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North Providence CCW Process and Overview of my recent experience

Discussion in 'Rhode Island Laws' started by sparkfist, Jun 13, 2017.

  1. sparkfist

    sparkfist

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    I submitted my application at the end of January and recently picked it up so it took about 19 weeks. I met with the Chief and Deputy Chief and wanted to share my interview and overall experience of the process for others who may have reservations about applying.

    First you must submit a request with the Chiefs secretary to have a CCW packet created. The turn around time was about a day. The secretary is very nice and is quick to respond to emails and provide updates along the way. The packet includes application in addition to a list of relevant RI state laws and a check list of items needed. They use a modified AG form which requires the typical personal information, NRA qualification on an Army L target, 3 references, FBI fingerprint cards and a written letter with explanation of reason for permit. Everything needs to be signed and stamped by a notary which was probably the hardest part.

    Along with my application I provided a some additional information which I would suggest. Prior to applying I completed a 4 day NRA handgun safety course and a 1 day Nevada CCW qualification class. I included both the Nevada and FL CCW permit that I received earlier in the year in addition to the certificate from completing the class. Part of my letter also explained my plans for continued training in addition for my plans for gun safety courses for the rest of my family, which I did do after my application was submitted and prior to my interview. I also included pictures of my gun safes which show my intention of safely storing firearms.

    To drop the packet off you MUST first make an appointment with the Chiefs secretary in which you will need to individually review each required item to make sure that it is filled out completely, correctly and that nothing is missing. I was told I was one of the few who actually completed it correctly the first time and appeared to be the most prepared with the information included in my application.

    Following dropping off the packet the detective division will run a background check with includes physically vising your references if they are close or in town. If they are out of town or state it involved a quick phone call confirming the information listed on the reference letter.

    Next step was a home visit to indeed prove I was who I am and that I indeed live at the address listed on the application. Following this I had to sign a medical release form to collect my medical and I believe more specifically mental records for all the area hospitals in the states for what I assume to make sure I didn't have any drug, alcohol or mental related issues. This step took the longest time, which was probably about 6-10 weeks for all the hospitals to respond to the request. Legally I was told I do not need to do this but I have no records of concern and didn't want to hinder this process in any way.

    After the detective division completed the investigation my application was finally passed off to the Chief for review and to setup an interview. I made an appointment and met with both the Chief and Deputy Chief. They were very welcoming and expressed appreciation for my attention to detail in my application. Before providing the permit they wanted to meet with me to understand who I was, what I did for a living and what my ultimate intentions where for applying for a permit. They in no way attempted to trip me up or convince me that I didn't need a permit. If anything they were very open and encouraged civilians such as myself to carry firearms to protect themselves and others. They also referenced a recent incident at a local mall where a CCW holder neutralized a threat. They just wanted to make sure that anyone that was permitted to do so was a upstanding citizens and was not a danger to themselves and others.

    The main point they wanted to stress was the safety and responsibility that comes with carry a firearm and to reaffirm that I safely store and handle firearms. Accidentally losing a firearm, reporting it stolen and finding it a week later between my car seat and middle console would not be considered safe handling. That was was the example of what happened to someone who they denied earlier in the year simply because after reporting it stolen they never reported it found 12 months later until it came up in the CCW investigation by the detectives divisions.

    The 30 minute interview was quick and easy. It was very much not what I expected which was an anti-gun rank explaining why I should withdraw my application. In the end I was glad to meet with the Chief and learned he was a supporter of CCW permits. It lead to a very interesting conversation and I believe the Chief also took away some valuable information sharing my training experience and personal mindset around firearms.

    I am a firm believer in the 2nd amendment but I am also a realist in the sense that just because you have the right to do so doesn't mean have the mental capacity and required skills to safely carry a firearm. The point I made in my interview was that I personally didn't want to even apply for a CCW permit until I received adequate and basic training in operating and handling a firearm. Though the 9 full days of training I received this year is overkill for the purpose of a requirement, I believe it would be a good idea for RI to require at a minimum a 4 hour NRA safety course. I would also very much support a state sponsored safety course open to any resident paid for with my tax dollars. It is a fine line with any state regulations but for someone who feels they need a CCW permit it is very much a doable process and a far cry to what it was years ago when they flat out refused to even provide an application.

    Overall I think the process was certainly more elaborate than it probably needs to be, but it certainly separates the individuals who want to put the time and effort into it. A FL CCW required a 4 hour class and I mailed away and received the permit in 7 days. It shockingly doesn't even require qualification which may be a bit too lax where the RI process is the polar opposite.

    The only feedback I would provide if someone asked (and they didn't) was to remove the portion related to the notarizing EVERYTHING. Notary is general so unnecessarily difficult and pointless in my opinion that it seems like it is simply designed as a speed bump. Another example of a unnecessary and archaic bureaucratic process. I also wish the process was quicker but having previously worked at a municipality I can understand things don't move quick. Thankfully the DMV doesn't process these as it would waiting in like for 14 weeks for someone to tell me I am missing a cover sheet and to come back next year.

    If you have any questions to the process, what I included in the application or help with reference numbers feel free to ask. Though I was personally well prepared and put a decent amount of time in effort into it by searching online resources and asking people, I can also understand why someone would pay someone like Daria Bruno for assistance. It is a small price to pay for someone who is unfamiliar with the process which would likely prevent any unnecessary delays.
     

  2. one-eyed Jack

    one-eyed Jack Manufacturer Dealer NES Member

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    90% of those requirements are bullshit. Jack.
     
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  3. n1bsbri

    n1bsbri NES Member

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    I second one-eyed Jack's opinion.

    Suppose you did have some mental health records, who would have reviewed them and made a decision as to whether you were dangerous? The Police Chief or Detective? Where did they get their medical training?

    People who have squeaky clean records are all too quick to dismiss the needs and concerns of others who might not be in their position.
     
  4. ProGun

    ProGun NES Member

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    BS is putting it lightly. Sounds similar to what they do in foreign countries.[thinking]
     
  5. allen-1

    allen-1 NES Member

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    I'm sorry Jack, but I disagree with you.
    At least 95% of those requirements are bullshit.

    Medical records? Pictures of gunsafes? A home visit? Fck ALL of that noise.

    I have permits from GA, CT, FL, UT and NH. None of them required this amount of crap. All of them ran background checks on me to find out if I was a felon, all of them required me to prove that I was who I said I was, and that I resided where I said I did.

    What's bad is that you think this is a reasonable process. It's not reasonable. It's obscene.



    As for the OP - you did your due diligence, you jumped through their hoops and you got your CCW.
     
  6. drgrant

    drgrant Moderator NES Member

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    Lol its funny you say there was no "anti gun stuff" but that's exactly what they threw into your lap- a citizen should never be held responsible for what may have potentially been the actions of criminals- and on top of this they are punishing the guy for something that wasn't even harmful in reality, sounds like a lot of hurr durring, but likely typical for someplace like a BDC in RI.

    A home visit? Jesus christ. They don't even do that in mass. Not even in the big dump cities here. Dayum.

    ETA: They might not have "said" that they wanted you to withdraw your application, but the smell here is a PD that obviously wanted to make the
    process as obnoxious as possible but still potentially be defensible in some kind of lawsuit. They want people to know that it is obnoxious to deter
    application.

    The off chances that someone without the skills or capacity deciding to carry a firearm, might decide to do so- on the whole is a far less disturbing concept to me than the government being allowed to pick and choose who they think meets that criteria- particularly involving something that doesn't involve due process.

    -Mike
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2017
  7. n1bsbri

    n1bsbri NES Member

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    Someone should do that kind of investigation on North Providence Police.

    Here's a beautiful story of harassment. Take the time to read the investigative report they had done (which of course cleared them of wrongdoing). The only thing the NP Chief is missing is a clown suit.

    Investigation of North Providence PD documents ‘offensive’ behavior, but no harassment

    Here's another recent story about the same clown in NP:

    Altercation between Cranston officer, N. Providence chief under investigation

    And this guy has the balls to think he can pass judgement on you.
     
  8. Rob Boudrie

    Rob Boudrie NES Member

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    This sort of stuff will prevent gun owners with depression from getting help.
     
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  9. RImike

    RImike

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    Not to mention there is no HIPAA protection once you sign it over.

    The RI supreme court has ruled that all that is needed to obtain a permit is that you need to satisfy 4 criteria. Residency, proper reason, suitability and ability to achieve a sufficient score on an Army L target. All that extra BS is under the guise of "suitability" because it is codified no where in statuary RI law. There has been and is attempts at overhauling the permitting process and I suggest everyone, even those in MA to get involved as it affects you in obtaining a RI non resident permit.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2017
  10. MachineHead

    MachineHead NES Member

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    OP's story reminded me of this gem with the Brookline, MA PD.

    http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/308984-Brookline-LTC-Interview-Report

    Constitutional carry should be the only way to go, but if not, the one page NH application should be the standard to apply for a carry license. (Yes, I know NH is now constitutional carry)

    NH: https://www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/nhsp/ssb/permitslicensing/documents/dssp85.pdf

    What the OP is describing sounds like what they do in Australia. (Warning: it's nothing short of them performing a prostate exam with a zoobow)

    http://amp.timeinc.net/time/4172274...a-country-with-strict-gun-control/?source=dam
     
  11. sparkfist

    sparkfist

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    I don't agree with nor condone the entirety of the process. I just wanted to share and document what the process is regardless of the opinion good or bad. The home visit wasn't as elaborate as it may sound. It lasted 30 seconds. They knocked on my door and said ok thank you just wanted to confirm you indeed live at this address. They did not nor asked to go any further than my porch. This was done under the context of the requirement to prove residency in the town which to me was justifiable. It was crazier when 2 detectives showed up at my neighbors house to follow up on the reference letter. He said it scared the shit out of him as he thought something was wrong.

    Of all of the requirements I disagree most with the medical requirements and I believe I could have refused to sign the waiver.

    As I stated the only requirement I would lobby for is some sort of training such as a NRA safety course and a background check. Arguably the blue card could be considered the safety requirement but that's kind of a joke exam.

    As far as "anti-gun stuff" I certainly agree the process in itself is not pro-gun in the least bit. The tone and context of the conversation was certainly pro-gun which I felt was worst mentioning as I found it a bit shocking and refreshing after going through the entire process. Asking if I plan to safely store and secure my guns in a safe seems like a reasonable question. Comparing today to 5 years ago when a mental exam was required despite not being offered, there has certainly been much positive progress (even if its only because of a supreme court case).

    Regardless of the unnecessary steps that are arguably unconstitutional, everyone who is being overly negative should consider is that this is progress even if its just baby steps. I also hope this doesn't reflect poorly on myself as these responses seem to make me out to be a sympathizer which is not my goal. I am just glad Police Chiefs s in RI are ACTUALLY issuing permits.

    Personally I am more concerned about the current bills in the house that are far more egregious then the current process.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2017
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  12. n1bsbri

    n1bsbri NES Member

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    Thanks for the report, OP. I'm glad you got your permit, and my comments are no reflection on what you did. I still think the NP Chief is pretty ballsy though.
     
  13. PaulR

    PaulR NES Member

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    Wow!!!!!

    Hadley, MA CCW Process:
    Step 1: Submit application to Sergeant, get pics and fingerprints taken.
    Step 2: Receive LTC in mail 3 weeks later.
     
  14. scubadive.ri

    scubadive.ri

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    This, did they ask you for an Anal probe too? WTF. I have permits in NH, MA, FL, RI AG & and City permit in RI. I was going to let my AG permit go, but I just renewed it because the chief in my town decided to put a psych test in the application as of February. He can go **** himself if he thinks I'm going to go through that nonsense. If I ever hit the lottery I'm going to set up a fund for people to sue all the local Chiefs that play these games when they're trying to apply for a CCW. Oh yeah if I hit the lottery I'm moving to New Hampshire Rhode Island's going down the toilet.

    Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
     
  15. todd c

    todd c

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    did you get a bottle of K-Y with that application?
     
  16. Garys

    Garys NES Member

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    I'd put this process at 90% harassment, 9% BS, and 1% actually legitimate. It takes 5 minutes to run a records check. If that. Everything after that is BS.
     
  17. sparkfist

    sparkfist

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  18. newportri

    newportri

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    I am glad you got your permit and that someone finally had the guts to go through with it in NP since I know they have been very opposed to CCW permits in the past. I second what many have said that most of the requirements are nonsense, but it's a step in the right direction that they at least issue..
    I have a big problem with medical release forms since medical fraud is a multi billion dollar business and now you medical history is basically public records after you signed the release form.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Don't forget about the Chief who was sentenced to 6 months for stealing $600 from a stripper...
    http://wpri.com/2015/06/23/former-north-providence-police-chief-gets-6-months-in-prison/
    How about over 100 items missing from an evidence locker, including a handgun...
    http://www.valleybreeze.com/2017-05...hey-re-frustrated-lengthy-evidence-room-audit
     
  19. n1bsbri

    n1bsbri NES Member

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    Thanks for that. Yes, I just included the most recent stories regarding the chief who is currently in the seat. His actions can only be described as juvenile. Although when I was a juvenile, I didn't do any of those things.
     
  20. ScottS

    ScottS NES Member

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    Sentences that start with the clause, "I am a firm believer in the 2nd amendment but... " always end in an anti-gun statement. This sentence is no different. If that's how you really feel, you are, IMO, part of the problem.
     
  21. n1bsbri

    n1bsbri NES Member

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    "Everything before "but" is BS" -- Jim Quinn
     
  22. Goliathan

    Goliathan NES Member

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    Yikes. People go through less bull$hit than that to adopt a kid.
     
  23. ront02769

    ront02769 NES Member

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    To the OP, you haven subjected to a TOTAL BS process. Even in MA, my initial LTC process consisted of filling out a form and spending a half hour in the station while the secretary took my pix, my fingerprints and typed the info from the form into the computer. Done and done. No home visit, no gun safe examination, no why do you want it questions (although I had put some bs down on the form, the PD just said "you meant to write all lawful purposes, correct?"). And I GUESS you're grateful because you got it.....but a load of crap process.
     
  24. gamma19

    gamma19

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    See how ridiculous that sounds?
     

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