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One room cabin solar power ?

F

fubar

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One of my Wish List projects is to be able to run a few LED lights , a car stereo , and maybe a charger receptacle in my little 16x24 off grid cabin. Some day a tiny water pump for a narrow 50' well. I get by with oil & propane lanterns , battery powered radio.

When I poke around the inter web I find hugely oversized systems that cost thousands. I kind of imagine , a panel , a deep cell battery or two , and a little panel with less than six 12v lines out. But I know it's more complicated than that.

Anyone know of a place that sells kits like this ? Or do I really need to learn about Everything and build my own ...?
 
Budget?

Ironic since you live in Marblehead: look at sailboat-size systems, they are exactly what you are looking for. But for a house instead of getting deep cycle batteries I think I'd go for a UPS. You will see sailboats with small windmill generators as well.

I know just who to ask for a land-based system, give me a few days.
 
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look for marine/rv setups. I'm guessing you're not going to be using it all the time so, but demand would likely outpace production while you're at the cabin so you'll probably want to invest in storage more than panels.
 
PM: GomerPyle

the tough item will be the well pump. they need a high startup current. there are pumps for solar apps, but they are expensive.
 
Try AltE.com. Go to the off grid solar kits link. They have small systems that you can grow from if your needs change. They also provide design assistance. They are in MA.
Also, I recommend that you consider a slo-start pump when selecting the water pump. That is, if you're thinking of 120/240VAC.
 
fubar said:
I kind of imagine , a panel , a deep cell battery or two , and a little panel with less than six 12v lines out. But I know it's more complicated than that.
Click to expand...

It doesn't have to be much more complicated than that. You need a charge regulator between the panel(s) and the battery, and if anything you are using is 120/240VAC you will need an inverter. That's all the components you need.

In order to size the panel and batteries, you need to figure out how much power you expect to use. Obviously you need the battery to last through the night, but you need to consider that not every day will be sunny and depending on your location, you may not receive much direct sunlight. This means more panels and more batteries.

From an electrical standpoint, watts are the same, regardless of AC/DC, 12V, 120V, 240V, etc. but when you convert 12VDC to 120VAC for example, you have inefficiency in the inverter that needs to be accounted for. Ideally if your batteries are 12V, as many appliances as possible should be as well to avoid using an inverter. But to get the same power at 12VDC you need 10 times the current as 120VAC, which means you need much larger wires.

I don't think a water pump is too big a deal, as it won't run all the time. Using a pressure tank or a tank in the attic with a gravity feed to the sink will reduce the number of times the pump is used as well. If it is an AC pump, you will need a good size inverter. You may be able to find a DC pump as well.
 
Here's a super easy setup to get you started:

Bill of Materials:
+ Morningstar SunSaver 20 (Amazon $100)
+ Deep cycle marine battery (Walmart $80)
+ 100 watt 12 volt solar panel (Amazon $150)
+ Misc: Battery box, cables, fuses, wire etc
+ Optional: Rigid 100W inverter (Home Depot $30). Its got USB ports and an AC outlet on it. Its not true sine wave but works with Apple AC adapters which are finicky

Wire it like this:
20L-V3.png


What can you power (assuming an 100AH+ battery):
+ iPad, tablets, phone, other USB charged/powered devices (70-100 hours)
+ Laptop (5 or more full charges)
+ 8W LED light (100+ hours)
+ Small 19 inch LED TV (30-50 Hours but depends on TV)
 
I just grabbed one of these solar panels: http://www.harborfreight.com/15-watt-12-volt-solar-panel-96418.html
and one of these regulators: http://www.harborfreight.com/7-amp-solar-charge-regulator-96728.html
and connected to a DieHard Deep Cycle/RV Battery in my truck camper.
I am hoping it will keep the battery charged so that I can charge 2 smartphones and 1 tablet, run a propane fridge (uses some dc) and the overhead lights for 4 days.
I have a 2nd, backup battery, just in case: http://www.altestore.com/store/Deep...Sealed-Gel-Battery-similar-to-MU1-SLDG/p8049/
We will see (or not[grin]) and I will report back.
 
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VTHunter said:
Try AltE.com. Go to the off grid solar kits link. They have small systems that you can grow from if your needs change. They also provide design assistance. They are in MA. //
Click to expand...
That was who I was thinking of.

I have a 15 watt panel we used to charge a boat battery: one that small does not need a charge controller.
 
Artie said:
I just grabbed one of these solar panels: http://www.harborfreight.com/15-watt-12-volt-solar-panel-96418.html
and one of these regulators: http://www.harborfreight.com/7-amp-solar-charge-regulator-96728.html
and connected to a DieHard Deep Cycle/RV Battery in my truck camper.
I am hoping it will keep the battery charged so that I can charge 2 smartphones and 1 tablet, run a propane fridge (uses some dc) and the overhead lights for 4 days. We will see and I will report back.
Click to expand...

Those types of panels (thin film) are the least productive for the amount of space they take up. It is about a 4 to 1 ratio as compared to cell based panels. They also have a much shorter life span.

If you are handy at all with a soldering iron, cell based panels can be made pretty cheaply.
 
Chet0729 said:
Those types of panels (thin film) are the least productive for the amount of space they take up. It is about a 4 to 1 ratio as compared to cell based panels. They also have a much shorter life span
Click to expand...
Now you tell me[sad2]
Seriously, thanks for the input. I got the stuff cheap and will just lay it on the roof of the camper, no mounting or long term exposure to the elements. If I go deeper into solar, I will do some research.
 
Artie said:
Now you tell me[sad2]
Seriously, thanks for the input. I got the stuff cheap and will just lay it on the roof of the camper, no mounting or long term exposure to the elements. If I go deeper into solar, I will do some research.
Click to expand...
I did a lot of investigation into solar a year or so ago, still have not done anything yet but I did learn alot.
here is a good link to information on the different types of panel technology
http://energyinformative.org/best-solar-panel-monocrystalline-polycrystalline-thin-film/
What you bought will work fine, just takes up more real estate to generate the same power.
 
I have a camp up north just like yours.I put on a gutter to a raised 55 gal plastic drum for water.harbor freight 45 watt solar panels with 2 batts from my trucks.put new ones it trucks,any ways it runs lights,dvd with flat screen,they are low guality panels,I found some nice mono panel.100 watt systems with controler around 300 bucks,going to get them next,ck out the different type of panels,mono most exp,but highest output per space needed,all info on the web
 
I was curious and got in touch with my friend at AltE. They can hook you up with everything from the solar panel to wiring, charge controller, batteries, and even a pump. Pretty cool, I guess this is a common use of solar energy. I can send her contact info if you want, PM me.
 
Take a look at the 400ci V8 generator I had when I used to camp on the beach with a truck camper. It would provide all the AC I needed and charge the batteries. I also had a 1500w inverter to run directly off the dual set of batteries. No need for solar for the amount of time I needed it. Solar panels would make an attractive item for the individuals in remote area's to strip off your roof, and give a good indication of what you have to loot inside.

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/255364-Chevy-400-ci-small-block-with-53k-miles
 
1776 said:
//Solar panels would make an attractive item for the individuals in remote area's to strip off your roof, and give a good indication of what you have to loot inside.//
Click to expand...
The panel he's talking about is around 2'x4'. I hardly think that is going to make the cabin a more attractive target than the cabin itself, and also gives him the option of powering a security system.

Now, for the electrified fence. [rockon]
 
garandman said:
The panel he's talking about is around 2'x4'. I hardly think that is going to make the cabin a more attractive target than the cabin itself, and also gives him the option of powering a security system.

Now, for the electrified fence. [rockon]
Click to expand...

They'll steal the security system too! The local PD's know who's doing it, and do nothing about it. Talk to the people who are moving out of remote northern area's because of their property being stripped.

Contact this guy

http://boston.craigslist.org/nos/tls/4632035338.html
 
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Thank you. Everyone , I really appreciate the input , and advice.

Didn't mean to do a hit n run post , but I was on my way out the door to the cabin as I posted this. I got back a few hours ago.

The wealth of info of this group of people and willingness to share is amazing.
 
fubar said:
Thank you. Everyone , I really appreciate the input , and advice.

Didn't mean to do a hit n run post , but I was on my way out the door to the cabin as I posted this. I got back a few hours ago.

The wealth of info of this group of people and willingness to share is amazing.
Click to expand...

I'll be curious what you install; I hope to eventually install something similar in a small cabin that doesn't exist yet (hopefully it will next year). My needs sound similar... LED lights, power for electronics, and occasional use of a well pump. It should be pretty simple to power except for the well pump (for the well that doesn't exist yet); I'm expecting to have a dug well put in about 60 feet below the cabin location, and have to pump it up to some storage barrels, then gravity feed it into the cabin.
 
listen to the 'sizing a solar system' podcast near the bottom of the page on www.solar1234.com

If you haven't checked out LED lights you really should. You can get perfectly adequate LED light bulbs that only consume 5-7W but give off the same lumens as an 40W incandescent bulb. control your demand and build the system you need.
 
40 years ago my uncle built the neatest system I've ever seen. He had a remote cabin on a small pond in northwestern Maine. He tapped into a spring on the opposite shore at about a 150' elevation. He ran a heavy plastic pipe from the spring, across the bottom of the pond, to a large copper tank, behind, and about 50' above his cabin. The tank (about 100 gallons} would fill from gravity, and the copper tank would heat up from the sun beating on it all day. Unbelievable water pressure! The water got so hot that you couldn't take a shower without mixing in some cold water!

It always amazed me, what this guy could come up with!
 
For the guys looking to run well pumps, would it be functionally prohibitive to use a hand pump? You could pump water into a storage container and have it on demand and just top off the tank every so often.

I don't have a well and have never used a hand pump; I'm just tossing out alternatives to costly pumping/electrical systems for remote locations that won't get much use.
 
ToddDubya said:
For the guys looking to run well pumps, would it be functionally prohibitive to use a hand pump? You could pump water into a storage container and have it on demand and just top off the tank every so often.

I don't have a well and have never used a hand pump; I'm just tossing out alternatives to costly pumping/electrical systems for remote locations that won't get much use.
Click to expand...

A hand pump is okay if the well is shallow, like 20 feet. This would be suitable for a dug well built up where the cabin is. If it needed to be lifted higher to a storage tank, that probably would be too much. I installed a hand pump once and it wasn't all that great to use. They have to be primed with existing water. Then, all the pumping. But, it is something.

In my case, the well is going to be at the bottom of a hill (where the water is). Based on reports from neighbors, they have water at 12 feet. But I then need to get it up a 60 foot height to a cabin, with a horizontal distance of 400 feet. So no hand pump for me except for emergencies. And, if I really needed to use the hand pump, I probably would not bother.... My logging road crosses two small brooks, so I would just drive to the brooks and start scooping water, or maybe run a portable electric pump.
 
Have you considered wind power? I'm building some small vertical windmills from treadmill motors. I found a bunch at a scrap yard, got them cheap and being a welder most of my adult life will weld up a few base plates or tall pipe poles. The treadmill motors can put out some serious voltage, just remember to install a diode as with no wind the battery's will turn the blades.
If you build a vertical style windmill then you don't need to have it on a swivel and the blades can be made from 4" PVC pipe. I'm into four wind mills and pipe for under 50.00 dollars, just need to get the base plates made and I'm just mounting one on a pole off my deck.
For me they will be only used once the shtf and will be portable enough to move in at night or wherever I am.

Jason.
 

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