NRA method of loading, unloading, and firing for lefties?

[kel]

I am taking the NRA Instructor training course for Home Firearm Safety and Basic Pistol. One of the pre-requisites they have is knowledge of how to safely (the NRA way) load, unload, and fire a variety of pistol and rifles. They qualify this by saying that you also have to know how a lefty is supposed to do it. Now as I far as I know, a lefty would do pretty much the same thing a righty would do when it comes to the actual mechanisms used in said processes, but he might use a different hand or finger depending on the operation. I checked the two books for each course, and the details of what they should do aren't in there.

Does anyone know what a lefty is supposed to do differently?

 

[SiameseRat]

I scanned through my NRA stuff and I can't find any reference to doing anything differently. I just remember when I started shooting I was left eye dominant so I was taught to shoot lefty. The only difference was that on some guns I had to figure out how to use the slide release latch with my index finger or reach around the backstrap with my right thumb. But I can't tell you if that's NRA legit or not. What a weird question.

I'd say probably that it's just a mirror of what a righty would do, handing the gun with your non-dominant hand etc...

Anyone else catch something in their instructor manuals that I missed?

 

[dreppucci007]

Anyone else catch something in their instructor manuals that I missed?

I did a quick check too, Jen, and couldn't find anything.

 

[KMaurer]

The key is doing it safely. There's no one magic "NRA certified" method of holding the gun and managing the reload, as long as you've got the muzzle controlled aqnd in a safe direction, and your finger away from the trigger. Obviously the ways that work best for a right hand shooter (note the plural), aren't the same ones that are best for lefties.

Ken

 

[taz-2005]

Hey Kel,

I'm going to be in that class as well. See you there. I looked on the NRA website and could'nt find anything about lefties either.

 

[DR]

Hey Kel,

I'm going to be in that class as well. See you there. I looked on the NRA website and could'nt find anything about lefties either.

And I'll make three. We'll have our own little NES contingent. Just look for the fellow with the most hair and introduce yourself.

As for left-handed manipulation, the only thing I do differently for pistols is to use my index finger rather than thumb for the mag release or bring my left thumb around to work the safety. My better half shoots rifles lefty (she's right handed but left eye dominant) and she just reaches over the top to work the bolt. Looks goofy but works fine. I'm sure I'll learn some new methods at the class.

 

[taz-2005]

Great can't wait to meet you guys! I'm sure it will be fun.

 

[kel]

NES Trifecta of training extraordinaire! See you there.

 

[JGreen]

George's Suggestion

George Harris of the Sig Academy penned a great article on this subject a year or two ago. Unfortunately the link is not working. Perhaps someone has a copy of Velocity with this article.

[PDF] Left-Hand Training Methods for Semi-Automatic PistolsFile Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat
if you are left or right handed. The bottom line with a semi-automatic ... A National Rifle Association Class "C" shooting coach, George has over ...
www.sigarmsacademy.com/pdf/Velocity-Harris-LHtrain.pdf - Similar pages

 

[DR]

George Harris of the Sig Academy penned a great article on this subject a year or two ago. Unfortunately the link is not working. Perhaps someone has a copy of Velocity with this article.

Here a copy of the article. Save your own copy folks as that link won't be around for long.

 

[taz-2005]

Thanks Dave for posting that. Now if there is something for revolvers.......

 

[DR]

Thanks Dave for posting that. Now if there is something for revolvers.......

It sounds to me like you have an excuse to take Michael de Bethencourt's snubbie class. He covers two handed loading, strong hand only, weak hand only. If you want to know how to make a snubbie do something, he's the man to talk to.

One thing about the class: we almost never fully loaded our revolvers. It meant that the class was one long ball and dummy drill. Despite the fact that we put a lot of rounds through light guns, no one was flinching at the end of the day.

 

[SiameseRat]

That's a good article, but the problem is- whose advice do you follow?

If you go by the NRA, they say you should shoot to your dominant eye. If you're cross eye dominant then shoot with your weak hand. George's article says eye dominance isn't that important.

I'm not trying to start an argument and the article is helpful, but you either teach NRA or you don't.

 

[M1911]

If you go by the NRA, they say you should shoot to your dominant eye. If you're cross eye dominant then shoot with your weak hand. George's article says eye dominance isn't that important.

Think about the focus of the individual or organization that is giving this advice. For the NRA, it comes from bullseye competition. While George Harris has done a lot of bullseye competition, he now teachs combat shooting.

As an NRA certified instructor, I'll say that dominant eye is FAR more important for long guns than pistols. For combat-style shooting of pistols, it's just not that important. For pistols, I suggest that you shoot with your dominant hand, even if you are cross-dominant. For long guns, I suggest you shoot on the side of your dominant eye. If you are going to shoot bullseye competition, then maybe you want to consider shooting pistol on the side of your dominant eye.

The bottom line, try both sides and see which works better for you.

 

[Cross-X]

That's a good article, but the problem is- whose advice do you follow?

If you go by the NRA, they say you should shoot to your dominant eye. If you're cross eye dominant then shoot with your weak hand. George's article says eye dominance isn't that important.

I'm not trying to start an argument and the article is helpful, but you either teach NRA or you don't.

SR, what the NRA training manuals for NRA Basic Pistol say is that you should be sure to aim with your dominant eye. There is no suggestion that a right-handed person who is left-eye dominant should or must be trained to shoot left-handed.

Darius Arbabi

 

[Nickle]

Now here's a good scenario for you.

My son is left handed, right eye dominant.

He shoots rifle and shotgun right handed.

He shoots pistol LEFT handed, using his right eye.

It's just that simple.

 

[Cross-X]

Now here's a good scenario for you.

My son is left handed, right eye dominant.

He shoots rifle and shotgun right handed.

He shoots pistol LEFT handed, using his right eye.

It's just that simple.

Many outstanding pistoleros are cross-eye dominant. It has no effect on the results obtained. I know, I shoot that way.

 

[Nickle]

Well, Darius, he easily qualifies with the M9 Beretta, that's for sure.

He did have a HELL of a time in Boot Camp, though. They almost booted him for crappy left eyesight, until he proved he was right eye dominant (right eye sight was good).

If I hadn't been a Senior NCO at the time, they would NOT have believed him. I'm the one that showed him he was right eye dominant. He showed them how to tell dominance.

 

[SiameseRat]

SR, what the NRA training manuals for NRA Basic Pistol say is that you should be sure to aim with your dominant eye. There is no suggestion that a right-handed person who is left-eye dominant should or must be trained to shoot left-handed.

Darius Arbabi

My NRA Basic Pistol trainer's guide says:

It is recommended that the shooter use the hand which is on the same side of the body as the dominant eye.

I was more trying to point out that as a course evolves and a person gains experience that we frequently stray from the directions laid forth by the NRA.
I'm not in any way trying to say that the NRA is the end-all-be-all in firearms instruction, but it is what we're supposed to follow. Just trying to see what other people think.

 

[SiameseRat]

As an NRA certified instructor, I'll say that dominant eye is FAR more important for long guns than pistols.

The bottom line, try both sides and see which works better for you.

I agree. I remember when I was in camp as a child I was the only person who couldn't hit the target with a .22 rifle.
It never made sense until I learned I was cross dominant, and I didn't even notice that I was closing my right eye. I've taught plenty of students pistol shooting strong arm with cross dominance, and have also tried to train them weak arm. Frankly, both ways have difficulties.

 

[M1911]

I've taught plenty of students pistol shooting strong arm with cross dominance, and have also tried to train them weak arm. Frankly, both ways have difficulties.

What sort of stance are you teaching them? NRA bullseye style or combat style?

For combat style weak-hand shooting (I'm right-handed, right-eye dominant), I face the target square, left foot a bit forward of the right (boxer-style stance), right hand clenched at my chest. Then I rotate the gun to the right about 20-30 degrees. This puts the sights in front of my right eye, but keeps my left arm basically straight. If you keep the pistol vertical, but move it to the right in front of your right eye, then you bend the wrist and that makes it harder to control recoil.

For bullseye shooting, well, er, take them to an IDPA match instead

 

[SiameseRat]

What sort of stance are you teaching them? NRA bullseye style or combat style?

For combat style weak-hand shooting (I'm right-handed, right-eye dominant), I face the target square, left foot a bit forward of the right (boxer-style stance), right hand clenched at my chest. Then I rotate the gun to the right about 20-30 degrees. This puts the sights in front of my right eye, but keeps my left arm basically straight. If you keep the pistol vertical, but move it to the right in front of your right eye, then you bend the wrist and that makes it harder to control recoil.

For bullseye shooting, well, er, take them to an IDPA match instead

The program that the MRA runs begins with benchrest position, then we run through isosceles, weaver and gallery positions and wind up with most students choosing to stay in isosceles.
Depending on the comfort level of the person I'm coaching they may end up in a modified weaver.
With 10-11 new shooters on one line at the same time I'd be hesitant to get involved in rotating the gun. We just do the basics.
I wish we had an IDPA course.

 

[DR]

I wish we had an IDPA course.

I hear that there's an avid IDPA shooter looking to join MRA's training team...

 

[taz-2005]

In the NRA Guide to the Basics of Personal Protection Outside of the Home One of the appendices has a nice section on Left hand loading/unloading. It is too large to try to scan and post.

 

[KMaurer]

In the NRA Guide to the Basics of Personal Protection Outside of the Home One of the appendices has a nice section on Left hand loading/unloading. It is too large to try to scan and post.

I hadn't got that far in browsing the book, yet. It's not that large; I'll see what I can do about getting some excerpts scanned and posted.

Ken