommending (calling the police if you see someone open carrying) is wrong, no question. But it isn’t SWATing and we shouldn’t exaggerate in that fashion.

There is a difference between calling the police and calmly describing a man that you see with a holstered gun and SWATing someone. I’m not condoning the former, but we shouldn’t overly dramaticize most of these situations.

What the mothers against guns are recommending is morally wrong. It absolutely does create a risky situation.

But it is very different from SWATting, which involves faking an active shooter situation. That is far more likely to result in a tragedy.

 

[M1911]

I partially disagree, there's still a level of malice AND stupidity, on the part of cop calling moonbats, period.

Yes, it is malicious and stupid and could result in a tragedy. But it is simply incorrect to call it swatting. That is the point that I seem unable to communicate. Swatting -- convincing police there is an active shooter situation that requires a SWAT team -- is far, far worse.

 

[namedpipes]

It's a distinction without a difference. The calm caller (who actually more than likely sounds frantic) is no different from the basement dweller that swatted the guy that gave him a wedgie.

Perhaps we could call it "Switting" in honor of everyone's favorite Moonbat, Loretta Swit.

 

[BostonVI]

I OC'd at Fields Corner once. Got a slice of pizza, then went back to the range.

 

[45collector]

What the mothers against guns are recommending is morally wrong. It absolutely does create a risky situation.

They don't see it that way. They think it's their civic duty to report anything they see as a threat. Any anyone who carries a gun is a threat in their eyes. :/

 

[Rob Boudrie]

We should organize an open carry at the beach while picking up garbage ! Who's with me ?

Just make sure you are more than 500ft from Logan or avoid stepping on the surface of the ocean.

There was also that situation where that attorney in Springfield got relieved of his gun and LTC but was never actually charged for anything... I don't think his LTC was ever actually suspended either just confiscated by the Rambo cop that stopped him. If I remember correctly he eventually got his gun back too but only after legal action.... the bottom line was that they had no leg to stand on, a guy walking down the street with a suit on that wasn't buttoned...

I believe his LTC and gun were taken because the officer did not accept them as "facially valid". They were returned when he showed up at the PD. The legal action was his suit against the police for not accepting his LTC as facially valid (ie, accepting it as valid absent direct confirmation with the state or issuing authority) and temporarily confiscating his sidearm. He lost that case, but as far as I know, his loss of the gun was very temporary and return did not involve court action.

 

[drgrant]

It's a distinction without a difference. The calm caller (who actually more than likely sounds frantic) is no different from the basement dweller that swatted the guy that gave him a wedgie.

Well, the big distinction I can see is that with swatting they are trying to bring serious harm to someone, or at least reliably get a cops gun pointed at the
target, and it uses a thick level of fraud and deception to accomplish.

Now, if mary hairnet LIES about what the person is doing with the gun, then yes, that could certainly qualify as swatting as far as I'm concerned. Those people should be prosecuted no different than someone swatting.

Example: OC guy gets into a mild argument with his neighbor about grass clippings or some horseshit, guy disengages the converstaion and goes back inside his
house. Shitty neighbor calls the cops and claims OC guy was "waving his gun around". That shit is a level above and beyond the typical mary hairnet "vaguebooking" police call.

Of course one element we're not discussing here is the connective tissue, in the respect that PDs are "over responding" to a typical mary hairnet call to begin with, the fact that a BOLO got put out on Mr. bandit for an innocuous activity seems to tell me this is a problem.

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

I believe his LTC and gun were taken because the officer did not accept them as "facially valid". They were returned when he showed up at the PD. The legal action was his suit against the police for not accepting his LTC as valid and temporarily confiscating his sidearm. He lost that case, but as far as I know, his loss of the gun was very temporary and return did not involve court action.

My memory of this incident is fuzzy because its been at least 10 years... thanks for the correction.

-Mike