NYT: Here’s What We Can Do Now About Gun Violence

[MaverickNH]

Opinion | Here’s What We Can Do Now About Gun Violence

Fixing the background check system can be done today, but it will take work.

www.nytimes.com

“A more basic NICS flaw involves simply identifying the prospective gun buyer. In 2023, are we really going to continue to allow purchasers to show only a driver’s license, an easily and regularly forged document? Every college student in America who wants a beer has a forged driver’s license. As far back as 2001, investigators from what is now the Government Accountability Office were able to purchase firearms in five states using counterfeit licenses. Today’s technology — and common sense — argues that buyers should be required to provide fingerprints, which would be read at a gun store by a scanner and then searched in the F.B.I.’s computerized fingerprint database, which is operated closely with the states. Such checks can be completed within a few hours. I’ll stipulate that for successful purchasers, all traces of the search would need to be destroyed immediately to satisfy privacy concerns…

Gun policy progressives grouse that other proposed NICS changes could be more important — closing the loophole that exempts gun shows and private transactions from NICS and closing the so-called Charleston loophole, which forces the system to approve gun sales after three days even if investigators need more time to unearth relevant records, as happened in the massacre there. Fair enough. But those issues at this time are politically gridlocked. That’s a fact.

But closing other NICS loopholes is a task within our grasp. Isn’t that more important than watching helplessly as the death toll continues to grow?"

This author, Gordon Wilson, somehow thinks that a better NICS background check system will stop mass shootings. It wouldn’t even make a noticeable dent in garden-variety one-at-a-time suicides and homicides. Fake IDs and fingerprints? A solution in search of a problem. And he’s stealing one of Trump’s taglines!

"What kind of shithole country gives more rights to a gun than to a woman?" Gordon Wilson

 

[Admin]

Gordon Wilson can EABOD. I guarantee he's a pillow biter.

 

[71montess]

So how many people use fake documents to buy a gun ? Is it a problem ?

 

[StevieP]

Better to Remain Silent Lurk and Be Thought a Fool than to Speak put your opinion on-line and Remove All Doubt​

updated for 2023

 

[Zappa]

Gordon Wilson can EABOD. I guarantee he's a pillow biter.

Can you still say that ???
I think the PC term these days is "power bottom".

 

[snax]

Can you still say that ???
I think the PC term these days is "power bottom".

Always sunny covered this pretty good

View: https://youtu.be/Uc9_mxvP1K0

 

[Reptile]

This is too confusing for me.

All I know are Bears and Twinks.

I heard that transportation guy who looks like Mad Magazine is a power bottom. I'm still trying to understand what this means.

 

[drgrant]

Although it's kind of amusing that somebody finally actually talked about that flaw. (Faked Id's make nics a joke) the problem is as I've stated another threads on here is you can't really fix that problem without creating additional violation of civil rights in the process. Every possible thing that "will improve background checks" is either another (worse) violation or infringement. Part of the problem is background checks are incongruent with our justice system. The law is supposed to assume that you are innocent by default unless proven otherwise. The idea that you have to ask the government permission to exercise a right (as a person that isnt otherwise incarcerated or on probation) is basically assinine on its face. If someone is too dangerous to be allowed to buy a gun they shouldn't be f***ing allowed to roam around in our society.

 

[T-Unit]

Wait, so does the NICS check not check the age of the buyer, it's simply a "Is this person a criminal with past convictions or plea deals?" system?

One thing that might actually work is if states did their own check because after the Sutherland Springs shooting it's obvious that you can't expect any gov't entity no matter how big or small to do their job. The problem there will be it won't be an instant check because states aren't going to be willing to spend money for an instant check system operating 7 days a week. Any delay is one I'm not willing to accept.

 

[Boghog1]

Maybe the fingerprint idea should be tried out with voting and if successful we could apply it to other rights.

 

[eboos]

Can you still say that ???
I think the PC term these days is "power bottom".

That sounds like the result of my first cup of morning coffee.

 

[AFAR/PFAR]

Meh, I wouldn't bother giving articles like that the validation of a click.

They all say the same thing and are always anti constitutional.

 

[milktree]

So how many people use fake documents to buy a gun ? Is it a problem ?

Exactly.

I was talking to a Canadian this weekend who espoused the virtues of the Canadian ban on .50 BMG rifles and ammo - because they’re military sniper rifles.

But I don’t think anyone has ever been murdered in the US with a 50 BMG ever; and we have a lot more people.

Exactly what problem are they solving with this ban?

 

[42!]

Wait, so does the NICS check not check the age of the buyer, it's simply a "Is this person a criminal with past convictions or plea deals?" system?

One thing that might actually work is if states did their own check because after the Sutherland Springs shooting it's obvious that you can't expect any gov't entity no matter how big or small to do their job. The problem there will be it won't be an instant check because states aren't going to be willing to spend money for an instant check system operating 7 days a week. Any delay is one I'm not willing to accept.

Ah... NH ring a bell

 

[T-Unit]

Ah... NH ring a bell

NH isn't New Jersey or Alabama. I just don't want any states with a bullshit 10 day or 7 (really 8) day delay.

 

[jkelly1229]

So how many people use fake documents to buy a gun ? Is it a problem ?

Heh...i know one guy who did if we want to go arrest him... resides on his dad's couch at 1600 pennsylvania avenue Washington dc

 

[AFAR/PFAR]

Ah... NH ring a bell

We saw the fallacies of the NH system during the scamdemic.

The legislature tried to fix it, but certain entities got in the way.

I wonder if anyone held up by that had a basis for a lawsuit. I know I had two purchases that turned into a baked in waiting period due to NH's incompetence.

 

[Dennis in MA]

"What kind of shithole country gives more rights to a gun than to a woman?" Gordon Wilson

Hold up. You need a license for your woman??? Damn. I never got one for my wife OR my two daughters. I hope the BWATFE doesn't come coming storming into my house.

 

[JJC]

Exactly.

I was talking to a Canadian this weekend who espoused the virtues of the Canadian ban on .50 BMG rifles and ammo - because they’re military sniper rifles.

But I don’t think anyone has ever been murdered in the US with a 50 BMG ever; and we have a lot more people.

Exactly what problem are they solving with this ban?

I can tell you the only thing my .50 bmg has killed has been my boredom. No matter how despondent stress makes me, punching divots in the berm brings a stupid grin to my face.

 

[namedpipes]

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/21/opinion/guns-fbi-backgound-nics.html

“A more basic NICS flaw involves simply identifying the prospective gun buyer. In 2023, are we really going to continue to allow purchasers to show only a driver’s license, an easily and regularly forged document? Every college student in America who wants a beer has a forged driver’s license. As far back as 2001, investigators from what is now the Government Accountability Office were able to purchase firearms in five states using counterfeit licenses.

https://www.terryhesslaw.com/blog/2019/08/can-the-real-id-cards-help-stop-fake-ids/

The REAL ID has special security features and an RFID chip. These things make it incredibly difficult if not impossible to duplicate or tamper with an ID. Getting one of these new IDs requires providing four forms of identification. This can include your current driver’s license, your Social Security card, your birth certificate or court records. You must show proof of any name change, if your name is not the same as on your birth certificate. This documentation requirement will also make it more difficult for someone to get an ID unlawfully.

Since most people now have the RealID, we can simply dump all other ids and link ALL licensures to the same card.

I'm a natural problem solver.

Although I specialize in solutions that would cause more problems in the long run.

 

[Grendizer138]

“and closing the so-called Charleston loophole, which forces the system to approve gun sales after three days even if investigators need more time to unearth relevant records,”

What could go wrong?

 

[Mesatchornug]

Since most people now have the RealID, we can simply dump all other ids and link ALL licensures to the same card.

I'm a natural problem solver.

Although I specialize in solutions that would cause more problems in the long run.

So my passport card is my LTC? Does it have international reciprocity?

 

[namedpipes]

So my passport card is my LTC? Does it have international reciprocity?

Yes, with the exception of the two Chinas and everywhere else in the world.

 

[amm5061]

“and closing the so-called Charleston loophole, which forces the system to approve gun sales after three days even if investigators need more time to unearth relevant records,”

What could go wrong?

How can you close a loophole that doesn't f***ing exist? That a**h*** got cleared because the f***ing FBI didn't do it's f***ing job right!

 

[MaverickNH]

The law is supposed to assume that you are innocent by default unless proven otherwise.

Like it or not, there are federal/state laws describing who can buy/possess firearms. It seems simple - if you HAVE been disqualified to buy/possess a firearm by the Form 4473 standards - no firearm for you. In practice, it’s trying to get 50 state governments to meet content and timing expectations, which they each delegate to different systems (local/county/state police, all the various courts, all the various health systems, etc.) Layer on the federal military branches, 50 state national guards, US State Department and self-identification as a habitual user of controlled drugs and NICS is no better than you’d expect. Think elections - some locales count and validate 99.99% of votes cast on Election Day while other take weeks, despite early voting/mail-in and flimsy ID requirements. Where do authorities spend the money? Housing immigrants…

That said, if NICS were near PERFECT, there’d be hardly any dent in crime. Many, like this NYT author, conflate NICS with Universal Background Checks, thinking if NICS were perfect, some supercomputer could run a check on every gun owner periodically, so guns could be rounded up as disqualifications pop up in records. Even in CA, which actually does just this periodic check, they are 10s of thousands behind in that roundup, despite spending $10s of millions annually, and are falling further behind every year.

Criminals directly obtaining guns from FFLs is not “low hanging fruit”. Criminals obtaining guns by criminal means? If you could catch that you could catch the criminals otherwise. The conviction rate for murder in 2020 was ~20%, aggravated assault <10%, rape <1%.

The idea that you have to ask the government permission to exercise a right (as a person that isn’t otherwise incarcerated or on probation) is basically asinine on its face. If someone is too dangerous to be allowed to buy a gun they shouldn't be f***ing allowed to roam around in our society.

Those stories from NYC gun courts note that most arrested and tried in court are Black males who have not been convicted of serious crimes. I guess that means totally evading the NICS and CCW permitting system is OK, as long as you are not a violent felon? The push to not prosecute such individuals drives police disinterest in arresting them at all. The vast majority of criminals are not caught and many of those that are caught are turned loose again to serve the causes of social justice and equity They then find another gun. Many of these low-level criminals DO need protection from one another.

 

[rep308]

and the solution is to buy more guns and ammo. Talk to your friend and family to get them licensed. Every bleeping time they say there are too many guns, BUY MORE.

and don't forget the ammo

 

[ridleyman]

Clearly, the answer is to do what NY is trying to do, as it's quite a success.

1.) deny law abiding folks the ability to defend themselves
2.) ban guns
3.) release felons into society so they get a 2nd, 3rd, 4th........chance, especially the violent ones
4.) embrace racist policies like defund the police and no school choice
5.) stop teaching academic subjects, and stick to woke ed
6.) raise taxes
7.) make starting businesses an onerous, bureaucratic hell
8.) elect socialists

That's it! Now go out and enjoy your city, until you get killed, that is!

 

[paul73]

So my passport card is my LTC? Does it have international reciprocity?

the idea of new 'real id' was to address it all, as it was supposed to be interlinked with a whole system of crosschecks and merge your data for gestapo to see the entire picture.
plus link it to biometrics.

and they think by 2025 it will indeed begin to crank. the goal is really like in movies - for a system like evolv or similar to link the image it gets to a factual IDed person

 

[Kevin_NH]

So his solution to a tiny minority of gun buyers being PP and successfully hiding that fact is to fingerprint everybody???
Seems to me there's a better way to address the problem, one which only impacts of the members of the "prohibited person" class...

the idea of new 'real id' was to address it all, as it was supposed to be interlinked with a whole system of crosschecks and merge your data for gestapo to see the entire picture. plus link it to biometrics.

Anything with the "Real ID" gold star is already setup with digital signatures and a backend database with your photograph, etc (same concept as on passports)
Difficulty is that only the TSA and a few government buildings have the equipment to read the card, much less the login to check it against the database.

and the solution is to buy more guns and ammo. Talk to your friend and family to get them licensed. Every bleeping time they say there are too many guns, BUY MORE.
and don't forget the ammo

Move to a state with neither licensure nor paperwork on private transfers, buy more, sell a few, break the paperwork trail.
BECOME UNGOVERNABLE.
and don't forget the reloading equipment

 

[paul73]

Anything with the "Real ID" gold star is already setup with digital signatures and a backend database with your photograph, etc (same concept as on passports)
Difficulty is that only the TSA and a few government buildings have the equipment to read the card, much less the login to check it against the database.

it is only temporarily technical roadblock, easily resolvable.
we all here will live under an AI powered 24x7 mass surveillance systems within our lifetime, with tracking cameras everywhere. it will simply become part of life, and kids who already live now with no sense of privacy will be fine with it.

damn, i am myself guilty as f#ck as i track both my kids constantly with the gps in their phones, and they both know it and do not object. so it is all going to be seamless for them when .gov will be doing all the same.