Noveske: Space Invader 9mm, and the Noveske 9 rifles and pistols

[JRT]

Either sbr it or put a 16" barreled upper on it

If you can’t build it as a pistol and these two options are your only choices in Massachusetts, then go SBR. A 16 inch barrel will look retarded.

 

[Varmint]

The real problem with these is that since SBRs are "Firearms" in MA, I think they would need to be on the pistol list to be sold via FFL.

Not sure I understand that, rifles are firearms, and aren't on the list?

 

[Mesatchornug]

Not sure I understand that, rifles are firearms, and aren't on the list?

In MA law, we define rifle, shotgun, and firearm. The roster pertains to firearms, but not the other two. So a gun that doesn't meet the definition of rifle or shotgun must be on the EOPSS list.

 

[atmay]

Not sure I understand that, rifles are firearms, and aren't on the list?

The definition of “firearm” varies wildly depending on where you look in MA law.

 

[amm5061]

In MA law, we define rifle, shotgun, and firearm. The roster pertains to firearms, but not the other two. So a gun that doesn't meet the definition of rifle or shotgun must be on the EOPSS list.

Basically, this. This is why you'll have trouble transferring a SBR via Form 4 from an FFL.

 

[Mesatchornug]

The definition of “firearm” varies wildly depending on where you look in MA law.

Your comment about the CMR was really instructive. On looking at it, it seems that the EOPSS list applies (but not limited to?) handguns as we think of them.

I feel like this is a case of "who wants to be the test case?" but I know that folks successfully build SBRs in the Commonwealth, so it obviously isn't impossible.

 

[atmay]

Your comment about the CMR was really instructive. On looking at it, it seems that the EOPSS list applies (but not limited to?) handguns as we think of them.

I feel like this is a case of "who wants to be the test case?" but I know that folks successfully build SBRs in the Commonwealth, so it obviously isn't impossible.

I took that out because my early-Saturday-morning brain forgot that the EOPSS list comes from 140 MGL 123. 940 CMR 16.00 is similar, but not the same.

An SBR transfer would come under the requirements of 140 MGL 123, but not 940 CMR 16.00, since it meets the definition of “firearm” for that section of MGL, but not the definition of “handgun” as laid out in that section of CMR.

Crystal clear, right?


ETA: the only sensical way to go about getting an SBR in MA is to build it yourself.

 

[amm5061]

ETA: the only sensical way to go about getting an SBR in MA is to build it yourself.

Yup, Form 1 is the way to go.

 

[Varmint]

In MA law, we define rifle, shotgun, and firearm. The roster pertains to firearms, but not the other two. So a gun that doesn't meet the definition of rifle or shotgun must be on the EOPSS list.

Ah, so if you want to get an SBR, you'd have to buy the carbine version if there is one and convert it? (or find a clever dealer, of course)

I guess that doesn't apply to very many guns - Sig MCX, MPX, Scorpion etc.

 

[dhuze]

Your comment about the CMR was really instructive. On looking at it, it seems that the EOPSS list applies (but not limited to?) handguns as we think of them.

I feel like this is a case of "who wants to be the test case?" but I know that folks successfully build SBRs in the Commonwealth, so it obviously isn't impossible.

Welcome to the vague laws of Massachusetts. Let’s pass a law with no definition, that way we can do what we want. Oh and while we are at it, let’s pass laws for the untouchables with no defined penalties, that way they can’t be prosecuted.

 

[Varmint]

Welcome to the vague laws of Massachusetts. Let’s pass a law with no definition, that way we can do what we want. Oh and while we are at it, let’s pass laws for the untouchables with no defined penalties, that way they can’t be prosecuted.

The poorly written laws work in our favor imo - I think they intended you could never buy anything not on both the EOPS and AG's list.

 

[Lxpony]

Ah, so if you want to get an SBR, you'd have to buy the carbine version if there is one and convert it? (or find a clever dealer, of course)

I guess that doesn't apply to very many guns - Sig MCX, MPX, Scorpion etc.

Bren, scar, virtus, acr.......all can be bought as carbines and sbr'd in this state

 

[not new guy]

Availability of legal standard capacity magazines is a consideration, otherwise there are tons of great carbine/sbr options for MA residents.

 

[dgrafton]

That’s the part I don’t understand. 300BLK will outperform 9mm in every way possible.

PCCs just don’t make sense anymore, unless you’re skinflinting and buying a HiPoint.

Or if you want to shoot steel matches or PCC in IDPA/USPSA

 

[not new guy]

Doesn’t 300blk cost (at least) twice as much as 9mm/rd though? And there’s the issue of prebans if you’re in MA.

 

[frenchman]

I think atmay has it right. His arguments hold water. The PCC has the same weight and feel to it than the rifle caliber. All you are sacrificing is performance. Doesn't make sense, except for the cost of ammo. In a weapon, I always look for the best weight/capacity/performance ratio. That's why I personally prefer 9mm in my handguns and basically any rifle caliber for my long guns (within reason).

 

[not new guy]

PCCs are fun, and probably have some specific applications where they make sense, but yeah, if you can get a rifle caliber in the same general configuration definitely take that one to the fight.

Is there a women and children argument for PCCs. As users of them, not targets.

 

[JRT]

Doesn’t 300blk cost (at least) twice as much as 9mm/rd though? And there’s the issue of prebans if you’re in MA.

300BLK = $1.00
9mm = $0.17

Worsererer

 

[frenchman]

300BLK = $1.00
9mm = $0.17

Worsererer

300 BLK=BANG!=1 dollar=dead.
9mm=BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG=85 cents= MAYBE dead
The worserest.

 

[Varmint]

I think atmay has it right. His arguments hold water. The PCC has the same weight and feel to it than the rifle caliber. All you are sacrificing is performance. Doesn't make sense, except for the cost of ammo. In a weapon, I always look for the best weight/capacity/performance ratio. That's why I personally prefer 9mm in my handguns and basically any rifle caliber for my long guns (within reason).

In Mass with no suppressors, I would not want to fire off a 5.56 or 300BLK with some loud muzzle brake in my own home. I have to double up ear pro when I shoot my BCM with the brake on it, and that's outdoors. Whole family will have permanent hearing damage, and who knows how effective you'll be once the first round blows your hearing. That's the appeal of a 9mm carbine/SBR to me.

Suppressor ban is my #1 reason to hate Mass.

 

[dhuze]

300BLK = $1.00
9mm = $0.17

Worsererer

I pay $0.76 for 300BLK. I only paid that because I didn’t have dies and bullets yet, now I do. Still going to cost around $0.40 per round, but I’m also using Sierra Match King so that could come down with cheaper bullets.

 

[atmay]

Doesn’t 300blk cost (at least) twice as much as 9mm/rd though? And there’s the issue of prebans if you’re in MA.

300BLK uses the same magazines as 5.56. Prebans are plentiful. As are non-date-marked mags from who knows when!

 

[atmay]

In Mass with no suppressors, I would not want to fire off a 5.56 or 300BLK with some loud muzzle brake in my own home. I have to double up ear pro when I shoot my BCM with the brake on it, and that's outdoors. Whole family will have permanent hearing damage, and who knows how effective you'll be once the first round blows your hearing. That's the appeal of a 9mm carbine/SBR to me.

Suppressor ban is my #1 reason to hate Mass.

9MM out of any length barrel indoors will still destroy your hearing.

Yes, it’s quieter than 300BLK or 5.56, but not quiet enough that it won’t have the same basic effects.

 

[JRT]

Video from Shot Show featuring the Noveske SMG/PCC carbine in the Dead Air booth. That paddle release am sexy.


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qNBn1VPhbPI

 

[Reptile]

I I want to register as a SBR, what kind of stock do I need?

 

[citoriguy]

Suppressor ban is my #1 reason to hate Mass.

+ a bajillion

 

[Reptile]

Either sbr it or put a 16" barreled upper on it

Ok, so any stock will do.

I'm just wondering what to do so I DON'T make it a pistol.

 

[JRT]

For everybody who was interested the Noveske9 is launched. Pistol, SBR and a 16 inch.

Noveske

 

[ReluctantDecoy]

9MM out of any length barrel indoors will still destroy your hearing.

Yes, it’s quieter than 300BLK or 5.56, but not quiet enough that it won’t have the same basic effects.

9mm indoors without ear protection would definitely make your ears ring for the rest of the day, but I'm not sure it would permanently destroy your hearing unless we're talking multiple mags worth without hearing protection. It is roughly 163 decibels out of a G17. AR-15 with a 16" barrel is closer to 165 decibels. The 3 decibel increase is 100% more sound energy, which hits the ear at about a 23-25% increase in perceived loudness at direct wave reverberation from gun to ear. More importantly though, the doubling of sound energy means it also hits your ear far harder on reflected sound from hard surfaces (walls/ceiling/floor). So an AR-15 is significantly louder than any 9mm handgun and poses far more unprotected ear risk discharging indoors.

 

[Dennis in MA]

Interesting 300/9 argument. Something is definitely missing though.

Assuming that a 9mm street-legal MA platform is $3,000. Assume also you can build a pistol/brace lower setup for $400. The upper might cost another $300. Tops. I'm setting a pretty high bar here to favor the albeit-very-cool pistol SBR as much as possible.

As far as PRACTICE ammo - 17c versus 70c. Not $1. 70c. Because self-defense ammo for the PCC isn't 17c. That's what will go through these guns most often.

That's 53c/rd savings.

($3,000-$700)/.53 = # of rounds until break-even. By my reccah'noidah, that's 4,400 rounds.

No dog in the fight, but important to look at the break even. Let's call it 4,000 rounds. How many of us are gonna put 4,000 rounds through a $3,000 PCC or a $700 BLK pistol setup?

Decide accordingly.


As for Massholios - the choice is made for you. You can get a fixed-mag pistol lower, unfinished and make your own for about $700. Plus you can add all sorts of pistol uppers in different calibers.