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On the radio this morning

Arioch

Arioch

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The mayor of Boston was on WBZ radio this morning around 6:30 answering questions about the rise in homicides in Boston. When he was asked why there had been a 60% increase in homicides over last year's numbers to date, his response was that we weren't looking at the whole picture. He had taken over 30,000 guns off the street and this has made Boston safer.

Let's see: fewer guns=more homiceds=greater safety

What am I missing here? [thinking]
 
Yeah, we can laugh at him for his lack of reasoning, but he can make things worse for "us". Let's just hope he realizes, along with the PD, that it's the gangs that they need to focus on. The big problem the PD has is no one is cooperating. I'm really surprised they haven't been able to track where any of these illegal guns came from.
 
Reality Disconnect #46,113:

A. Massachusetts has the most effective gun laws in the nation.

B. Boston police have taken 30,000 illegally-possessed guns off the streets.

What's wrong with that picture?

Nothing, actualy. Just as long as your intent is to disarm only the non-criminal portion of the population. Given that end goal, the MGL gun laws are EXTREMELY effective.
 
He will never focus on the real issues. Drugs and crime because of drugs.

A gun is just a tool of the trade for those criminal types.

Get rid of the drug dealers and the drugs and you will eventually get rid of most of the crime.

He's an anti 2nd guy so he will shift the focus to more restrictions and the media and the poiticians in this state will be right behind him. So what else can I do but laugh.
 
sksguns said:
A gun is just a tool of the trade for those criminal types.

Get rid of the drug dealers and the drugs and you will eventually get rid of most of the crime.
Click to expand...
I think this is the most obvious example of cognitive dissonance I've seen here. ("Cognitive dissonance" = "thinking two contradictory things at the same time".)

Just as guns are merely tools for punching holes in things at long distances, drugs are merely tools for making money, i.e., goods: people want to buy, so naturally someone wants to sell them.

Since the government has rules making it illegal to buy or sell drugs, it forces the drug trade underground and raises costs as a result. The ease of producing drugs, the inflated prices resulting from prohibition, the danger involved in trafficking in prohibited goods, and the lack of legal oversight of the industry all add up to a situation in which criminal elements compete for the business (both buying and selling) using violence as a tool.

It seems we've tried this before and it led to the same problems. Recall reading about prohibition sometime? [wink]

I will point out something that many of you might not have thought of: alcohol prohibition was responsible for many of the idiotic gun laws we have on the books today. The National Firearms Act of 1934 was a direct reaction to the gang violence that resulted from prohibition. The same thing happened then that is happening now: stupid government policies (then against alcohol, today against drugs) are the cause of the violence, but the guns and by extension your RKBA are being blamed.

Don't blame the drugs. Blame the stupid government policies that encourage violence by putting restraints on otherwise peaceful trade.

Kyle
 
I encourage killing the gangers and the drug dealers. Maybe the policies are to blame (although I'm not a blame the government for crime type so I don't think so) but these MS-13 types and the like need to be killed just for their own sake.
 
vellnueve said:
I encourage killing the gangers and the drug dealers. Maybe the policies are to blame (although I'm not a blame the government for crime type so I don't think so) but these MS-13 types and the like need to be killed just for their own sake.
Click to expand...
As long as prohibition remains in place, the profit motive will still be there.

Raising the stakes by cracking down on the local traffickers will only make the problem worse by raising prices: try as you might, you can't repeal the law of supply and demand.

Kyle
 
wow.... now when he was on fox news this morning... I was pretty sure he said they took 1,500 guns off the streets.... that is a HUGE difference.... [thinking]

what to believe, what to believe???

what an ass.
 
Let's see-1500 guns to 30,000 guns. I have to wonder if every one of those guns resulted in a conviction for gun law violations. This number will indicate how serious they are about fighting crime versus taking away your right to revolt against a tyrannical government.
 
Menino is in denial. He's blind and all he wants to do is play politics.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2007/04/02/mayor_tries_to_quell_fear_after_killings/

Mayor tries to quell fear after killings
Insists 'city is working'; victim of bus attack dies

By Maria Cramer, Globe Staff | April 2, 2007

Mayor Thomas M. Menino attended Palm Sunday services in the city yesterday, trying to reassure people that Boston is safe.

"This city is working," Menino told more than 900 people gathered at Morning Star Baptist Church in Mattapan. "There are good things happening. Let's not focus on the negatives."

Menino spoke several hours after Dwayne Graham, 18, of Hyde Park, who was shot in the head Friday while riding a city bus, was taken off life support Saturday night, according to Boston police. Graham became the 16th homicide victim in the city this year; Boston had 10 homicides at this point last year.

The victim's mother, Dorese Graham, told New England Cable News: "I lost my son, and I will never see him again. They took a piece of my heart . . . part of me . . . just ripped it out of my heart. I forgive them. I just hope and pray that they get caught."

Many residents have been terrified by the spasm of violence that began Friday afternoon, when Graham was shot on an Ashmont-bound bus at 3:30 in the afternoon, and continued last night when a man was shot in the back on Angell Street, near Franklin Park in Dorchester.

A law enforcement official with knowledge of the investigation into Graham's shooting said police were probing the possibility that the slaying was gang-related and tied to the conviction last month of Ivan Hodge and O'Neil Francis for shooting and killing 17-year-old Tacary Jones on an MBTA bus in Roxbury in March 2005.

Another man -- identified by the official as James Jacobs, who was in his 20s -- was fatally shot on McLellan Street in Dorchester Friday night.

Menino sought to quell fears with brief, low-key remarks to the congregation on Blue Hill Avenue, which bisects the area where most of the homicides this year have occurred. Menino, who came to the service with his wife, Angela, told the worshipers to help any young person they believe might be at risk of falling prey to violence.

"We need to work together," he said, speaking softly. "Stay focused. Reach out. Reach out to touch somebody."

After the service, as he headed to the Greater Love Tabernacle in Dorchester, Menino said he has been too busy to meet with the Guardian Angels, a self-appointed safety patrol based in New York that returned to Boston last week. The mayor said he would see if he can find time in his schedule.

"Let's not play on vigilantes," said Menino, who has said gangs seem to be behind much of the violence. "Let's play on vigilance."

Menino received warm applause from the Morning Star congregation, and some worshipers said they felt reassured by his speech.

"He's supportive of the neighborhoods," said Beverly Rogers, 45, of Roslindale, who has attended services at Morning Star for two years. "We need something. We need some help."

But Arva Byron, 17, of Dorchester said she was not comforted by Menino's words.

"I do believe Boston should call a state of emergency," she said, referring to the declaration that the Rev. Bruce Wall, pastor at Global Ministries Christian Church, has made on his radio show and plastered in white letters on his church window.

"Lives are at risk, and I have friends who are afraid to walk the streets," Byron said.

The Rev. John M. Borders III, who led the service at Morning Star, called on his congregation to pray for an end to the violence.

"We pray that [perpetrators] will bring their weapons to the house of the Lord and lay them on the altar and lay themselves on the altar," he said.

At a later service at Global Ministries near Codman Square, members of the Guardian Angels said they have a list of names and phone numbers of 35 to 40 people between the ages of 15 and 25 who want to help patrol the streets of Dorchester.

Some in law enforcement see the Guardian Angels as media-hungry vigilantes, and neither City Hall nor the Police Department has embraced the group. But the group said it plans to remain in the city until crime drops. One member yesterday said the organization plans to recruit up to 200 volunteers, the number the Boston chapter boasted at its peak during the 1980s and early 1990s. The chapter disbanded in 1992.

Many teenage men have approached the Angels eager to sign up, said John Ayala of the Angels' Washington, D.C., chapter. He was speaking to more than 100 worshipers gathered at Global Ministries, where the pastor, Wall, has invited the group to set up headquarters.

"We're having people praising us and thanking us," Ayala said. "They're walking up and saying: 'How can I join? How can I get involved?' "

At Global Ministries, church deacons stood behind the eight Angels who attended the service, placed their hands on their shoulders, and prayed for their well-being.

The Angels, who have about 16 volunteers so far, have walked the streets during the day and patrolled MBTA stations and trains at night, including the Orange and Red lines, said Erich Kennedy, a Boston resident who had been active with the group when they were here previously.

Wall told his congregation that the Guardian Angels have arrived as the city is desperate for more help.

"I'm tired of walking the streets by myself," he said. "I'm so thankful God sent me some angels."

Maria Cramer can be reached at [email protected].
Click to expand...
 
squarooticus said:
As long as prohibition remains in place, the profit motive will still be there.

Raising the stakes by cracking down on the local traffickers will only make the problem worse by raising prices: try as you might, you can't repeal the law of supply and demand.

Kyle
Click to expand...

That is certainly true. That said, I still think that we should kill them. Depleting the supply of people willing to sell these drugs eventually will take its toll.
 
vellnueve said:
That is certainly true. That said, I still think that we should kill them. Depleting the supply of people willing to sell these drugs eventually will take its toll.
Click to expand...
We've been at it for 30 years, and it doesn't seem to be doing squat: the greatest casualty of the drug war has been our civil liberties.

Why not eliminate the crime issue by simply letting drugs be sold on the open market? You don't see much in the way of organized crime anymore in the tobacco or alcohol industries (though tobacco taxes are slowly creating a black market).

Kyle
 
squarooticus said:
We've been at it for 30 years, and it doesn't seem to be doing squat: the greatest casualty of the drug war has been our civil liberties.
Why not eliminate the crime issue by simply letting drugs be sold on the open market? You don't see much in the way of organized crime anymore in the tobacco or alcohol industries (though tobacco taxes are slowly creating a black market).

Kyle
Click to expand...

+1
 
squarooticus said:
We've been at it for 30 years, and it doesn't seem to be doing squat: the greatest casualty of the drug war has been our civil liberties.

Why not eliminate the crime issue by simply letting drugs be sold on the open market? You don't see much in the way of organized crime anymore in the tobacco or alcohol industries (though tobacco taxes are slowly creating a black market).

Kyle
Click to expand...

No, I don't mean jail them. I mean kill them. Hang them in public places.
 
vellnueve said:
No, I don't mean jail them. I mean kill them. Hang them in public places.
Click to expand...
I'm sure a lot of people would love to see this happen to people who sell guns. Death dealers, don't you know. [wink]

I think the unfettered use of force against someone who is trying to fill a market need is a bad precedent to set. Hang someone for murder, not for selling something that people want to buy.

Kyle
 
"Let's not play on vigilantes," said Menino, who has said gangs seem to be behind much of the violence. "Let's play on vigilance."
Click to expand...

Was he actually able to say that without tripping all over him mouth?
 
derek said:
+1 If people want it bad enough there will always be a market for it legal or not.
Click to expand...

I've always been in favor of the government just flooding the market
with cheap drugs in the interest of simply putting the criminals out
of business. At least make it easy enough for those already
addicted to get their fix without supporting the criminals.

The system required for the "cleanup" would be less costly than the
so called "war on drugs" crap that we've been doing for what seems
like forever. And the war on drugs is an abject failure... all it has
done is increase the price of the drugs.... which leads to people
committing theft and other crimes against others in order to satisfy
their needs for whatever drug it is.

Add to the fact that the novelty would wear off with most drugs after
awhile and the net result would be less crime and less addicts. (people
will either get help and quit or die of an overdose... fine by me either
way. )

-Mike
 
vellnueve said:
That is certainly true. That said, I still think that we should kill them. Depleting the supply of people willing to sell these drugs eventually will take its toll.
Click to expand...

Doubtful. You might increase the cost of the drugs a bit but I doubt
you will prevent it from happening. The profit margins are too great.

Places like Singapore have some pretty high penalties for smuggling and... well, low and behold, people are still getting hung for smuggling dope.

I only think the death route is really effective with child molesters and their
ilk... they exist due to a psychological/physiological defect, not because
of market forces. Worst case with the kiddy diddlers is it would reduce
the total number of them, which is not a bad thing. It is not like a drug
dealer where you kill one and one gangbanger who is crezy enough will
rise up to take his place. A lot of these guys aren't scared of death,
either... so the DP gives them little incentive to stop... after all what
difference does it make if the gun being fired at them is from another drug
dealer or a police officer?

I'm just being pragmatic, here.

-Mike
 
Lynne said:
Was he actually able to say that without tripping all over him mouth?
Click to expand...

Lynne, I'm sure it sounded more like:

"Leths not pway on wigilantes," said Menino, who has said gangs seem to be behind much of the violence. "Let's play on vigil."

"Thank Wu."


-Mike
 

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