On Children, Parents and Planes

RKG

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The underlying thread having been closed before I got back home, I feel the need to add my $.02:

I actually recall my first >1,000 mile train ride as a child and my first plane ride (Super Constellation, just slightly after open cockpits) as a child. On those occasions, as on any other, had my father issued the command, "Quiet!" neither my sister nor I would have issued a peep.

Not one peep.

It is not impossible to instill discipline in children, just more effort than most modern parents are willing to devote.

If, however, you have a child whom you cannot -- or elect not to -- control, then I have no hesitation in saying that you also have an absolute, iron-clad duty not to thrust such monsters on people in a confined space from which no escape is possible.
 
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KMaurer

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We lived in a different geologic era. I too recall my first commercial flight on a Connie (the world's finest three-engine airliner). My first flight actually was open cockpit in a Stearman N2S. My father wouldn't have had to bother with any verbal command, since the situation would have been considered obvious. My mother never bothered to "child-proof" our house either, displaying dozens of little nick-knacks in locations easily reachable by toddlers. The desire to survive to the ripe old age of 5 somehow safeguarded everything. Of course the only rights we had in those days were the rights to sit still, shut up, and do as we were told. Yet we all managed to survive, and were actually better and happier for it all.

Ken
 
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We lived in a different geologic era. I too recall my first commercial flight on a Connie (the world's finest three-engine airliner). My first flight actually was open cockpit in a Stearman N2S. My father wouldn't have had to bother with any verbal command, since the situation would have been considered obvious. My mother never bothered to "child-proof" our house either, displaying dozens of little nick-knacks in locations easily reachable by toddlers. The desire to survive to the ripe old age of 5 somehow safeguarded everything. Of course the only rights we had in those days were the rights to sit still, shut up, and do as we were told. Yet we all managed to survive, and were actually better and happier for it all.

Ken
++++1!
 
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The underlying thread having been closed before I got back home, I feel the need to add my $.02:

I actually recall my first >1,000 mile train ride as a child and my first plane ride (Super Constellation, just slightly after open cockpits) as a child. On those occasions, as on any other, had my father issued the command, "Quiet!" neither my sister nor I would have issued a peep.
Not one peep.

It is not impossible to instill discipline in children, just more effort than most modern parents are willing to devote.

If, however, you have a child whom you cannot -- or elect not to -- control, then I have no hesitation in saying that you also have an absolute, iron-clad duty not to thrust such monsters on people in a confined space from which no escape is possible.

You know....you bring up an interesting point and you remind me of a situation I encountered about 4 weeks ago.

My wife was out with her sister getting massages and facials and manicures and pedacures ( you know, the women stuff they like to do) and I was left to attend a family day party at my next door neighbor's house with my 3 and 5 year old. Both girls...anyway he rented two bouncy houses for the kids to jump around in. In one of them my three year old kept pulling my five year old's hair. Needless to say the five year old was yelling and screaming and this was pissing me off. So I warned the three year old several times that I would pull her out of there and she'd have to sit in a time-out....(the liberal form of discipline these days)

She persisted and i removed her and carried her over to sit in a chair under a tree to shade her from the sun. I gave her some water and she sat their and cried as i started to walk over to check on my 5 year old. Well the crying got loouder and I turned and gave her that mean daddy look and told her in a soft firm voice to stop crying. I told her one time. She stopped and sat there without a peep. When i came back a woman sitting near by made a comment to the affect that she could not believe that my daughter responded as such with just being told once.

I made a wise ass comment in reply something to affect that I'm tha parent and they ar ethe children and they will listen to me or there will be consequences and they are aware of what those consequences are.

Then I gave my youngest a pickup and a big hug and let her go play some more.

I half expected DSS at my door that night.

My kids get the timeouts and if that fails they go to their rooms and if that fails they go in their beds and if that fails they get the door shut and if that fails no bedtime music and if that fails no bedtime books. By that time they are usually in bed asleep....lol
 
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I've never chiled proofed my house either. And while it takes more work in the early statges... For the most part, I can take my kids anywhere and they leave shit alone.

My buddy, they had thier house with gate everywhere...locks on the toilet, fridge, doors... When they come over...you'll be eating and all of a sudden, my whole house is shaking. They just decided to turn up my stereo to some number higher than the know lists...

They open fridge doors and leave them open...you'll find one playing in the commode water...

It drives me nuts... But it's not my kids and I don't tell people how to parent.

I do the time outs....if that doesn't work... It's a toss into their beds.. If that doesn't work... Well, I haven't gotten to that point. They konw that if I'm pissed and put them into bed...they better find a way to calm down or they don't leave thier room.

That also wasn't easy. You have to train them...they get up, you put them back...they get up, you put them back. It's amazing how fast they learn that they aren't going to win. And if they just calm down, that will get them further than freaking out and screaming.
 
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I do the time outs....if that doesn't work... It's a toss into their beds.. If that doesn't work... Well, I haven't gotten to that point. They konw that if I'm pissed and put them into bed...they better find a way to calm down or they don't leave thier room.

That also wasn't easy. You have to train them...they get up, you put them back...they get up, you put them back. It's amazing how fast they learn that they aren't going to win. And if they just calm down, that will get them further than freaking out and screaming.
that is what we do as well.

and (not bragging mind you) we are always complimented on how well behaved our children our.

However, there are those rare (and very rare mind you) moments where hell breaks loose and all you can do is look up and say "why me?"

I grew up in a home where you normally only cried because you got whacked... then if you continued to cry you were told "knock it off or I'll give you something to cry about"

let me tell you.. not a way to raise kids... and that is what some of the older gen groups fail to see.

again, we use the same method as C-pher, and again, our children are very well behaved.
 

EddieCoyle

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I do the time outs....if that doesn't work... It's a toss into their beds...
My kids are 12 & 13 - a little old for time outs. Now they lose TV, computer, and video games if they misbehave. When that's not enough, I've found a "punishment" that works so well that I've only had to use it once:

I make them watch the Golf Channel. The mere threat turns them into angels.

EDIT: I'm not joking.
 
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My kids are 12 & 13 - a little old for time outs. Now they lose TV, computer, and video games if they misbehave. When that's not enough, I've found a "punishment" that works so well that I've only had to use it once:

I make them watch the Golf Channel. The mere threat turns them into angels.

EDIT: I'm not joking.
In some parts of the world that could be considered abuse...lmao!!!!!
 
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My kids are 12 & 13 - a little old for time outs. Now they lose TV, computer, and video games if they misbehave. When that's not enough, I've found a "punishment" that works so well that I've only had to use it once:

I make them watch the Golf Channel. The mere threat turns them into angels.

EDIT: I'm not joking.
I do take things away from the Older one. A lot of times, she'll want to go somewhere, like over to Shovelhead's to see Bonnie and Joe. We'll be going to get into the car, she won't listen about something and homeward bound we go. She's upset and tells me that she'll be nice. I inform her that she needed to be nice BEFORE we got to this point.

Taking things away from the older one is JUST starting to work... The younger one still doesn't get it.. It's just repeat and repeat so she learns what to expect with what behavior.
 
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that is what we do as well.

and (not bragging mind you) we are always complimented on how well behaved our children our.

However, there are those rare (and very rare mind you) moments where hell breaks loose and all you can do is look up and say "why me?"

I grew up in a home where you normally only cried because you got whacked... then if you continued to cry you were told "knock it off or I'll give you something to cry about"

let me tell you.. not a way to raise kids... and that is what some of the older gen groups fail to see.

again, we use the same method as C-pher, and again, our children are very well behaved.
Well, I'm an older female, and I agree with the older males around here with regards to discipline (but not WRT the plane incident). There's nothing wrong with respect, even fearful respect, especially if the infractions are dangerous and/or life-threatening. I don't, however, consider a child speaking on a plane to be either one.
 

RKG

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I grew up in a home where you normally only cried because you got whacked... then if you continued to cry you were told "knock it off or I'll give you something to cry about"

let me tell you.. not a way to raise kids
Why not?
 

RKG

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They konw that if I'm pissed and put them into bed...
I guess I should admit (tad late maybe?) that I'm no expert in this general field, but:

I never lived in fear that my father would be "pissed" at me;

I did, when I sensed I was getting close to the line, deeply fear that he would be disappointed in me.

In fact, on thankfully rare occasions, I've still felt that fear, notwithstanding that he's been gone for a long time.

In any event, then and now that risk was enough to get me back on course.
 
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dwarven1

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My buddy, they had thier house with gate everywhere...locks on the toilet, fridge, doors... When they come over...you'll be eating and all of a sudden, my whole house is shaking. They just decided to turn up my stereo to some number higher than the know lists...

They open fridge doors and leave them open...you'll find one playing in the commode water...

It drives me nuts... But it's not my kids and I don't tell people how to parent.
They're not your kids, but they are in your house, and you should have the right to tell the parents that they either control their kids or they're not welcome any more.

Kathy and I had some friends over once, and their little monster had cornered our cat and was shrieking at her - I asked his mother to do something; her idea of doing something was to say "Oh, Michael, leave the nice kitty alone..."

MY idea was to forcibly drag said little monster away from my kitten and we informed the parents that while they were welcome back, their son wasn't until he learned some manners. They never came over again. No great loss; the shrieking was getting on my nerves, too.

I understand that when little Michael reached 5 years old his mother FINALLY started to say "No" to him. Apparently she had some real hard times dealing with the little monster since she'd never said "no" to him before...
 

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I must be doing something right. Although my sons (ages 12 and 8) fight like nobody's business at home, I often get comments on their excellent behavior and manners when we are in public.

I agree and practice modified traditional discipline with the boys as my dad did with me. It must be understood though, that the world is a different place today than it was when I was a 12 year old. (not that long ago...) Admittedly, kids today have much more privelidge than we did, but they are also under different pressures than we were. I'm not saying it is harder today on kids, just different, and that in and of itself justifies differing disciplinary practices.
 

KMaurer

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Jeekers, I guess my old man sprung for First Class: our Super Connie had four engines!
Back when dinosaurs ruled the earth, planes used what were called "piston engines", something like what's in your car, but bigger and "funny" shaped. These were known to fail on occasion. As a result of such failures, the Super Connie was sometimes referred to by crews and others as the world's finest three-engine airliner.

Ken
 
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I guess I should admit (tad late maybe?) that I'm no expert in this general field, but:

I never lived in fear that my father would be "pissed" at me;

I did, when I sensed I was getting close to the line, deeply fear that he would be disappointed in me.

In fact, on thankfully rare occasions, I've still felt that fear, notwithstanding that he's been gone for a long time.

In any event, then and now that risk was enough to get me back on course.
They are one and a half and Four. So I'm not thinking that the whole concept of disappointed is really sunk in yet.

They do know that when I'm upset, I'm not happy with them. Which is what I tell them. But I have to step back when I'm really angry and think about what I'm going to do.

I've never believe that when you so fuming at them, it's a good time to impose discipline. I will then defer to my wife. My kids know that when they get me to that point...which isn't that often...they start behaving.

I would think that somehow they know that I'm disappointed in them, as the older one has started to come out after she's calmed down and told me that she was sorry for not listening...or pushing her sister, or whatever she was doing to make me instill some type of discipline.

I lived in fear of my Father and Grandfather both for the fear that they would be dissipointed, and the fear that they were going to be pissed. You DID not want to piss off my Grandfather. Even when I was around 16, and he was in his late 60's. He could grab you by your neck and pick you up off the ground with one hand... You didn't want him pissed. So, it was enough to keep all the grand kids in line when you were around him.

They're not your kids, but they are in your house, and you should have the right to tell the parents that they either control their kids or they're not welcome any more.
Well, they are REALLY good friends. And they did walk around and keep their kids in line. I'm just saying that the child never had to live where there wasn't a safety device attached. So, being a naturally curious kid, he would get into things that he normally couldn't get into at home.




I'm guessing that I'm starting to think differently when it comes to kids.

I know that kids don't have some of the self control that adults have because they don't know it yet... I also know that kids are naturally curious, so they are going to get into things...again, because unless you teach them, they don't know any better.

So when they come over, and they do police thier kids, but I also know that three or four adults with 5 or 6 kids all under 4, it's also going to be hard to be EVERYWHERE. So, sometimes things are going to happen... Like they turn up the stereo...or open the fridge.

Of, if I forgot to close the bathroom door when I went out, they play in the potty.


They aren't adults, they are kids. And it seems that people tend to forget that...
 
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What really gets me is how some parents think their child is more advanced in a certain area than they really are.

I know these poeple and our kids play together sometimes....as I've mentioned I have a 3 and a 5 year old.

Well they have a 3 and a 5 year old as well and their 5 year old is barely pottie trained (I'll explain in more detail) and their three year old is training but not there yet.

My 5 year old is completely trained and my 3 year old wants no part od it...just like wearing pull-ups rather than the pampers...

Well, their 5 year old is good during the day but at night still wets the bed. No big deal...kids do that. But they don't have any protection on the mattress and all they do is after each event clean it up best they can and flip the mattress. (MAJOR YUCK!!!!!)

The three year old they insist is trained and is wearing underwear and pisses everywhere. They continually tell me how pull-ups delay the end result however they seem to be cleaning up piss from all over their house and cars.

I guess I'm the idiot here as my kid is still in pull-ups/pampers...but she is clean and her bed is clean and she'll learn when she's ready.

So they throw darts at me all the time because of my reluctance to force the issue with my daughter all the while their kid is using the world as a toilet.

I don't say anything but I don't invite them for play dates either. And if they come in the house they have to stay on any tile/linoleum or I make them move.

It seems rude but you have to take care of your kids and not let them gross out others. lmao!!!!!
 

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Don't let them get to you. When your kids are ready they will let you know the no longer want the diaper/pullups. Those types of parents drive me nut. Just wait until those kids go to school.[thinking] [rolleyes]
 

RKG

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Back when dinosaurs ruled the earth, planes used what were called "piston engines", something like what's in your car, but bigger and "funny" shaped. These were known to fail on occasion. As a result of such failures, the Super Connie was sometimes referred to by crews and others as the world's finest three-engine airliner.

Ken
I get it now!
 
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Back when dinosaurs ruled the earth, planes used what were called "piston engines", something like what's in your car, but bigger and "funny" shaped. These were known to fail on occasion. As a result of such failures, the Super Connie was sometimes referred to by crews and others as the world's finest three-engine airliner.

Ken
It was one beautiful airplane[grin]
 
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I'm not letting it bother me but I di think that I might be a little evaisive when I see them because I don't want to be in the situation where their kid is pissing all over my house...lol

I mean it's funny but it's gross you know...

Not forcing my daughter at all but we're not letting her wear underwear either....she'll stay in the pullups/pampers until she's in control or her events. But she's asking to use the bathroom now so that's the beginning. Should be good with her by the end of the summer.

I don't mind an accident here or there as it will happen.....but I'm not going to lie to myself and say simply becasue she's three she's trained. That's what they are doing but I notice of late that not a lot of other neighbors are sedning invites to them either....lol
 
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+1 I turned out pretty damn good. So did my father, my grandfather, and my great grandfather...
+1. And my own children seemed to have survived and prospered. The grandchildren on the other hand.... [thinking]

Since I"m not in close by, I haven't had the opportunity to instill the necessary "respect" (read fear) of Pawpaw that is required when all of them get together.

My kids have been a bit more lenient in raising theirs than I was. Its always fun though. [smile]
 
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