NRA Instructor Rant

[paracarry]

OK here goes, I have only been an NRA BP instructor for 4 years, and have been shooting pistols for a little over 33 years , so this handgun thing is kind of new to me, compared to all the internet commando's. Lately I have been running into a lot of people who have taken the NRA Basic Pistol course, and did not even fire a gun, or some have said that after the lecture, they went down in the guys basement and fired a pellet pistol. I was told by one person he was charged $190.00 and went in the instructors basement and shot an air-soft gun, great way to show the student about recoil on that one. So what gives instructors? This just pisses me off, you are suppose to be promoting the shooting sports, and leaving the student with a positive and enjoyable experience. I try to keep my classes as interesting as possible, without boring them and shoot enough so they are comfortable with the firearms, and if their arms start to get tired from shooting, all the better. They all walk away with a smile and a positive experience, at least I have not had any complaints yet. (RANT OVER) Thanks for listening.

 

[atilla]

the class i did took all day and there was no firing of any firearms. no pellet guns or anything, either. i already had firearms experience and was only there because of MA's retarded laws, but i think that not actually shooting is a real disservice to the people who sign up and pay and have never shot a firearm before in their lives or have very limited firearm experience.

 

[Bizkitjmd1]

After the lecture I always take the students to a range, or my friends back yard. The shoot a semi and revolver and I usually let them shoot the AR for fun too.

 

[Zepp]

I guess I was lucky rook the class then headed downstairs for somd shooting, the instructor had some pistols as well as some club members who were more than willing to let us plink away.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

If the purpose is to teach the minimal course for a license, the NRA "Home Firearms Safety" course qualifies, and does not required any live fire. Passing off a course with airsoft as "Basic Pistol" (which requires live fire) is fraud.

One problem with the NRA instructor program is very minimal qualifications required. Compare what it takes to get an NRA instructor certificate (a one weekend class, plus convincing the instructor you are reasonably competent) with what it takes to become certified as an instructor in Scuba, Parachuting or General Aviation. No reputable org can take someone who is experienced in any of those things and turn them into a "certified instructor" in a single weekend.

 

[jar]

If you can find out who the instructor is, rat them out to NRA. Shady instructors reflect poorly on the rest of us.

Do note however that home firearms safety also satisfies the
MA requirements and does not include live fire.

Sent from my PG06100 using Tapatalk 2

 

[ShadeWPI]

When I took my course, we shot a .22LR revolver and pistol, .357 revolver loaded with .38 Specials (.357mag if you wanted to) and a 9mm pistol.

Everyone was required to fire 10 rounds through each handgun and each was scored. the minimum score to pass was fairly low, but there was a minimum score.

After the shooting portion was done, the instructor had each of us clean one of the firearms. Was a way of making sure the firearms were cleaned, but also showing safe handling during cleaning, understanding of the working parts of a firearm AND how to properly clean a firearm.

For an MA LTC, I thought you needed to submit a signed target??

 

[ShadeWPI]

what it takes to become certified as an instructor in Scuba, Parachuting or General Aviation. No reputable org can take someone who is experienced in any of those things and turn them into a "certified instructor" in a single weekend.

It's been 12 years since I looked into becoming a SCUBA instructor, but at the time you needed to already have Basic and Advanced Open Water certifications plus 2 specialty certifications just to qualify for the 12 week 4hr classroom + 1 hour dive time per week Instructor program and the qualification was long written test plus several open-water dive tests. I've heard about it being compressed into 1 week (5 days with 2 4-hour class room sessions + 2 1 hour pool sessions per day) then a 4-dive weekend, but no, I don't think you could compress it into 1 day.

 

[lupis42]

What Jar said. Basic Pistol and Home Firearms Safety are both good for an MA LTC, but only BP has live fire.
If someone's passing off an airsoft only as Basic Pistol, the NRA would like to know about it.

 

[FLHTC]

A lot of Instructors are having issues finding places to bring student to shoot. Most gun clubs do not allow Instructors to use the range even if they are members. A lot of clubs these days run the course and do not want the compaction or the liability of other instrctors.

 

[TomH]

If you can find out who the instructor is, rat them out to NRA. Shady instructors reflect poorly on the rest of us.

Do note however that home firearms safety also satisfies the
MA requirements and does not include live fire.

Sent from my PG06100 using Tapatalk 2

So report them for what exactly? A class shouldn't be a requirement by rights anyway, but you want to turn in people working with the system to increase gun ownership?

 

[FSTC]

OK here goes, I have only been an NRA BP instructor for 4 years, and have been shooting pistols for a little over 33 years , so this handgun thing is kind of new to me, compared to all the internet commando's..

 

[Another_David]

I've taken at least three newly minted LTC holders to the range for their first time firing a pistol after having paid good money for a Mass "required" class. I think the classes are a great idea for those that have ZERO experience but unless it has hands-on live-firing it's just to meet the legal requirement and not much value otherwise.

 

[ShadeWPI]

So report them for what exactly? A class shouldn't be a requirement by rights anyway, but you want to turn in people working with the system to increase gun ownership?

Report them for to the NRA (not to the State) as misrepresenting the NRA class and other instructors and defrauding customers by passing off a course using pellet or air-soft pistols as a certified "live fire" class rather than describing it as what it is.

 

[ShadeWPI]

FSTC - I love the photo. I really want to get a .50 BMG. I'd love a bolt action, removable magazine feed one.

 

[bill o]

...

One problem with the NRA instructor program is very minimal qualifications required. Compare what it takes to get an NRA instructor certificate (a one weekend class, plus convincing the instructor you are reasonably competent) with what it takes to become certified as an instructor in Scuba, Parachuting or General Aviation. No reputable org can take someone who is experienced in any of those things and turn them into a "certified instructor" in a single weekend.

This is true. I was stunned by the lack of basic pistol knowledge by a few of the students in my instructor class.

 

[WaldoOneFive]

FSTC - I love the photo. I really want to get a .50 BMG. I'd love a bolt action, removable magazine feed one.

I just see a red X ?

 

[Terminator03]

I was sadly disappointed in the fact that the class I had signed up for didn't include live fire. Yes, everyone in the class had to demonstrate safe handling techniques, loading, and unloading, de-cocking a revolver, etc., but a good number of the participants had never fired any firearms before, so when are they supposed to "learn" to fire? Fortunately, I had taken the class 20 years ago (never got my LTC then because of the stupid requirements at the time), but it did include live fire at least. I also took one of our boys to the class with me, and was really hoping to get some live fire training in because at the time he had never fired a gun before. So for me, my first time actually firing a pistol (in 20 years) was when I had my LTC, and had actually bought my own. I personally don't think this is the best situation for those that have never fired a hand gun before, though.

 

[ShadeWPI]

I just see a red X ?

Souce might be blocked? not sure. I see what looks like a cute little blond haired girl hugging a Model 81A on its stock, he head comes up to the end of the forearm where the bipod mounts. Looks like she's about 5 years old.

 

[mike01824]

I think it is a buyer beware issue. You really have to do your research before signing up for a class and know exactly what you get. Some classes include no fire, some incluse "simulated fire" and some include life fire. Knowing the differences and what you want is really upto each individual. In my mind there is no substitute for real live fire and thats what I recommended to everyone I talk to, but YMMV.

 

[ShadeWPI]

Mike,

The point is that some instructors are claiming to offer the NRA Basic Pistol class, which, by NRA definition, includes live fire. When these classes include simulated fire, they are misrepresenting their class as the NRA Basic Pistol class and the NRA should be made aware of that misrepsentation.

I have no problem with instructors offering courses without fire, with simulated fire, heck, if someone wants to offer a class that uses lazer tag guns or painball markers, that's their choice - but when the advertise it as an NRA basic pistol class, it needs to include the components of the NRA basic pistol class or have the alterations approved by the NRA.

Report the misrepresenation to the NRA and allow them to deal with it - it's their name being misrepresented and its their choice how to respond - such is the nature of a free market society.

 

[Terminator03]

Mike,

The point is that some instructors are claiming to offer the NRA Basic Pistol class, which, by NRA definition, includes live fire. When these classes include simulated fire, they are misrepresenting their class as the NRA Basic Pistol class and the NRA should be made aware of that misrepsentation.

I have no problem with instructors offering courses without fire, with simulated fire, heck, if someone wants to offer a class that uses lazer tag guns or painball markers, that's their choice - but when the advertise it as an NRA basic pistol class, it needs to include the components of the NRA basic pistol class or have the alterations approved by the NRA.

Report the misrepresenation to the NRA and allow them to deal with it - it's their name being misrepresented and its their choice how to respond - such is the nature of a free market society.

^this

 

[perry1386]

For an MA LTC, I thought you needed to submit a signed target??

This may be a non-statutory requirement for some towns/cities; Boston? But I surely didn't have to


See you soon & until then; keep it pointed down range

 

[drgrant]

For an MA LTC, I thought you needed to submit a signed target??

Not required under MGL. There might be some douche towns that require it (for example, Brookline) but those are non statutory requirements imposed by said douche town, not a requirement by law.

-Mike

 

[Terminator03]

Not required under MGL. There might be some douche towns that require it (for example, Brookline) but those are non statutory requirements imposed by said douche town, not a requirement by law.

-Mike

Mike, I think I know where he got that idea. Back when I first took the class in the early 90's, there was a requirement that you had to include the signed and dated target from when you took the class as one of the many requirements (at least here in Agawam). I still have that target somewhere since I never submitted it at that time due to the requirement of have 3 hand written letters from non-relatives describing why they felt you would be suitable to carry firearms. That was what kept me from applying at that time because I don't feel it is right to ask anyone to put themselves on the line that way. Glad they finally eliminated that requirement!

 

[willbdavis]

I only teach the NRA Basic Pistol Shooting course to new shooters. I want them to have the full course with hands-on live fire exercises.

Of course, becoming proficient takes time and practice. No course can do that. And safety is all about having the right attitude. We try to encourage that.

 

[M1911]

OK here goes, I have only been an NRA BP instructor for 4 years, and have been shooting pistols for a little over 33 years , so this handgun thing is kind of new to me, compared to all the internet commando's. Lately I have been running into a lot of people who have taken the NRA Basic Pistol course, and did not even fire a gun, or some have said that after the lecture, they went down in the guys basement and fired a pellet pistol.

If they were teaching NRA Home Firearm Safety, then that would suffice. But if they were actually claiming to teach NRA Basic Pistol and did not include live fire of real firearms, then they were not following the NRA's requirements.

Many people that I have spoken with who have taken an NRA class can't tell you whether it was an NRA Basic Pistol or Home Firearm Safety. So some of this may simply come down to confusion on student's part. But I have heard of NRA instructors breaking the rules and using simulators, and I agree that it is a reprehensible practice.

 

[M1911]

So report them for what exactly? A class shouldn't be a requirement by rights anyway, but you want to turn in people working with the system to increase gun ownership?

Report them to the NRA for not following the NRA's requirements for instructors. We all agree that a class should not be a requirement. But if an instructor is claiming to teach an NRA course, then he is required to follow the NRA's curriculum. That is what that the instructor agreed to when he became an NRA instructor.

 

[blindfire]

Eddie Coyle was my instructor. We did the class thing on Tues. and Thursday night and came back to the range at 9am on that Saturday. We shot the 15 rounds to .22LR and then EC broke out his arsenal. We shot a .22, .38, .357 and 9mm. He let anyone who wanted to shoot his S&W 500 with normal load and his super hot reload. DAYUM!!!!!!!

FUN TIMES! If you can take a class from an instructor like him, you are far better off.

 

[paracarry]

I appreciate all the positive comments, so I know I am not a lone on this. The people I did talk to signed up for and took the NRA BP course, specifically to get their LTC. I know and teach the HFS course and know the live fire is not needed. I just like to think that we as instructors are more concerned with promoting our sport, rather than putting a few extra bucks in our pockets. Thanks .