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Non-SBR/NFA shotgun/subverts ATF regs
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ChevyGuy91
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Interesting but I'm sure it's illegal in MA!
AllaSnackbah
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GHAY
If it was legal in MA, 5 rounds in a box mag is way better than the 2 rounds that similar sized SBS get.
Another strike against it is I'm pretty sure that the ATF views concealing these the same way they do shouldering the "arm thingy" - if you conceal it, you have made an AOW.
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I doubt it. Other non-NFA shotgun firearms have been around for a while, and the ATF hasn't said much. Letter of the law, they are fine. Now, if somebody was trying to import them, I wouldn't be surprised if the ATF didn't allow them and said there was no sporting purpose.
Kind of ugly compared to the Shockwave Mossberg 500 PGO builds discussed previously.
Under Federal law, sure, but state law doesn't match the Federal definition.
New Hampshire and Massachusetts call out "shotgun" specifically. For example, MA's Chapter 131, section 63 reads “No person... shall have in his possession or under his control in or on any vehicle or aircraft a loaded shotgun or rifle." (See also similar language in NH RSA 207:7).
New Hampshire's RSA 159:1 also specifically says "Pistol or revolver, as used herein, means any firearm with barrel less than 16 inches in length", but I wouldn't want to rely on a definition in RSA 159 as a defense for a violation of RSA 207.
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Under federal law it is a "FIREARM" not a handgun or long gun. So in many states you are allowed to keep a handgun loaded in your vehicle and other you can also keep a long gun this meets neither of those definitions. In Maine our permit says HANDGUN and our Constitutional carry law also specifies HANDGUN.
Note a "FIREARM" under federal law is under the same rules as a handgun. IE you can not buy one of these on a 4473 unless you are 21.
Kind of ugly compared to the Shockwave Mossberg 500 PGO builds discussed previously.
Under Federal law, sure, but state law doesn't match the Federal definition.
New Hampshire and Massachusetts call out "shotgun" specifically. For example, MA's Chapter 131, section 63 reads “No person... shall have in his possession or under his control in or on any vehicle or aircraft a loaded shotgun or rifle." (See also similar language in NH RSA 207:7).
New Hampshire's RSA 159:1 also specifically says "Pistol or revolver, as used herein, means any firearm with barrel less than 16 inches in length", but I wouldn't want to rely on a definition in RSA 159 as a defense for a violation of RSA 207.
Yes but it's not a shotgun.
(5) The term “shotgun” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of an explosive to fire through a smooth bore either a number of ball shot or a single projectile for each single pull of the trigger.
Definitions under state law can have little or no resemblance to Federal law
State law can be completely different.
That is the Federal definition.
State law can be completely different.
State law can be stricter but not more lax. Also as the 4473 and FFL are federal this is what they operate under in addition to any state laws piled on.
For the purposes of the earlier question "Could you keep it be loaded in your car for example?", state law can define pistol, rifle, and shotgun completely differently from Federal law; it's your responsibility to comply with both.
New Hampshire RSA 159:1 says "Definition. – Pistol or revolver, as used herein, means any firearm with barrel less than 16 inches in length. " So for compliance with RSA 159, the Shockwave Raptor or Black Aces is a pistol. That said, New Hampshire prohibits vehicle carry of "a loaded rifle or loaded shotgun" in RSA 207:7, and RSA 207 does not define these terms.
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This is the second thread I've found in the last couple weeks, since I happened to see the vid that's in the OP, regarding this black aces tactical "firearm"
I think I've followed every link posted and have not seen a cite that explains why this thing is not legal in MA (their website actually says something like "not available in CA, NY, MA)
Did I miss a reference to the relevant laws?
I f'ing want one regardless!!
AA
I think I've followed every link posted and have not seen a cite that explains why this thing is not legal in MA (their website actually says something like "not available in CA, NY, MA)
Did I miss a reference to the relevant laws?
I f'ing want one regardless!!
AA
This thread explains why it doesn't work in MA. Basically, MA bans shotguns modified to have short barrels. If it comes from the factory short barreled, it's fine. If it is cut down later,it is not. Black aces are cut down, so they are a no goAaron[MA];5000822 said:
I have a raptor grip arriving on Monday, [thread=308218]anybody have an old Mossberg 500 PGO they're willing to let go cheap[/thread]? You can keep the barrel and feed tube.
That was my thought as well, I read they were going to make their own receivers for the mag-fed designs. This differs from Sirearms, which uses the Shockwave Raptor Grip and Lug to convert a cut-down 500.
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