Odd Long Range Shooting Question

[In God We Trust]

I know nothing on this subject, so excuse my ignorance. I was reading a book about an assassin who was setting up a hit with a scoped rifle. In the book he didn’t take it to a range and dial it in, but used some laser system to zero the rifle.

Is this possible or total fiction? I assume it’s BS.

Edit: in the book the shot was about 2 city blocks. 200m? (I figure)

 

[rcwhat]

Laser bore sight.

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[knoxy]

I suppose if he was zeroing it at specific distances where the ballistics intersect the bore axis, then maybe.

 

[paul73]

Reading books is good, but zeroing rifles in real life is way more fun.
Laser can be used initially at 25yds but each barrel is unique and has to be shot, ideally with a specific round of your choice at 50/100yds to get properly zeroed.
Looking through the barrel at target works better than a laser.

 

[JRT]

For a bolt gun I get it close by lining up the bore with the bull and then adjusting the scope.

 

[whacko]

I know nothing on this subject, so excuse my ignorance. I was reading a book about an assassin who was setting up a hit with a scoped rifle. In the book he didn’t take it to a range and dial it in, but used some laser system to zero the rifle.

Is this possible or total fiction? I assume it’s BS.

Edit: in the book the shot was about 2 city blocks. 200m? (I figure)

Lasers shoot a straight trajectory. Bullets do not.

 

[FiremanBob]

Probably the novel's author doesn't really understand how firearms work. But to give him the benefit of the doubt, if the shooter has intimate knowledge of how much drop his bullet has at specific distances, he could zero a laser to the scope at the desired distance and then dial in the correction for bullet drop.

But that knowledge would have come from extended practice using that rifle, sighting system, and cartridge to produce Data On Previous Experience (DOPE) for that setup. Make one change, such as different ammo with a different muzzle velocity, and you need all new DOPE for that load.

 

[StevieP]

At 200 meters, just about any centerfire rifle will be pretty damn close to point of impact = point of aim +/- a couple inches.

anyone using even open sights should be able to hit center of mass on a human sized target at that distance.

 

[paul73]

anyone using even open sights should be able to hit center of mass on a human sized target at that distance.

Yep, and with a deadliest assassin special caliber .22lr.

 

[tuna]

But the real assassin needs to use a switchblade to silently remove the sentry before going to the silenced .22.

You got to hit all the scary things.

 

[Road_Clam]

I know nothing on this subject, so excuse my ignorance. I was reading a book about an assassin who was setting up a hit with a scoped rifle. In the book he didn’t take it to a range and dial it in, but used some laser system to zero the rifle.

Is this possible or total fiction? I assume it’s BS.

Edit: in the book the shot was about 2 city blocks. 200m? (I figure)

A typical "laser" will only get you a "theoretical" bore axis line of sight zero at a close range of <50 yds (unless the bore sight laser was some type of high tech electronic range finding device that calculates ballistics and can produce the appropriate trajectory) . Remember as soon as a bullet leaves the barrel gravity takes over and the bullet starts dropping. In actuality your optic view is true line of sight at your target, but your barrel is physically pointed slightly "upwards" to offset the bullet drop.

 

[Arto]

If you want an awesome author who's a gun guy, try Stephen Hunter - his books are hard to put down

Stephen Hunter

Stephen Hunter has written over twenty novels. The retired chief film critic for The Washington Post, where he won the 2003 Pulitzer Prize for Distinguished Criticism, he has also published two collections of film criticism and a nonfiction work, American Gunfight. He lives in Baltimore, Maryland.

www.simonandschuster.com

Stephen Hunter - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Darksideblues42]

I know nothing on this subject, so excuse my ignorance. I was reading a book about an assassin who was setting up a hit with a scoped rifle. In the book he didn’t take it to a range and dial it in, but used some laser system to zero the rifle.

Is this possible or total fiction? I assume it’s BS.

Edit: in the book the shot was about 2 city blocks. 200m? (I figure)

Billy Summers?

 

[In God We Trust]

If you want an awesome author who's a gun guy, try Stephen Hunter - his books are hard to put down

Stephen Hunter

Stephen Hunter has written over twenty novels. The retired chief film critic for The Washington Post, where he won the 2003 Pulitzer Prize for Distinguished Criticism, he has also published two collections of film criticism and a nonfiction work, American Gunfight. He lives in Baltimore, Maryland.

www.simonandschuster.com

Stephen Hunter - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I’ve read just about all of those. Great books.

 

[In God We Trust]

Billy Summers?

Yes!

 

[Mountain]

I know nothing on this subject, so excuse my ignorance. I was reading a book about an assassin who was setting up a hit with a scoped rifle. In the book he didn’t take it to a range and dial it in, but used some laser system to zero the rifle.

Is this possible or total fiction? I assume it’s BS.

Edit: in the book the shot was about 2 city blocks. 200m? (I figure)

If he knew the bullet drop, which is easy at 200M, should be no problem to sight in at that distance using a laser bore sighter. Not optimum, but doable.

To put it in perspective, a bunch of us who regularly shoot service rifle matches (high power, CMP, etc.) can generally hold head-shot size groups prone with a sling at 200 yards using only iron sights.

 

[Admin]

If he knew the bullet drop, which is easy at 200M, should be no problem to sight in at that distance using a laser bore sighter. Not optimum, but doable.

To put it in perspective, a bunch of us who regularly shoot service rifle matches (high power, CMP, etc.) can generally hold head-shot size groups prone with a sling at 200 yards using only iron sights.

What professional assassin is going to risk missing a shot at 200 meters with a bore sight unconfirmed zero? I'm sure it can be done but that seems like a lot of unnecessary risk on the assassin's part. Or maybe I'm just more thorough with my plans.

 

[Mountain]

What professional assassin is going to risk missing a shot at 200 meters with a bore sight unconfirmed zero? I'm sure it can be done but that seems like a lot of unnecessary risk on the assassin's part. Or maybe I'm just more thorough with my plans.

Nobody legit would do it on purpose LOL. Just saying a lethal hit at 200M via a quality laser bore sight is totally plausible. Dumb, but not that difficult.

 

[Ron Jablonski]

I don't know if I'd trust a laser bore sight to be accurate out to 200m. I've seen tests where they mount the bore sighter to a lathe and spin it and you can see the laser on the wall making a circle as it spins. The only way it would work is if you could guarantee the laser was set perfectly straight in the sighter and the bore sight was centered perfect to the bore of the rifle. I think the odds of checking both those boxes are not very good.

 

[paul73]

I don't know if I'd trust a laser bore sight to be accurate out to 200m. I've seen tests where they mount the bore sighter to a lathe and spin it and you can see the laser on the wall making a circle as it spins. The only way it would work is if you could guarantee the laser was set perfectly straight in the sighter and the bore sight was centered perfect to the bore of the rifle. I think the odds of checking both those boxes are not very good.

same was when i tested it on my rifles - it was not sitting well in the bore. an ok thing to put it on the target at 25yds, but not much more than that.
plus, on longer distances - like on 100yds distance i could not see that laser dot on the target through the scope at all during day - it was totally washed out. a useless gizmo, more or less. may be there are more expensive ones that are actually useful, but those i had were not good at all.

 

[Mountain]

FWIW, one can sight through the bore of a bolt action and be on paper at 100.

 

[ReluctantDecoy]

I don't know if I'd trust a laser bore sight to be accurate out to 200m. I've seen tests where they mount the bore sighter to a lathe and spin it and you can see the laser on the wall making a circle as it spins. The only way it would work is if you could guarantee the laser was set perfectly straight in the sighter and the bore sight was centered perfect to the bore of the rifle. I think the odds of checking both those boxes are not very good.

I agree. I have a few, and they're hit/miss with precision and when they are off, they also aren't always off in the same direction, as it depends on how you insert it in the chamber which way is going to be off.

 

[cathouse01]

FWIW, one can sight through the bore of a bolt action and be on paper at 100.

You can even do it with an AR if you’ve got a decent rifle vise. Just take the upper off and pull the bolt carrier group and then put the upper in the vise and bore sight it. Since the optic is attached to the upper, you don’t really need the lower to bore sight the optic.

 

[Dennis in MA]

Ummm, I don't think he was bore-sighting. I think the lasers were adjusting the crosshairs. They have that now. IIRC, they can monitor wind as well. So the crosshairs just appear where they should within the scope. Crazy cutting edge stuff.

Talon Precision Optics - Next Generation Precision Optics

Next Generation Precision Optics

talonprecisionoptics.com

Hunter is pretty good. At times I do find problems with his gun stuff.

Worse is Vince Flynn. There has to be 4-5 firearm mistakes in every Rapp book. I really enjoy his writing, but the mistakes are glaring. He was not a gun guy.

 

[apander]

Probably the novel's author doesn't really understand how firearms work. But to give him the benefit of the doubt, if the shooter has intimate knowledge of how much drop his bullet has at specific distances, he could zero a laser to the scope at the desired distance and then dial in the correction for bullet drop.

But that knowledge would have come from extended practice using that rifle, sighting system, and cartridge to produce Data On Previous Experience (DOPE) for that setup. Make one change, such as different ammo with a different muzzle velocity, and you need all new DOPE for that load.

Learn something every day on NES, this explains my 1950's book "Practical DOPE on .22's " like .22 hornet etc. etc., mostly wildcats! Thanks FiremanBob

 

[Mountain]

Ummm, I don't think he was bore-sighting. I think the lasers were adjusting the crosshairs. They have that now. IIRC, they can monitor wind as well. So the crosshairs just appear where they should within the scope. Crazy cutting edge stuff.

Talon Precision Optics - Next Generation Precision Optics

Next Generation Precision Optics

talonprecisionoptics.com

Hunter is pretty good. At times I do find problems with his gun stuff.

Worse is Vince Flynn. There has to be 4-5 firearm mistakes in every Rapp book. I really enjoy his writing, but the mistakes are glaring. He was not a gun guy.

That's making more sense as tech for the storyline.

 

[Dennis in MA]

Yep. Saw a YT video last week of a guy that did it for a bow and arrow. He had motors mounted to move the bow around his left hand on an X-Y axis. Plus about 18 cameras all over the room. He could shoot an arrow at a moving target and hit it with consistency without looking. The computer took into account the movement of hte object and the location of the bow in space to quickly adjust the aim. Completely impractical, but a self-ranging scope was science fiction 20 years ago.

 

[Toast]

I would expect that the divergence of a small laser over 200 yards is going to create a fairly large dot.

 

[MisterHappy]

Learn something every day on NES, this explains my 1950's book "Practical DOPE on .22's " like .22 hornet etc. etc., mostly wildcats! Thanks FiremanBob

I believe that that's actually a bacronym,

Backronym - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

based on

Was "dope" originally an acronym? [Archive] - CMP Forums (Scroll down a bit, to the 5th post).

Kind of like "Russian RPG" does not stand for Rocket Propelled Grenade, but is from

hand-held anti-tank grenade launcher in Rusky-speak.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Reading books is good, but zeroing rifles in real life is way more fun.
Laser can be used initially at 25yds but each barrel is unique and has to be shot, ideally with a specific round of your choice at 50/100yds to get properly zeroed.
Looking through the barrel at target works better than a laser.

My Serbu BFG50A disassembles in a way that makes this very easy. I bore sighted at 100 yards setting the scope. Wanting to be perfectly safe, I let a friend take the first shot at 100 yards. He put the round through a 1"x1" target paster we put on the white side of a cardboard USPSA target at 100 yards without breaking the edge of the paster. No one else has ever duplicated that shot with that gun. It was like "You're done, your average score can only go down from here".