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NRA's Marksmanship Qualification Program

Discussion in 'Competition Shooting General' started by matt, Sep 26, 2006.

  1. matt

    matt

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    In another thread it was mentioned that Derek is a Distinguished Expert in Rifle, and is well on his way to becoming a Distinguished Expert in Pistol also.

    I'm curious how many other shooters here participate in the NRA's Marksmanship Qualification Program?

    I've considered starting into it as a way to track my progress. (I'll need alot of progress to catch up to Derek).
     

  2. Admin

    Admin Staff Member Administrator Moderator NES Member

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    Different types of distinguished. The military uses the CMP distinguished program. http://www.odcmp.com/Competitions.htm

    Here is how the points are broken down in a CMP Leg match http://northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=306

    You can shoot 3 leg matches a year, 4 if one match is the National Championship. If you place in the top for medals you get points. After you have totaled 30 or more points, with one of the medals being at least a silver you will become distinguished.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2006
  3. Jose

    Jose Guest

    There is some confusion about the NRA Marksmanship Qualification Program, the NRA Highpower Rifle classifications, and the CMP Excellence In Competition Program.

    The NRA Marksmanship Qualification Program is the least rigorous. It is meant primarily for people not engaged in formal competition, though scores from NRA Highpower Rifle and Conventional Pistol competition are allowed for Qualification. The thresholds for each qualification are pretty low compared to those used in NRA Highpower Rifle shooter classification.

    From the program's page:
    Shooters competing in formal NRA target rifle and pistol disciplines have their scores tracked by the NRA and shooter classifications are issued based on a rolling 240 shot average reduced to percentages. The classifications can only be earned in NRA approved competition and the thresholds are significantly higher than those of the Marksmanship Qualification Program. As said before, the highest tier of marksmanship qualification coincided with the second lowest (Sharpshooter) competitive classification. You still have Expert, Master, and High Master to go. I believe Derek, like me, is a Master in Highpower Rifle.

    The CMP's Excellence In Competition (EIC) program is the most rigorous and prestigious rifleman and handgunner competition program in the US. To earn the Distinguished Rifleman's badge, one must earn at least 30 points in EIC competition. Points are awarded in 10, 8, or 6 point increments depending on one's finishing order among the top 10% non-distinguished shooters in a particular match. Also, at least one of the 30 points must be a 10 or 8 point award (aka a hard leg). Just getting by with 6 point awards is not going to cut it. Finish below the to 10%, sorry, try again. To compound the difficulty, CMP EIC matches have no sighting shots and only 50 shots for record (which makes recovering from a mistake all that much more difficult).

    Since Derek had earned EIC points as a Marine, he was awarded the US Marine Corps Distinguished Marksman badge. That is the equivalent of the civilian Distinguished Rifleman award.
     
  4. cigarlover

    cigarlover

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    Is there a list of approved rifles that can be used? Is there a preferred rifle?
     
  5. cdkayak

    cdkayak

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    I can't say I'm well on my way, but I have started shooting Leg matches.

    The links in Derek's post should have all the rules & regs, including approved rifles.
     
  6. Admin

    Admin Staff Member Administrator Moderator NES Member

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    The AR15 is the rifle of choice for most service rifle shooters.
     
  7. Tiktock

    Tiktock

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    I am distinguised expert in rifle but did it years ago....no idea if i could still qualify if i had to re-shoot those matches! I did it when i was heavily into target shooting....still have the patches!
     
  8. Admin

    Admin Staff Member Administrator Moderator NES Member

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    After looking at the NRA requirement for HP Distinguished Expert it seems like the CMP/Military and the NRA version of Distinguished are very different... [thinking]
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2007
  9. Jose

    Jose Guest

    What competitive discipline are you talking about?
     
  10. Jose

    Jose Guest

    They are, but it's not the NRA's fault that some people think they are equivalent.
     
  11. Admin

    Admin Staff Member Administrator Moderator NES Member

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    88% for Distinguised Rifle expert in the NRA?

    That's a score of 440 across the National Match course... Kinda makes my 496 feel cheap. [thinking] They do get a nice patch though. [rolleyes]
     
  12. cigarlover

    cigarlover

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    I'm assuming because it isnt bolt action and you need to fire pretty fast in some of the events from what I can see. That rules out the remington 700 and Styre mannlicher 308. Sorry for all the questions, just trying to get a feel for the sport before I jump in.
     
  13. cigarlover

    cigarlover

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    I was just looking through the rifle competitions. I guess its high power? It looks like some say rifle and some are high power.
     
  14. cigarlover

    cigarlover

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    OMG, looking at the prices of ammo I guess I was spoiled in the military!! LOL.. Must have been shooting about 5000.00 a day back in 86..I know one time we we training at a german range, had it all to ourselves for 2 weeks and took a 1/4 million in 86 prices to the range with us. Didnt come back with much..
     
  15. Jose

    Jose Guest

    Actually, the AR15 is the most popular for the simple reasons that it is the most economical AND most accurate of the three SERVICE rifles currently approved for competition (the others being the M1, M14, and their civilian clones).

    NRA Highpower has two rifle divisions: match rifle and service rifle. Service Rifle is the three rifles I mentioned with unlimited INTERNAL modifications (except for the caliber itself) and very limited EXTERNAL modifications that are specifically enumerated in the rule book.

    Match Rifle is almost anything goes so long as it has metallic sights and can hold at least five rounds in the magazine.

    CMP Excellence In Competition Matches are a special form of Highpower open only to competitors with Service Rifles.

    Do not be misled to think that bolt action rifles are uncompetitive in Highpower because two of the stages are rapid fire. Quite the contrary, the time limits for sitting and prone rapid fire are more than adequate to clean (all 10s) the target with a bolt action target rifle. In fact ALL NRA national records for sitting and prone rapid fire are owned by shooters using bolt action rifles. In fact, Chief Warrant Officer 4, USMC (Ret.) Dennis De Mille OWNS the sitting rapid fire national record with an incredible 300-28X. He did it using a TUBB 2000 bolt action match rifle.

    Rapid fire is actually a misnomer. The stages should really be called sustained fire. Most new shooters hear "rapid fire" and try to blast their ten rounds and quickly as possible, ending with a dismal score, while those who have developed a pace that uses about 90% of the allotted time end up with scores in the 99% to 100% range regardless of the rifle used.

    The AR15 is popular not only because of reasons of cost and accuracy, but because most shooters prefer to shoot service rifle for a variety of reasons.

    I started in the sport with one and made it to Master, but my eyes have had increasing trouble focusing on the front sight post as close as it is to the eye. So I switched to bolt action match rifles and I am much happier. I haven't shot any Conventional Highpower this year since I am concetrating on Highpower Mid Range Prone but last year the few times I took my Model 70 out I easily matched my AR 15 scores in sitting rapid fire and shot better in prone rapid fire.
     
  16. Admin

    Admin Staff Member Administrator Moderator NES Member

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    Yes you were spoiled in the military. Shooting match ammo everyday, six days a week all summer. It's tough to get the trigger time as a civilian let alone pay for 200-500 match rounds a day as a civilian. [thinking]
     
  17. cigarlover

    cigarlover

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    Thank you Jose, Thats exactly what I was looking for.
    Derek, I will most definitely not be shooting any 5k days again in my lifetime!! I'm just getting started again after many years and as i get into this I will probably end up reloading if ammo stays as high as it is now.
     
  18. bpm990d

    bpm990d

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    Don't forget that there is the NRA Distinguished Smallbore Prone and Position awards (that are different than the qualification) to add to the confusion.

    I honestly think the word is overused in shooting and the NRA should go get their own word. There are forty something synonyms in the online thesaurus for distinguished. I kind of like glorious or renowned. [laugh]

    B

    EDIT: Oh yeah, I forgot the other NRA Distinguished. NRA Distinguished Revolver/Pistol Program for law enforcement.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2007
  19. Jose

    Jose Guest

    You're welcome.

    Actually, you should reload if for no other reason than you can make better ammo for highpower than you can buy. That including making some good loads for 600 yards that simply cannot buy at any price because no one makes them.

    All that is needed is some basic attention to detail. DO NOT waste your time with benchrest loading techniques such as weight sorting of cases and bullets, neck turning, neck sizing, tuning neck sizing with bushing dies, etcetera, etcetera. None of that makes any difference for our purposes.

    The only thing I do that could be consider semi-retentive is to weigh every charge for ammo meant to be used at 600 yards or farther.
     
  20. Admin

    Admin Staff Member Administrator Moderator NES Member

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    There will be a private one on one HP clinic being auctioned off at the GOAL banquet. [wink]
     
  21. Jose

    Jose Guest

    Yeah, I forgot about those.

    But the smallbore distinguished do have the distinction of being even harder to achieve than the CMP EIC Distinguished.

    To make SB DR, you have to earn four steps. Those steps are earned by finishing in the top 10% of ALL competitors at NRA SB regionals, sectionals, or nationals. Unlike CMP DR, you are competing with those already SB DR when fighting for that top 10%. You cannot earn more than two steps per calendar year. In addition, one of the four steps HAS to be earned at the Nationals, unlike CMP DR where the hard leg can be earned at any EIC where you earn 10 or 8 point award.

    Add to that the fact that SB is full of serious hard holders and that the top level scores in SB Prone are at the 99.5% level and above, and you can see that being a SB DR is for the hardest of the hard.
     
  22. bpm990d

    bpm990d

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    I heard through the grapevine that they are going to have games matches for the smallbore phase. There are going to be five days of games matches between Position and Prone so the numbers should thin right out. [wink]

    B
     
  23. Jose

    Jose Guest

    I know you're joking but the mere mention of CMP games is enough to raise my BP to hell.

    BTW, there is already a CMP SB game: CMP Rimfire Sporter. [angry]

    Thankfully that BS is after all the real SB is done.
     
  24. bpm990d

    bpm990d

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    Ya, but nobody thinks it should be the main entrée; unlike HP [shocked]

    B
     
  25. Edmannma

    Edmannma NES Member

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    NRA Marksmanship Qualification -- Light Rifle

    The last couple of years the Braintree Rifle and Pistol Club has been conducting a NRA Marksmanship Qualification for Light Rifle. The next course starts on May 20th.
     
  26. mr.warrenson

    mr.warrenson

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    NRA Qualifications

    There are a wide variety of NRA Qualification Programs - at Southborough Rod & Gun Club, we're running the Shotgun (Trap) program, and it's a great way to get more (and younger) people out to the range. If you go to the NRA website and look for qualification programs, you'll find a lot. Trap , skeet, blackpowder shotgun (!), several rifle disciplines, etc., etc.

    While DE may be an overused term, whatever we can do in this state to promote our sports should be used!
     
  27. jpoulette

    jpoulette

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    NRA DE

    I completed the NRA-DE in "Handgun .45ACP" and I can tell you that, while it was certainly a lot of fun, it is nothing compared to the NRA Bullseye DE in terms of skill. I am unfamiliar with many of the other types of qualification programs referred to here, but I think it'll be a LONG time before I get past sharpshooter in the Bullseye DE, where the entire Handgun qual went fairly quickly.

    What I do like about all the NRA programs is the "course of steps" - that is, the different levels you must qualify to before you move on to the next level. This give me personally a lot of confidence in my shooting abilities - being able to look back at previous targets.

    Now, I'm ready to move on to the d-revolver - assuming I can ever figure out the scoring system! [popcorn]
     
  28. Jose

    Jose Guest

    JP, the key difference is that NRA shooter qualification programs are non-competitive.

    OTOH, NRA shooter CLASSIFICATIONS are for their competitive programs.

    As you found out, qualifying as NRA Distinsuished Pistol Expert does not mean much once one steps into the world of NRA Conventional Pistol, where such a skill level equates to a Sharpshooter classification, at best.

    The same is true with smallbore and highpower rifle. Guys who qualify for the non-competitive rifle Distinguished Expert award have their ego soon deflated when they step in the world of NRA rifle competition if they are not told what to expect in terms of skill.
     
  29. MisterHappy

    MisterHappy NES Member

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    Ego Defaltion

    When one steps to the line, one's ego is always in danger of being deflated.

    A couple weekends back, a 10-year-old beat me in two rounds of trap.

    [crying]

    Of course, since he was my son, that made it a bit better!

    [smile]


    And, on his walk home, he learned a valuable life-lesson about out-shooting the guy with the car keys!

    [wink]


    ANY hook that can get a new person involved in shooting, regardless of age, should be welcomed!
     
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  30. mac1911

    mac1911 NES Member

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    NRA qualification score question

    Ok so I see you need 40% for pro marksmen 50% marksmen ect ect for the qualifications now my question is
    Do your scores from each stage standing,sitting,prone fast and slow need to be 40% or more or is it your total score for the 4 stages
    EX: I shoot the 50 shot course and score total of 200/500(40% of 500) to get the pro marksmen or do I need to score 40% of each stage ?

    Ex standing 10 shots 40 points
    sitting 10 shots 40 points
    prone rapid 10 shots 40 points
    prone slow 20 shots 80 points

    40% of each stage still gives me the 200 points to qualify but I can shoot 120 prone slow fire and 0 on the standing and still get the 40% for the 200/500. I could also score a 200 on the prone slow fire(not likely) and save my ammo for the next qualification.

    Im not sure if this is clear but im sure some one knows what Im talking about.
     

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