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NYPD Officer NOT Indicted for Chokehold Death of Eric Garner
- Thread starter mikes45
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There's been a ton of BS spread about this case. The guy was not choked - he was still talking when they had him on the ground. With a history of obesity, heart problems and diabetes, he decided to fight with the cops. After they got him under control he died of cardiac failure in the ambulance. Simple lesson - when the man says you're under arrest, STFU and go quietly and take your chances in court. How much jail time would he have gotten for selling illegal Marlboros?
Sad for the family, but they (and their lawyers) will have some comfort in the big payoff from the the taxpayers of NY.
Sad for the family, but they (and their lawyers) will have some comfort in the big payoff from the the taxpayers of NY.
Fail.
typically i'm not one to go around flaming NESers, but your post is disturbing.
1. why the hell did NYPD need to arrest this man in the first place? for selling cigarettes? Fail for NYPD.
2. people don't just lose their airway for no reason. the police used force and compromised his airway. failure to ventilate -> ventilatory arrest -> dead. Again, fail for NYPD.
3. claiming he had heart problems and diabetes? based on what? this has absolutely no bearing on airway compromise. since you're a physician, perhaps you could explain this connection? speculative and irrelevant at best.
anyone...I repeat anyone...does this to another human and it's murder....for NYPD it's just cutting another check from the taxpayer's checkbook. fail x100
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After the fiasco ensued, his medical records showed that he had both diabetes and a heart condition. They had to release that after his death in the ambulance, after the autopsy proved his airway hadn't been ruptured. Dude shouldn't have even been involved in a pillow fight.
Though I find selling loose cigarettes akin to jay walking (baffling that they're crimes) I think the people needed to be accosted most here, are the moron politicians that enacted any laws making same illegal.
I see, the whole "if you can speak, you can breathe" thing. Talk about spreading BS...
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/...ious-Myth-Of-If-You-Can-Speak-You-Can-Breathe
I'm with Woodstock. Garner was one flight of stairs away from the same fate. It was unforeseeable that the officers actions would have caused his death, as they would be perfectly safe with the vast majority of the population.
Choking someone for 7 seconds doesn't kill them unless they're already on death's door.
1) NYPD doesn't make laws.
2) Use of force could not have compromised his airway for more than 7 seconds. There was no damage to his airway, not even bruising.
3) He didn't die from airway compromise. After the officer lets go he continues to say "I can't breathe" over and over, yet the autopsy showed a clear and healthy airway. This is because his long list of health issues combined with the exertion and stress of the situation, not the officer's use of force, were preventing his breathing.
If someone dies from a taser because they have a heart condition which is unknown to the officer, it is homicide. It is not murder.
Same thing with this case.
Choking someone for 7 seconds doesn't kill them unless they're already on death's door.
1) NYPD doesn't make laws.
2) Use of force could not have compromised his airway for more than 7 seconds. There was no damage to his airway, not even bruising.
3) He didn't die from airway compromise. After the officer lets go he continues to say "I can't breathe" over and over, yet the autopsy showed a clear and healthy airway. This is because his long list of health issues combined with the exertion and stress of the situation, not the officer's use of force, were preventing his breathing.
If someone dies from a taser because they have a heart condition which is unknown to the officer, it is homicide. It is not murder.
Same thing with this case.
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A blood choke, you're going out pretty quickly, but as long as it's released when you lose consciousness you're coming back pretty quickly also. That wasn't the case here.
Airway, it takes awhile to actually put someone in a dangerous situation, provided they aren't obese, asthmatic, and suffering heart problems.
Really, we can argue about whether he was really choked, or if the officer just used his neck as a high point of leverage to get his 300+lb frame to the ground.
The NYPD is not allowed to take people down by the neck or choke people. The officer shouldn't have done it because it is against the policy of his department because of situations like this.
I don't agree with the officer's actions, but i agree with the GJ in that this was not a criminal act.
Nice to hear from the liberal "cops murdered the guy" crowd. Garner was arrested because he wasn't paying the NYC cigarette tax, the business tax, the income tax, you name it. NYC politicians need to make sure the cash keeps flowing. Also, he was doing it right in front of a bodega that was paying said taxes and they called the cops.
I didn't make the call on whether he was choked - the NY coroner, the investigators who watched every second of the video in slo-mo and every neutral observer came to the same conclusion. That's why the cop wasn't indicted. If there had been any choking, DeBlasio and his hand-picked commissioners would have hung the cop out to dry.
Being taken down with a neck hold doesn't cause cardiac arrest. Being a 300 pound diabetic with a bad heart and choosing to duke it out with a bunch of cops can have that result.
The city admitted no culpability. They decided it would be cheaper to fork out $6M than have riots like Baltimore and Ferguson.
I didn't make the call on whether he was choked - the NY coroner, the investigators who watched every second of the video in slo-mo and every neutral observer came to the same conclusion. That's why the cop wasn't indicted. If there had been any choking, DeBlasio and his hand-picked commissioners would have hung the cop out to dry.
Being taken down with a neck hold doesn't cause cardiac arrest. Being a 300 pound diabetic with a bad heart and choosing to duke it out with a bunch of cops can have that result.
The city admitted no culpability. They decided it would be cheaper to fork out $6M than have riots like Baltimore and Ferguson.
Ive been choked out by blood but not by airway.
You have maybe 10 seconds, if they really have you. If you dont tap and fail to get out of it, its nap time. In my case it was a little teenage backyard sparring with a guy who had 60lbs on me and i wasn't giving up.
Then you wake up maybe 15 seconds later a little confused and go on with your day.
I wouldn't want to be choked out by airway. Thats a long process, and probably sucks. Thats also the type of thing that will cause bruising/damage to the trachea and other parts of the throat.
I wish they would deduct the cost of his prior incarcerations from his families payout. A turd from a turd family, drains on society. But now his family "got paid", and will be movin on up to the East Side. Think this is the last we'll be hearing from them?
Now every two bit thug will take a run at the police hoping to cash in.
Stand by for more fun![[rolleyes]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/042.gif "Roll Eyes [rolleyes]")
Sadly yes. Why not? After all get just a little bit on camera and you can make up any story you want. It will spread like wild fire on Internet forums with people that buy the hype. They judge without knowing. They judge based on a shirt BS video that shows little to no facts and then they call for the cops head.
I think it's funny how the same people that say to stop listening to the brainwashing media fall into the same trap with these videos.
Sent from my mobile phone from behind enemy lines.
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Raise their feet, and it's "Wow I'm all tingly."
I happen to prefer choking people with clothing... A Gi like we do in class. You can still breathe, somewhat restricted, but when the world starts collapsing from the pressure on the carotids... That's when the tap comes.
Whatevs. This is such old news at this point.
1. didn't duke it out with the cops. The a$$hole cop escalated it, end. of. story.
2. the a-hole cop in question, used. a. typical. choke. hold. That hold crushed his trachea, thus death. Using the "he was fat" is pathetic, at best.
He was selling loosies, of which ALL THE TAXES have already been paid if he bought the packs from whence they came. Unless they were stolen...can anybody say he stole them?
This was murder, simple. NYC paid off their debt to keep a coward protected, is all it came down to. If this cop ends up face down in a bog, he earned it.
When the inmates run the asylum
For starters, let's consider for a moment that Mr.Garner was breaking the law. Selling "loosies" is not punishable by death, no now let's add resisting arrest, assaulting a LEO, and causing a public disturbance. All of this could have been avoided if a career criminal was in prison where he belongs.
For starters, let's consider for a moment that Mr.Garner was breaking the law. Selling "loosies" is not punishable by death, no now let's add resisting arrest, assaulting a LEO, and causing a public disturbance. All of this could have been avoided if a career criminal was in prison where he belongs.
They stood there and watched him stop breathing. He probably had a pulse for a few more minutes. All they had to do was sit him up and let him breathe!!! They were standing watching his last breath and even waited till his heart stopped and still did nothing.
They'd never say it because they wouldn't need to speculate. He either would have or wouldn't have been fine them having already performed it, as opposed to not.
You may notice in the majority of videos when police use force appropriately they seem quick to provide or attempt to provide medical care. In incidents where their actions are unnecessary, excessive, and criminal, they hardly ever make even an effort. It's a pretty good balancing test IMO. Render aid? Probably appropriate use of force. Fail to render aid? Probably criminal. Not always, but loads of examples support that.
You may notice in the majority of videos when police use force appropriately they seem quick to provide or attempt to provide medical care. In incidents where their actions are unnecessary, excessive, and criminal, they hardly ever make even an effort. It's a pretty good balancing test IMO. Render aid? Probably appropriate use of force. Fail to render aid? Probably criminal. Not always, but loads of examples support that.
pastera
NES Member
Not really -> the "I can't breath" statements were really "I feel like I can't breath" in truth. The guy's heart had already gone south and his brain was reacting to the symptom of decreasing O2 saturation.
Also
http://www.todayshospitalist.com/index.php?b=articles_read&cnt=1472
In God We Trust
NES Member
Glad there is some sanity in this thread. If he hadn't resisted arrest he would still be alive. That's the key point. All the rest is just anti government BS
You just made the case for "perception is reality". Police are perceived as useful...or good....or helpful. Any questions?
His lack of O2 were a direct result of this a-hole cutting off his wind...in a choke hold (as upheld by the coroner). Thus, murder, because the <beep> knew it was illegal, and he did it anyway.
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yes, a 300lb fat man "resisted" against 3-5 cops who were there ready to escalate the situation to justify whatever they did. JFC, you <beeeeeeeep> amaze me sometimes.
![[rofl2]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/035.gif "ROFL2 [rofl2]")
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pastera
NES Member
I don't agree with an arrest for selling "loosies".
However, the cop didn't choke him out nor were his actions "illegal". The takedown by the neck was definitely against policy but not law.
The guy was speaking repeatedly therefore his airway was not occluded. His ability to process the air was severely hampered by his poor health and exertion while resisting. Remove either factor (health or resistance) and there would be no issue.
So I'm a statist bootlicker for pointing out facts?
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