Non-Resident "traveling" with Shotgun

If he didn't legally own the gun . . . he MUST use an FFL . . . his Father (assuming he was the owner) can legally ship it from UPS/FedEx depot to the Son's CA FFL and the Son can do the transfer paperwork back in CA.
Long guns are mailable too.
 
And owning and possessing are different. Can you not legally possess a gun in MA that you do not own? So if he doesn't legally own the gun because transfer paperwork was never filled out, then the traveling exemption doesn't apply and he cannot possess it even for the brief time that he is traveling from my car to the check-in desk?
Even if he could, he'd be committing a federal felony of a private sale across state lines.

Give it up. Your plan won't work legally, and you don't want to be involved in a federal felony. The shipping and the FFL transfer fee cost far less than 1 hour of an attorney's time.
 
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Almost certainly the FFL is the way to go here but I am just interested, out of curiousity, in fleshing this thing out. I emailed the thread to my friend whose issue this is so perhaps he will weigh in with the relevant info.
 
Jose, but section 129C(h) exempts people traveling from the requirement of a license for possessing.

I'm pretty sure the requirement applies to people that traveled into or through the state WITH the guns already in possession.

This is mess is what you get when your laws exist.
 
There's nothing to flesh out here. If he's not the owner there's only 1 legal way for that shotgun to go from MA to CA.

Ship from MA FFL, To CA FFL
 
There's nothing to flesh out here. If he's not the owner there's only 1 legal way for that shotgun to go from MA to CA.

Ship from MA FFL, To CA FFL

WRONG!!

Please review the laws again. The LEGAL OWNER (Father) can ship it direct to any FFL in CA who will accept it (some won't). Fed Law allows this, no requirement (by law) for 2 FFLs (and fees).
 
Mike, please be extra careful when giving out legal advise as "GOAL" that it is correct.

It's bad enough that dealers, law enforcement and many instructors give out wrong legal advice. But I always want citizens to be able to trust that any legal info given out by GOAL is correct.
 
And, assuming father is the legal owner, does there have to be some transfer of title in the gun done in MA before sending (which I assume is impossibe b/c son does not have an FID/LTC) or does it just have to comply with CA firearm title transfer requirements? I assume father woudl still have to fill out a MA form stating that he no longer owned the gun.
 
If Father ships to CA FFL, all transfer paperwork is done in CA. There is NO mechanism at all to notify MA that you no longer possess a gun. The useless MA database will always show him as the owner.
 
Len, Really?

Whether he ships it to an FFL or his dad does, does it really matter?

Either way it has to go to a CA FFL, and that was the point I was trying to make, that he could not personally carry a firearm that does not belong to him across state lines.

There is no error in that statement.
 
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Len, Really?

Whether he ships it to an FFL or his dad does, does it really matter?

Either way it has to go to a CA FFL, and that was the point I was trying to make, that he could not personally carry a firearm that does not belong to him across state lines.

There is no error in that statement.

Mike again sorry but more bad info. [thinking]

Per Fed Law, ONLY the OWNER (or dealer/gunsmith both of which are FFLs) can ship a gun, period. So if the Son doesn't own it, NO he can't legally ship it to the FFL in CA.

Please re-read what you posted and what I took issue with. GOAL needs to present only correct info so that we can all trust what GOAL tells us.
 
Let's simplify things. If one assumes that he owns the gun, then no FFLs need to be involved anywhere. (Note that if the gun were originally transferred to him in MA prior to 1998, the state would have no record of the transfer.) However, since he's not licensed in MA, it's not clear that FOPA would apply to his checking the gun at Logan. To be completely safe, he should have a licensed friend take possession of the gun and accompany him no a little trip to the north, where he could legally possess the gun without the need for a license or permit (e.g., NH), then ship it to himself in CA.

If he does not already own the gun, then his father would have to ship it to an FFL in California in order to legally transfer ownership to him.

Ken
 
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Ken, just to clarify, your second paragraph assumes that he does NOT own the gun, right? I think that word was accidentaly ommitted.

If my friend does own the gun, then it would also be OK for his father to ship it directly to him as opposed to him shipping it to himself, right?
 
If my friend does own the gun, then it would also be OK for his father to ship it directly to him as opposed to him shipping it to himself, right?

Did you bother to read what I posted in #44 or am I just talking to myself here?

Do what you/he wants. If he (or Father) gets prosecuted and goes to jail, oh well.

Be aware that the Director of CHSB and the AG's Office read what's posted here. More than a few in LE have given a heads up to the Feds for prosecuting people.

I'm done here! [thinking]
 
Don't get PO'd -- I thought you were happy to indulge variations on the question. And sorry for not more clearly remembering what was in #44 (only owner can ship). I thought I was asking a slightly different question (can a legal possessor ship) but the answer seems clearly to be NO.

No one's going to jail and no one has any intention of breaking the law -- I just want to understand what it is.
 
Alright -- thanks to all for the info. The question that, I think, has been touched on but I don't think fully addressed is this: assuming friend is the bona fide owner of the gun but does not have an FID, can he be covered by FOPA while "traveling" from MA to CA? FOPA requires that he be allowed to possess the gun on both ends of his trip. At the destination (CA) he is covered and at the departure point (MA) the issue is whether the ch 140 section 129C(h) exemption for "traveling" covers him. If he is allowed to possess the gun in MA while traveling (assuming he meets that requirement) and is thereby exempted from the MA possession (licensing) requirements, then isn't he good on the MA end of the trip for FOPA purposes?

My apologies if this was answered somewhere else in the thread but I don't think it conclusively has been.

Thanks again to all.
 
Alright -- thanks to all for the info. The question that, I think, has been touched on but I don't think fully addressed is this: assuming friend is the bona fide owner of the gun but does not have an FID, can he be covered by FOPA while "traveling" from MA to CA? FOPA requires that he be allowed to possess the gun on both ends of his trip. At the destination (CA) he is covered and at the departure point (MA) the issue is whether the ch 140 section 129C(h) exemption for "traveling" covers him. If he is allowed to possess the gun in MA while traveling (assuming he meets that requirement) and is thereby exempted from the MA possession (licensing) requirements, then isn't he good on the MA end of the trip for FOPA purposes?

My apologies if this was answered somewhere else in the thread but I don't think it conclusively has been.

Thanks again to all.
As RKG said FOPA specifies that you may legally possess the firearm in both the origin and destination. Short of a lay-over in MA, I don't see anyway FOPA lets you get to the check-in counter without an FID or non-resident LTC. If a friend goes with you to the airport with an FID/LTC, you have the issue of checking luggage belonging to someone else.

No, they don't check much of anything at the counter from what I have seen, but as mentioned, would not want to be the first...
 
FOPA protects you for "Travel" which is very loosely defined as "passing through" in other words, driving through the state on the highway, with stops to eat, get fuel, etc..

Under MA law you are permitted to travel into and within the state if it's for a hunting trip (granted you have a MA hunting license), shooting activity such as a competition, or for a collectors association meeting. (we recommend that all firearms are secured in a locked container, unloaded, with no ammunition, and not accessible from the drivers seat. (don't lock in glove box or console) Bear in mind that you must be licensed in your home state for this to apply.

Basically you can not travel with the shotgun in MA unless it meets one of the above conditions.

Getting the shotgun home. Unless you were recently willed the gun, you would be breaking federal law by taking it across state lines, it would need to be shipped to an FFL in your home state, and picked up there.

GOAL CM addressed the travel issue way back before the issue of ownership came up. He says that the travel exemption is limited to either (1) hunting; (2) competition; or (3) a collectors association meeting. But I don't think this is right.

let's look at the statute: ch 140 sec. 129C: http://www.malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section129c

It says: "No person, other than a licensed dealer or one who has been issued a license to carry a pistol or revolver or an exempt person as hereinafter described, shall own or possess any firearm, rifle, shotgun or ammunition unless he has been issued a firearm identification card by the licensing authority"'

The staute the goes on to list categories of exempted persons: "The provisions of this section shall not apply to the following exempted persons and uses":

sub section (h) has an exemption for poeple traveling: "Possession of rifles and shotguns and ammunition therefor by nonresidents traveling in or through the commonwealth, providing that any rifles or shotguns are unloaded and enclosed in a case;"

So, while I am unlikely to advise my friend to risk it without confirmation, it would seem to me that this exemption (unless I am missing something) does not limit the travel exemption to the 3 categories listed by GOAL CM and that if my friend is just traveling, that he has the right to possess the gun while traveling in MA and out of MA.

I think this is very intersting and hope that no one loses their temper. Thanks again.
 
Len, your advice is not correct, he can not cross state lines with a firearm, it HAS to go from FFL to FFL if it does not belong to him.

I'd be interested in a citation to this.

I am licensed in both Massachusetts and New Hampshire, but I don't own a side-by-side. So I borrow my pal's side-by-side and travel up to Portsmouth, NH, and I have broken a federal law?
 
Alright -- thanks to all for the info. The question that, I think, has been touched on but I don't think fully addressed is this: assuming friend is the bona fide owner of the gun but does not have an FID, can he be covered by FOPA while "traveling" from MA to CA? FOPA requires that he be allowed to possess the gun on both ends of his trip. At the destination (CA) he is covered and at the departure point (MA) the issue is whether the ch 140 section 129C(h) exemption for "traveling" covers him. If he is allowed to possess the gun in MA while traveling (assuming he meets that requirement) and is thereby exempted from the MA possession (licensing) requirements, then isn't he good on the MA end of the trip for FOPA purposes?

My apologies if this was answered somewhere else in the thread but I don't think it conclusively has been.

Thanks again to all.

I, too, believe that is the issue, and my point is that he would be, at best, at the cutting edge of FOPA, which is not a good place to be. Thus, putting aside the question of "transfer" (which, if it was part of this issue, I didn't realize that previously), my suggestion that he have it shipped (versus carrying it himself).
 
El, this is the exemption that you are missing, #2.
Purpose for the Exemption: This exemption only allows certain nonresidents to carry a firearm in or through the state for purposes of competition, attending a collectors’ show, or hunting. It does not allow carry for personal protection.

(please see our page for more information on who the "certain nonresidents" are)

Here's a link to our page with a full list of the exemptions and a link to the MA webpage that has the law.
 
I think I see the problem. The statute that you cite (131G) applies to pistols and revolvers and as far as I can tell does not apply to shotguns. If it did, there would be no need for 129C.
 
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