Officer involved shooting in Saugus saturday

[crispnipz]

White's are ok with it apparently

There are many factors to that, many of which I fear I will get in trouble for stating here, but one factor is a (by design) lack of racial group identity among Whites. Other races in the US form explicit, cohesive groups based on race. The powers that be have prevented us from doing so for many reasons. The closest remaining acceptable group identity for Whites is the European ancestry to which we belong. For example, pride in being Italian-American or pride in being Polish-American.

 

[cams]

You think that was the “cheap shot”? You must not have read the story.

So as long as it fits our personal narratives as related to individual incidents, fully knowing we have very little factual information on the story itself, then the MSM has all of a sudden regained an ounce of integrity and this story as written is gospel? Is that what you’d have me believe? lol

If someone, anyone, asked me to write a list of just 10 reasons why I carry a pistol every day, I’m 100% sure that one of my reasons would be “in case some crazy person ever tried to stab me”, and it would be near the top of my list.

Crazy people are literally everywhere on a daily basis whether you notice them or not, and from my personal experience, at least 80% + carry some type of knife on their body daily, generally a kitchen steak knife just shoved in a pocket. Anyone with even the slightest amount of street experience or knowledge can attest to that fact alone.

Now even without the included additional details that we do know, of being in a strange house with multiple occupants, called there not for an ‘emergency’ but to help talk someone down and or evaluate if they’re having some type of psychotic break, thus determining if they also need to call an ambulance and get this person further medical assistance that they’re not equipped to give.

And while attempting to render this assistance, the person in question flips their shit, grabs a knife, all while contained inside a small room in a strange house and having to decide there and then in a nanosecond if you will live or die, right here, right f***ing now, today, the next 2 seconds in time will decide my fate, the fate of my children, the fate of my wife, and still have enough time in your head to think about why this person is trying to kill me?

You don’t get time outs on the street. You don’t get to say ‘ok hold on now, let me think about this for a minute so I don’t f*** it up’. What choice would you have made?

Personally I would not sacrifice my life and the fate of my family simply because I tried to help a stranger and they in return tried to stab me for it.

 

[Boris]

There wasn’t a man around to restrain her while someone called an ambulance first? Sucks for everyone involved

a "man" ... with police force getting woke, health and fitness takes backseat to being obese, trooned out and not-white. I don't know who they can restrain, except much smaller women.

I have a family member working with mental counseling services thing. You'd think that people who need to restrain mentals would be physically fit and trained ... nope, not unless they are skinny females and woke. It's a f***ing bizarro world.

 

[SHOCKNAWE]

a "man" ... with police force getting woke, health and fitness takes backseat to being obese, trooned out and not-white. I don't know who they can restrain, except much smaller women.

I have a family member working with mental counseling services thing. You'd think that people who need to restrain mentals would be physically fit and trained ... nope, not unless they are skinny females and woke. It's a f***ing bizarro world.

I was referring to a relative who is a man, ie calling him to come to the house and wrap her up and then call an ambulance. I wouldn’t have even called the police if it was a situation where I could just grab her and wrap her up till she got strapped to a gurney or hit with drugs to calm her down by EMT’s. Of course it’s easy to Monday morning QB it without being there. I’m not going to comment on the shooting part since I don’t know all the details but a knife makes it a bad play to go hands on regardless of how tough a man might be.

 

[Boris]

I was referring to a relative who is a man, ie calling him to come to the house and wrap her up and then call an ambulance. I wouldn’t have even called the police if it was a situation where I could just grab her and wrap her up till she got strapped to a gurney or hit with drugs to calm her down by EMT’s. Of course it’s easy to Monday morning QB it without being there. I’m not going to comment on the shooting part since I don’t know all the details but a knife makes it a bad play to go hands on regardless of how tough a man might be.

no worries, I don't give a shit about pronouns, a man had to do it.

but you know what else ... child protective services would be watching, IRS would be watching, as a woman she can probably get a restraining order against him, ... dude would probably get labeled an abuser, sued to nothing, etc. If she does not have legal guardianship over her, she can do even more damage to her family than with a mere knife in courts, because as crazy as she is, this system is hellbent on f***ing over sane people.

 

[SHOCKNAWE]

no worries, I don't give a shit about pronouns, a man had to do it.

but you know what else ... child protective services would be watching, IRS would be watching, as a woman she can probably get a restraining order against him, ... dude would probably get labeled an abuser, sued to nothing, etc. If she does not have legal guardianship over her, she can do even more damage to her family than with a mere knife in courts, because as crazy as she is, this system is hellbent on f***ing over sane people.

Valid points and I agree but what the F’k if it was a loved one I’d take my chances. Stressful situations like this usually don’t get dealt with rationally since most people freak out and think calling the police will save the situation, I lean pro police but even still I would seriously only call them if I had no other choice, since I know that they are flesh and blood with the same capabilities to stress the F’k out over stupid shit and make bad decisions which can result in them shooting. I’ve dealt with deranged mental people numerous times and talking nice or with authority rarely ever works. It’s a shitty situation all around.

 

[cams]

I was referring to a relative who is a man, ie calling him to come to the house and wrap her up and then call an ambulance. I wouldn’t have even called the police if it was a situation where I could just grab her and wrap her up till she got strapped to a gurney or hit with drugs to calm her down by EMT’s. Of course it’s easy to Monday morning QB it without being there. I’m not going to comment on the shooting part since I don’t know all the details but a knife makes it a bad play to go hands on regardless of how tough a man might be.

I get what you’re saying here, but no matter who tries to restrain the person, that in and of itself will cause them to flip out and struggle to be released. Nobody wants another person holding them down and human instinct is to fight back, mix in a dose of crazy and it’s on like Donkey Kong no matter who is doing it.

Even if the family called EMS and didn’t call the cops, they (EMS) in turn will call for police assistance just in case it goes south on them and they’re stuck in the house unarmed being attacked.

It’s a shit sandwich no matter how you cut it. There aren’t any clear answers or responses to such incidents, it’s always fluid, even though they may be similar in nature, each one is completely different than the next and can go from static to dynamic in a heartbeat.

I’m sure you’ve had your own dealings with similar situations on your job, with probably much bigger, stronger and meaner convicts, it happens in a split second and is generally a cluster f*** of a**h***s and elbows that you have to deal with immediately.

When deadly violence is being thrust upon us, then sometimes deadly violence in return is the only answer. That’s just a sad fact of societal norm and why most of us carry in our daily lives.

You know, I look at your job that you did and I think to myself, even knowing what I did for my career, that there’s no f***ing way I could do that job. You have to be nuts to lock yourself up daily with these f***ing people. lol
God bless you, I’d tap out the first week and head straight for the bar. Couldn’t do it, but I’m happy there are people who do.

 

[Sparky123]

I am not trying to second guess the officer involved. He felt his life was on the line and he reacted, no one is judging him. In that same situation, most of us would have probably done the same things, especially without any other options available. But I have seen those beanbag rounds knock down a 250-pound guy down like nothing. Couldn't those types of weapons be used in situations like this? I know that tasers don't always work, but a bean bag round could have easily taken her down. Agree, disagree.

 

[FalArAk]

If the person was black, would the officer just un-ass himself from the house to avoid shooting ? He certainly would have thought twice though (IMO), and I guess that's the real problem here.

All this situation will end up doing is renew the calls for defunding, because this situation is exactly what they are referring to, a civilian crisis team to intervene in mental health issues.... But the victim is white, so.... Who knows.

 

[SHOCKNAWE]

I am not trying to second guess the officer involved. He felt his life was on the line and he reacted, no one is judging him. In that same situation, most of us would have probably done the same things, especially without any other options available. But I have seen those beanbag rounds knock down a 250-pound guy down like nothing. Couldn't those types of weapons be used in situations like this? I know that tasers don't always work, but a bean bag round could have easily taken her down. Agree, disagree.

Beanbags are not standard issue nor are they part of EDC. Agree that it “Might” work but so wouldn’t have a taser but in certain situations you get a split second to react which in turn can mean life or death. Again I don’t know the dynamics or variables of this exact situation but you don’t use a beanbag against a knife..

 

[Boris]

Valid points and I agree but what the F’k if it was a loved one I’d take my chances. Stressful situations like this usually don’t get dealt with rationally since most people freak out and think calling the police will save the situation, I lean pro police but even still I would seriously only call them if I had no other choice, since I know that they are flesh and blood with the same capabilities to stress the F’k out over stupid shit and make bad decisions which can result in them shooting. I’ve dealt with deranged mental people numerous times and talking nice or with authority rarely ever works. It’s a shitty situation all around.

crazy people, even loved, can quickly turn against you and destroy you both physically as well as financially. It's great /sarc that .gov interferes every step to make sure that taking care of family is as difficult as can be. Keep in mind that legally, there is absof***inglutely no difference between your and her legally. She can sue you just like anyone else and with our f***ed up court system, they will assist her every step of the way.

Dealing with crazy family is totally different than resolving one or two incidents. At some point the baggage becomes too much to bear and you'll just tune out or loose interest.


Again, I see a lot of female divershitty officers in uniform and there is no f***ing way they can deal with a threat of their own size. You carry a gun to mitigate that, but it's not your job or will to get into confrontation like a police officer would. Deliberately putting people into those situations that they have no training or physical ability to handle is FUBAR.

 

[cams]

I am not trying to second guess the officer involved. He felt his life was on the line and he reacted, no one is judging him. In that same situation, most of us would have probably done the same things, especially without any other options available. But I have seen those beanbag rounds knock down a 250-pound guy down like nothing. Couldn't those types of weapons be used in situations like this? I know that tasers don't always work, but a bean bag round could have easily taken her down. Agree, disagree.

1) I’ve seen beanbag rounds that were completely ineffective, even after multiple hits.

2) Walking into a strangers house with a shotgun in your hands (even it’s sporting orange ‘less lethal’ furniture to ID it as such, and only to those who know what orange less lethal furniture actually means) is really not the best way to try and de-escalate a situation. Ya that’s gonna be a hard no dog.

3) Being in a fully furnished room holding a shotgun (hopefully at least with its muzzle pointed at the floor) trying to at least appear helpful, sympathetic and non-aggressive all while trying to un-f*** a family situation that for the moment you still know absolutely nothing about, is a really poor answer to this.

 

[SHOCKNAWE]

I get what you’re saying here, but no matter who tries to restrain the person, that in and of itself will cause them to flip out and struggle to be released. Nobody wants another person holding them down and human instinct is to fight back, mix in a dose of crazy and it’s on like Donkey Kong no matter who is doing it.

Even if the family called EMS and didn’t call the cops, they (EMS) in turn will call for police assistance just in case it goes south on them and they’re stuck in the house unarmed being attacked.

It’s a shit sandwich no matter how you cut it. There aren’t any clear answers or responses to such incidents, it’s always fluid, even though they may be similar in nature, each one is completely different than the next and can go from static to dynamic in a heartbeat.

I’m sure you’ve had your own dealings with similar situations on your job, with probably much bigger, stronger and meaner convicts, it happens in a split second and is generally a cluster f*** of a**h***s and elbows that you have to deal with immediately.

When deadly violence is being thrust upon us, then sometimes deadly violence in return is the only answer. That’s just a sad fact of societal norm and why most of us carry in our daily lives.

You know, I look at your job that you did and I think to myself, even knowing what I did for my career, that there’s no f***ing way I could do that job. You have to be nuts to lock yourself up daily with these f***ing people. lol
God bless you, I’d tap out the first week and head straight for the bar. Couldn’t do it, but I’m happy there are people who do.

Believe me I absolutely know what your saying and agree with you. My line of thought and I’m assuming you would agree is that a woman ( without the knife ) would more than likely be able to be restrained by a typical man and worth the struggle if it was a loved one especially. I also know that the police are going to show regardless once EMT’s are dispatched so it’s a shit sandwich one way or another. Working in corrections is a shit show, I ran the disciplinary detention unit for 6 years and my back wall of the unit always had mentally ill inmates at one point or another, most of the time they were naked and covered in their own feces, the system failed them and guys like me are left to deal with them and the only qualifications we have is to use brute force to handle them when talking and mental health staff can’t get through to them. After we get them restrained they get hit up with meds and they are happy for awhile. Wash, rinse repeat. It’s sad but it is what it is. I used to hear it all the time from cops that they couldn’t do the job ect but really I always said that I never worried about getting a gun pulled on me so it wasn’t all that bad lol, but yea most guys like yourself could do the job, it’s just a question of how much stupid shit you can deal with without snapping, it’s amazing what you can become used to though. The big picture is the system failing these people but it’s hard to make sure people are properly medicated every day so I’m not sure what the answer is. I know a few people who have a kid that is mentally f’ked up and it’s awful what they go through.

 

[cams]

Believe me I absolutely know what your saying and agree with you. My line of thought and I’m assuming you would agree is that a woman ( without the knife ) would more than likely be able to be restrained by a typical man and worth the struggle if it was a loved one especially. I also know that the police are going to show regardless once EMT’s are dispatched so it’s a shit sandwich one way or another. Working in corrections is a shit show, I ran the disciplinary detention unit for 6 years and my back wall of the unit always had mentally ill inmates at one point or another, most of the time they were naked and covered in their own feces, the system failed them and guys like me are left to deal with them and the only qualifications we have is to use brute force to handle them when talking and mental health staff can’t get through to them. After we get them restrained they get hit up with meds and they are happy for awhile. Wash, rinse repeat. It’s sad but it is what it is. I used to hear it all the time from cops that they couldn’t do the job ect but really I always said that I never worried about getting a gun pulled on me so it wasn’t all that bad lol, but yea most guys like yourself could do the job, it’s just a question of how much stupid shit you can deal with without snapping, it’s amazing what you can become used to though. The big picture is the system failing these people but it’s hard to make sure people are properly medicated every day so I’m not sure what the answer is. I know a few people who have a kid that is mentally f’ked up and it’s awful what they go through.

Agreed. Common theme for me is the system is f***ed from top to bottom and all the new pols who come up with promises to fix it just hang up some new curtains and “Whaala! It’s magically done.” Until it isn’t.
They don’t GAF about you, me or any other person out there and will be happy to point fingers at whoever’s unlucky enough to be on scene that day. It is what it is. You just can’t come out clean when the entire system is rigged against all of us.

If anyone higher up than your average beat cop gave one ounce of care, they’d be opening up the state mental hospitals again ASAP.

It’s the only solution I can come up with for the time being to stop crazy people who violently attack others from being put down. If society wants to protect these people then they should be screaming from the rooftops that they need 24/7 medical care and observation for the patients own safety, and that of every citizen in town.

Sending armed and poorly trained personnel to deal with crazy people is a losing game. Some kind of twisted circle of life while everyone up top sits back and watches the show. Means nothing to them or their bank account.

 

[SHOCKNAWE]

Agreed. Common theme for me is the system is f***ed from top to bottom and all the new pols who come up with promises to fix it just hang up some new curtains and “Whaala! It’s magically done.” Until it isn’t.
They don’t GAF about you, me or any other person out there and will be happy to point fingers at whoever’s unlucky enough to be on scene that day. It is what it is. You just can’t come out clean when the entire system is rigged against all of us.

If anyone higher up than your average beat cop gave one ounce of care, they’d be opening up the state mental hospitals again ASAP.

It’s the only solution I can come up with for the time being to stop crazy people who violently attack others from being put down. If society wants to protect these people then they should be screaming from the rooftops that they need 24/7 medical care and observation for the patients own safety, and that of every citizen in town.

Sending armed and poorly trained personnel to deal with crazy people is a losing game. Some kind of twisted circle of life while everyone up top sits back and watches the show. Means nothing to them or their bank account.

As you know The solution for “Crazy” people was to place them in mental Institutions and while it saved a lot of people from being hurt and the headaches of caring for them on the outside, people who didn’t ever have to deal with them decided it was wrong and unjust so they shut all these institutions down and instead hired people to counsel them and decide how much meds to feed them. In a lot of cases it’s far safer to just have these people sitting in a chair looking out the window at the trees while drooling on themselves. But Looking at it from a different angle I’m not so sure I’d want a loved one in that situation so it’s a part of society that is complex and difficult to find a happy medium on. No easy answers unless we paint them all with the same brush and warehouse them in a locked building.

 

[Dadstoys]

It would seem her own family was afraid of her to the point they had to involve someone else in the situation.
Well , someone else got involved.
No one is going to stand there and let someone knife them .
For those not aware of what the 20' rule is about , it's based on the minimum distance you would need to clear your holster and fire before you become a pin cushion when someone charges you with a knife.
In a room in a house you'd be lucky to get half that.
I feel bad for the woman and especially her kids , but the family called the cops , they didn't just show up out of the blue.
Some of the comments here are right up there in "Why didn't they just shoot the knife out of her hand ?" Territory .

 

[drgrant]

Part of the problem with mental illness like that is that it comes and goes in waves. It's like a roller coaster 1 minute she's probably manageable next minute she's full retard crazy.... in the old days she would be in the Looney Bin but still alive at least. Lots of heinous shit went on in those places but frankly they would have been better off trying to reform the hospitals instead of eliminating them. Most of the mass shootings and other forms of violence like that are basically a direct result of the demise of the loony bin..... basically thousands of people are set adrift with a jar of pills and when they stop taking them or the pills don't do s*** anymore then everything goes horribly off the rails. On a good day the patient gets restrained or tazed or whatever. On a bad day the patient gets shot. On a really bad day, multiple people die.

 

[ISOTOX]

So maybe a Net gun may be the answer on calls like this....Just saying.

 

[AHM]

So maybe a Net gun may be the answer on calls like this....Just saying.

Spoiler: Artist's conception

 

[Dennis in MA]

Well they did a good job of making sure she did not harm herself.
Pepper spray, taser, beanbag, talk her down and out of house?

I hear BPD is testing a new beanbag taser round that is coated with a disperse-on-impact pepper spray.

Honestly - blaming the cops here is just silly. If the sister thought she was that much of a danger that she needed police, maybe she should have hid the knives and other sharp objects.

 

[mrmike7189]

Dennis in MA said it best"Honestly - blaming the cops here is just silly. If the sister thought she was that much of a danger that she needed police, maybe she should have hid the knives and other sharp objects."
Exactly.!....get your house in order.
The woman had a knife, she probably lunged at the cops, in a nano second . If someone is within feet of you with a knife, you are already in big trouble, you are getting stabbed.

 

[mrmike7189]

So maybe a Net gun may be the answer on calls like this....Just saying.

Net gun !...........she had a knife, she would cut her way out! and cut you in the process of trying to restrain her. thats funny

 

[AHM]

Net gun !...........she had a knife, she would cut her way out! and cut you in the process of trying to restrain her. thats funny

Now you understand why
you have to follow up
with the flame thrower,
and then the Ice Cube System®.