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NYT Essay - A Gun Killed My Son, So Why Do I Want to Own One?
- Thread starter citoriguy
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I read it too. I was impressed. I wish there were more people like him, who were willing to cross the line and try to understand the other side of the gun issue. I don't know how we might be able to resolve the argument, but I'm quite sure that no resolution will be found as long as both sides are simply talking past each other.
citoriguy
NES Member
No way you read the article, let alone in the 16 minutes I had posted it. He actually purchased guns, and will continue on with becoming a more proficient shooter, all while thinking about solutions that respect both sides of the issue. Also while being wholly cognizant of how he lost his own son.
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I read it earlier.... it seems alittle different then your typical propaganda..... guy seems halfbin the closet ..... can’t admit to himself he’s gay for guns...
Honestly if more people did what he claims to have done we’d have more people on our side
Honestly if more people did what he claims to have done we’d have more people on our side
boilermaker
NES Member
Read the article then make a comment
I assume most people who lose a loved one to something like suicide or murder involving a gun like to blame the gun because they feel they can actually do something about an object rather than humanity itself. This guy made way for some logic though.
This was a long, but worthwhile read. Gibson has been one of the most virulent antis out there. That fact that he's made the effort to 'get it' is commendable.
If they ever get what they want with guns the same people with move onto motorcycles, fast cars, or other dangerous toys typically not owned by city dwellers, then eventually will promote weed products and lounges until it becomes the norm - then will go after cigarettes and alchohol, then salt and cholesterol in our diets, "violent" sports, weight lifting, caffeine, gum chewing
.. but thats nothing to do with the article.The problem is if you believe a right to bear arms is real and exists to afford us some medium of protection from the goverment then there is no way to find common ground with someone who thinks gun rights do not exist or exist only for personal protection, hunting, or competitive shooting.
I always thought the Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs metaphor was some gun-nut Mythology, but I'll have to checkout Colonel Grossman's work.
The Sheep are worse than real sheep. Real Sheep run away from Wolves and have a vague acknowledgement of Sheepdog's protecting them. Human Sheep actually are hastening their own demise by celebrating the Wolves and having contempt for the Sheepdogs, and that's really f***ed up.
The Sheep are worse than real sheep. Real Sheep run away from Wolves and have a vague acknowledgement of Sheepdog's protecting them. Human Sheep actually are hastening their own demise by celebrating the Wolves and having contempt for the Sheepdogs, and that's really f***ed up.
Nick Fury
NES Member
My take was not so much that he is trying to "get it" as the article implied but to pitch an improved version of "common sense gun control". And the fact that the NYT printed this novella only solidifies that notion...
Good read though.
EC1
NES Member
at the end of the article these paragraphs bothered me
"I think I’ll keep shooting. I enjoy it, and I want to see whether I can become more efficient and more accurate. And I’ll resume my advocacy work, but I’m going to go about it differently. As with school safety, there are things we can do to reduce gun deaths. Some of them will require education and cultural change, some can be addressed through legislation. Would every Second Amendment zealot have to lose a child in a preventable gun death to understand the sense in this?
It’s a terrible thought, and one I don’t need to think. I’m thinking instead of Jimmy Meeks’s God telling his flock that they were the answer. More than 125,000 people a year are killed or wounded by guns in America, and each of them is surrounded by friends, relatives and loved ones — a million people a year whose lives will never be the same because of that experience.
According to one poll, 58 percent of American adults have said that they or someone they care for has experienced gun violence. Those are the people I want to talk with now. That’s my church."
after all he's still advocating (at least in part) a legislative approach, ignoring the mental health issues, and will be targeting the vulnerable people (his church). the underlined parts are mine.
"I think I’ll keep shooting. I enjoy it, and I want to see whether I can become more efficient and more accurate. And I’ll resume my advocacy work, but I’m going to go about it differently. As with school safety, there are things we can do to reduce gun deaths. Some of them will require education and cultural change, some can be addressed through legislation. Would every Second Amendment zealot have to lose a child in a preventable gun death to understand the sense in this?
It’s a terrible thought, and one I don’t need to think. I’m thinking instead of Jimmy Meeks’s God telling his flock that they were the answer. More than 125,000 people a year are killed or wounded by guns in America, and each of them is surrounded by friends, relatives and loved ones — a million people a year whose lives will never be the same because of that experience.
According to one poll, 58 percent of American adults have said that they or someone they care for has experienced gun violence. Those are the people I want to talk with now. That’s my church."
after all he's still advocating (at least in part) a legislative approach, ignoring the mental health issues, and will be targeting the vulnerable people (his church). the underlined parts are mine.
Exactly. This guy has gone from a fudd to an anti and back to a fudd - used to hunt, owns guns, shoots guns, but will continue on with his anti-gun advocacy. I give him credit for trying to "get it" but he ultimately didn't. Hell, even if it was possible to reach the sort of gray middle ground between gun rights and gun control that he's talking about, it would still be yet another step deeper into infringement (on top of the 20k+ gun laws we already have), and the next anti would just keep pushing the envelope further. Meanwhile, criminals still won't give a damn about a single one of these laws.
I started reading this piece hoping to find the story of an anti who learned about guns and saw the light. Instead it was a story of an anti who learned about guns and went "eh, they're fun I guess" and then continued his gun control work.
The read gave me a bit more insight on the teacher concealed carry, some would be fine , some would not be. We are all different, it depends on the individual. The question would be , who gives the permission to the teacher, ...? One possibility on school faculty carry, have that person become a part time police officer, or is there a way to deputize said person via county sheriff?
What makes a teacher different from an engineer, a lawyer, a plumber, a doctor, a mechanic, a real estate agent, etc? Either we all have rights or none of us do and any discussion about extra qualifications for teachers who want to carry at school (just like they do outside of school) opens up the door to further restrictions on all of us.
"Focusing on legislation as a means of reducing gun deaths felt to me like a project for white people — detached from the ways in which systemic racism and economic exclusion drove gun violence. "
I was kinda getting sucked into his writing, until those words of an elitist and racist. His conclusion was then unexpected.
I was kinda getting sucked into his writing, until those words of an elitist and racist. His conclusion was then unexpected.
johnnymac101
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Interesting article. That last paragraph has me thinking he is a little less "friend" and a little more "foe" after gaining some knowledge of the gun community.
"According to one poll, 58 percent of American adults have said that they or someone they care for has experienced gun violence. Those are the people I want to talk with now. That’s my church."
I see this as "I'll stop arguing with gun nuts and start recruiting the ones left behind!
"According to one poll, 58 percent of American adults have said that they or someone they care for has experienced gun violence. Those are the people I want to talk with now. That’s my church."
I see this as "I'll stop arguing with gun nuts and start recruiting the ones left behind!
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My entirely uninformed guess is that such people have a tendency to assume that if the gun hadn't been there, the victim would still be alive. Which is a perfectly understandable reaction. It just overlooks the fact that there are dozens of other ways to commit suicide, using items that no one would even think of as a weapon.
I certainly agree that there's no room for common ground between us here and someone who thinks gun rights don't exist. However, I'm also no fan of the current situation. It seems to me that both sides are assuming that this argument will end only with unconditional surrender by one side or the other. This guy is at least willing to question that assumption. How can that be a bad thing?
In a way, he reminds me of an activist out in Arizona that I read about a few years ago. That gent was very angry about an incident where a cop had shot a suspected drug dealer after a bust went bad. But instead of just yelling about it, he had the guts to go to the police and take a routine 'potential use of force' training class, which was designed to show just how hard it can be for a cop to tell when lethal force is or isn't required. Afterward he still thought the police had screwed up, but he had a better understanding of the cop's point of view.
I thought his reaction was a little more pro-gun than that.
Based on my values I see no middle ground. Magazine limit? Nope. AWB ? Nope.. Fed license? Nope. UBC? Oh hell no...
What do you propose? I think the problem with progressive dreamers is they assume all atrocities have a solution - and really that can never be true in this world. Some problems can't be solved or the cure is worse than the disease.
Devils Paintbrush
NES Member
Based on the couple of clues from the article, I would suspect the author is either a NES member or knows someone who is.
First off, there is probably nothing worse than losing a family member to some form of violence, especially when you have no control over it.
My life is very simple...I like, shoot and collect guns. That's it. I don't want anything else from anyone and prefer to be left alone.
I am not a homicidal maniac nor are my guns. Tragedy happens every day, the guy that gets smashed on the highway in an accident, electrocution or millions of other ways to die a horrible death. Nobody bats an eye (or cares) for hundreds of different ways people die every day.
Did you hear about this one in Mexico five days ago...23 dead in a bus crash? No, it is still a tragedy but not reported the same way.
At least 23 people killed in Mexico bus crash - CNN
No one has a right to tell me to give up my things or property because of YOUR tragedy. If you think I will willingly give up my guns it is not going to happen.
People can play what if over and over again, doesn't change anything. Here is my what if...maybe if the rest of the world had jumped all over Germany when they occupied the Sudetenland before WWII it may have never happened (at least the European part). My theory is just as good as a world without guns and neither of those two ideas will ever be proven.
This is why I will never give in to gun grabbers. Another day and another chance to get my way and make legally owned firearms illegal.
Props for trying to learn what I know about guns, but you came full circle and think teachers should not be armed.
That is not really your choice to make. When confronted by a determined attacker, your ONLY salvation will be quick thinking or a firearm or both.
First off, there is probably nothing worse than losing a family member to some form of violence, especially when you have no control over it.
My life is very simple...I like, shoot and collect guns. That's it. I don't want anything else from anyone and prefer to be left alone.
I am not a homicidal maniac nor are my guns. Tragedy happens every day, the guy that gets smashed on the highway in an accident, electrocution or millions of other ways to die a horrible death. Nobody bats an eye (or cares) for hundreds of different ways people die every day.
Did you hear about this one in Mexico five days ago...23 dead in a bus crash? No, it is still a tragedy but not reported the same way.
At least 23 people killed in Mexico bus crash - CNN
No one has a right to tell me to give up my things or property because of YOUR tragedy. If you think I will willingly give up my guns it is not going to happen.
People can play what if over and over again, doesn't change anything. Here is my what if...maybe if the rest of the world had jumped all over Germany when they occupied the Sudetenland before WWII it may have never happened (at least the European part). My theory is just as good as a world without guns and neither of those two ideas will ever be proven.
This is why I will never give in to gun grabbers. Another day and another chance to get my way and make legally owned firearms illegal.
Props for trying to learn what I know about guns, but you came full circle and think teachers should not be armed.
That is not really your choice to make. When confronted by a determined attacker, your ONLY salvation will be quick thinking or a firearm or both.
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silversquirrel
NES Member
Guy is permanently grieving for his son and sister, looking for answers, cant get past blaming the gun. Not faulting him for that.
Hes been traumatized. PTSD, attempting to cope.
He sounds like a writer / pseudo intellectual seeking therapy in words.
He is trying to find answers to a question that has no answer. Why did they have to die. If only... etc etc.
He thinks a gun killed his son. Title of the essay.
No. An insane person killed his son. And the sister clearly had mental problems, to take her own life.
Blaming the gun is the typical easy answer. Why does a previously sane person go off the deep end? Not so easy to answer, even for a shrink.
Hes been traumatized. PTSD, attempting to cope.
He sounds like a writer / pseudo intellectual seeking therapy in words.
He is trying to find answers to a question that has no answer. Why did they have to die. If only... etc etc.
He thinks a gun killed his son. Title of the essay.
No. An insane person killed his son. And the sister clearly had mental problems, to take her own life.
Blaming the gun is the typical easy answer. Why does a previously sane person go off the deep end? Not so easy to answer, even for a shrink.
