Non Resident permits, do you have one ?

[Texasgrillchef]

You can get MA now, but it requires a MA class and a trip into the state.

How did you do IL? Did you have to travel to that state?

Some of those seem redundant - WA is covered by UT or FL, NH is constitutional carry, Maine is con carry except certain parks that are covered by a CCW, etc. AZ is con carry and/or reconginzes out of state CCWs, etc. Any why is NY not on your list?

I have redundancy built in for the exact purpose of the fact a state COULD drop reciprocity with another state.

Utah just went constitutional carry this year, so when washington updates in January, they may decide to drop Utah. I got Main for the act reason of their parks.

NY won’t issue a Non-Resident unless you own/lease property, own a business or employed in the state.

I had to go to Illinois to take the CCL class because there isn’t a Illinois CCL instructor in Texas currently teaching. Although two were listed. I am NOW an Illinois CCL instructor, and have taught about 45 Texans the Illinois class. As an instructor I wont have to take the renewal class. All of my Students were able to apply online, so they didn’t have to go to Illinois to get their CCL.

I have applied to be a MA Certified Instructor. I don’t have to go to MA to get my Instructor certification for MA. Once I am certified I won’t have to take the class. Problem with MA is I won’t be able to get an unrestricted LTC. Not until the SCOTUS opinion is released.

Also just received my Utah Instructor Certification.

I was hoping to have my Texas Instructor Certification by now, but the Texas Instructors classes are backed up And I am still waiting for a slot.

So currently I am a CCL/LTC instructor for Illinois, Maryland, Utah. And soon hopefully MA and Texas. Also a NRA Instructor. If some of the other currently May Issue states would open up for Non-Resident licensing, I would consider becoming an instructor for those states as well.

I suspect that after SCOTUS issues their opinion. Some cases will start to be filed to push reciprocity and/or non-resident licensing from those states that refuse to do either. Such as Oregon and California, and maybe Hawaii.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I have applied to be a MA Certified Instructor. I don’t have to go to MA to get my Instructor certification for MA. Once I am certified I won’t have to take the class. Problem with MA is I won’t be able to get an unrestricted LTC. Not until the SCOTUS opinion is released.

To clear up some misconceptions:

The MSP regulations regarding MA instructordom require that you have a current MA LTC to teach the MA licensing course, even if you have a current MA instructor cert but your LTC has lapsed. You need to visit MA upon initial application and once every 6 years to get and keep a non-res MA LTC. Chances are your MA instructor app will be rejected with a notification you will be approved once you have a MA LTC. My MA instructor cert is #7, with the BFS prefix and a few leading zeroes.

As to "not being able to get an unrestricted MA LTC" - don't be too sure. They are sometimes issued to non-residents, particularly ones with a long standing record of having LTCs, holding instructor certifications, etc. Ditto for residents, but ease of getting unrestricted varies by town. Last time I scanned a MA database dump, I found 92% MA LTCs unrestricted. I would be surprised if you ended up with a restricted non-resident LTC. Not shocked, shocked I tell you, but definitely surprised.

As to RI - Never had a problem renewing my unrestricted AG permit ever since 1993. My current renewal is pending - dang, I didn't notice until after the one I had expired, and it's a 90 day processing delay). Your NRA instructor certificate qualifies you to administer the RI licensing shooting test. The biggest problem is getting the Army-L targets (National Target Company sells them or I can karma you a few). But no, you cannot qualify yourself even if you are an instructor.

NY used to issue to non-residents, but then the Chautauqua County law department told then judge Cass to stop doing that. BTDTH1.

If you come to MA to apply for your LTC, contact me and I'll bring something in an interesting caliber to a local range for us to play with, weather permitting.

I have redundancy built in for the exact purpose of the fact a state COULD drop reciprocity with another state.

Most common with Nevada. They update their list annually and it tends to change a bit from year to year. For example, at one time my RI permit was good but not my MA one. The reverse is now true. TX is currently on their list.

Utah just went constitutional carry this year, so when washington updates in January, they may decide to drop Utah. I got Main for the act reason of their parks.

Being excluded from "must notify" is another thing an actual Maine permit gets you, but I expect you already know that.

Now, if you can get a Sealand permit, that would be impressive as it is hard to even get a visa to visit.

 

[Len-2A Training]

MA will not accept instructor credentials in lieu of a MSP BFS Certificate. Maine does accept instructor credentials in lieu of a course, BTDT.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

MA will not accept instructor credentials in lieu of a MSP BFS Certificate. Maine does accept instructor credentials in lieu of a course, BTDT.

Yup, and you can't train yourself because you can't get an instructor certificate without having a MA LTC, and the LTC must be active in order to teach the class. Chicken meet egg.

CT accepted by instructor credentials as well as FL.

 

[Texasgrillchef]

Except for Utah, Illinois and Texas, which all required their state specific training, all my other LTC’s all accepted for training my NRA Instructor certificate. As one has to have the NRA basic Pistol class to even get NRA certified as an Instructor.

what’s interesting is I called the MA state police and asked about the Instructor cert, and said I didn’t have to have my Ma LTC. So not for sure where that stands.

I don’t have a Maryland LTC, but I am a certified Maryland Instructor.

Go figure. I have allready sent the MA paperwork off. So we will see what they say.

 

[Texasgrillchef]

To clear up some misconceptions:

The MSP regulations regarding MA instructordom require that you have a current MA LTC to teach the MA licensing course, even if you have a current MA instructor cert but your LTC has lapsed. You need to visit MA upon initial application and once every 6 years to get and keep a non-res MA LTC. Chances are your MA instructor app will be rejected with a notification you will be approved once you have a MA LTC. My MA instructor cert is #7, with the BFS prefix and a few leading zeroes.

As to "not being able to get an unrestricted MA LTC" - don't be too sure. They are sometimes issued to non-residents, particularly ones with a long standing record of having LTCs, holding instructor certifications, etc. Ditto for residents, but ease of getting unrestricted varies by town. Last time I scanned a MA database dump, I found 92% MA LTCs unrestricted. I would be surprised if you ended up with a restricted non-resident LTC. Not shocked, shocked I tell you, but definitely surprised.

As to RI - Never had a problem renewing my unrestricted AG permit ever since 1993. My current renewal is pending - dang, I didn't notice until after the one I had expired, and it's a 90 day processing delay). Your NRA instructor certificate qualifies you to administer the RI licensing shooting test. The biggest problem is getting the Army-L targets (National Target Company sells them or I can karma you a few). But no, you cannot qualify yourself even if you are an instructor.

NY used to issue to non-residents, but then the Chautauqua County law department told then judge Cass to stop doing that. BTDTH1.

If you come to MA to apply for your LTC, contact me and I'll bring something in an interesting caliber to a local range for us to play with, weather permitting.


Most common with Nevada. They update their list annually and it tends to change a bit from year to year. For example, at one time my RI permit was good but not my MA one. The reverse is now true. TX is currently on their list.


Being excluded from "must notify" is another thing an actual Maine permit gets you, but I expect you already know that.

Now, if you can get a Sealand permit, that would be impressive as it is hard to even get a visa to visit.

So are you telling me for both RI and MA, that with all my LTC’s and My Instructor Certs. That the ”Good Cause” requirement should not be an issue? What do you recommend I put on the application for “Reason to obtain LTC”. Should I say.. for Self Defense, and for Instruction and requirement to obtain Instructor certification?

Did I understand that right that your a MA certified Instructor? Same for RI? So when I come up there, you would be able to certify Me for RI, and do what I need for MA?

 

[Len-2A Training]

So are you telling me for both RI and MA, that with all my LTC’s and My Instructor Certs. That the ”Good Cause” requirement should not be an issue? What do you recommend I put on the application for “Reason to obtain LTC”. Should I say.. for Self Defense, and for Instruction and requirement to obtain Instructor certification?

Did I understand that right that your a MA certified Instructor? Same for RI? So when I come up there, you would be able to certify Me for RI, and do what I need for MA?

Any NRA instructor can administer the RI test. Both Rob and myself are NRA & MSP certified instructors who can provide the BFS training required for a MA LTC. Rob does it in the area West of Boston. I do it in SE NH (Londonderry).

 

[Rob Boudrie]

So are you telling me for both RI and MA, that with all my LTC’s and My Instructor Certs. That the ”Good Cause” requirement should not be an issue? What do you recommend I put on the application for “Reason to obtain LTC”. Should I say.. for Self Defense, and for Instruction and requirement to obtain Instructor certification?

Did I understand that right that your a MA certified Instructor? Same for RI? So when I come up there, you would be able to certify Me for RI, and do what I need for MA?

Taking this private.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Yes, I am a MA certified instructor. #007 in fact (just coincidence).

RI accepts NRA instructordom. You just need to find one with the elusive Army-L target.

 

[Len-2A Training]

RI accepts NRA instructordom. You just need to find one with the elusive Army-L target.

The Army-L targets certainly aren't in local gun shops, but can be ordered from the manufacturers.

If you ever run low, give me a shout as I have a boatload of them and don't expect lots of interest in RI qualifications from up here in SE NH.

 

[Texasgrillchef]

The Army-L targets certainly aren't in local gun shops, but can be ordered from the manufacturers.

If you ever run low, give me a shout as I have a boatload of them and don't expect lots of interest in RI qualifications from up here in SE NH.

When I come up I’ll take a chunk off your hands. I had to buy special targets for Illinois Qualification as well. I probably will for Maryland as well when I Teach a class. I have 20+ signed up with some from Senator Ted Cruz’s office. When SCOTUS issues their opinion. They want to wait till then.

When I come up I would like to do both be certified for both in one trip. Just un for sure if I should wait till the SCOTUS ruling first,. Don’t want to have to deal with being denied and then appealing or having to reapply after. Etc…

Which while some are saying that opinion won’t be till May or June. Looking at statistics, a SCOTUS opinion is issued in an average of 100 days, and the longest to issue ever was 223 days. So 100 days would put it in February 11th. longest would put it at June 14th Shortest ever is 18 days.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

The Army-L targets certainly aren't in local gun shops, but can be ordered from the manufacturers.

If you ever run low, give me a shout as I have a boatload of them and don't expect lots of interest in RI qualifications from up here in SE NH.

So do I, plus the Hopkinton club keeps them in stock for RI qualifications.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Shortest ever is 18 days.

I think the 2004 Bush/Kerry election decision was delivered in less than 18 house And yes, I know "that's different".

 

[Texasgrillchef]

I think the 2004 Bush/Kerry election decision was delivered in less than 18 house And yes, I know "that's different".

Exactly,

I don’t think NYSPRA v NY will become the longest and be longer then the 223 days, I also don’t think it will be less then the 100 day average.

we can start a pool! Lol i would bet on sometime in the last 7 days of April, putting total days at about 155 days.

 

[Jared]

ME NH MA RI (AG and town) CT PA FL TX AZ UT

 

[Jared]

So are you telling me for both RI and MA, that with all my LTC’s and My Instructor Certs. That the ”Good Cause” requirement should not be an issue? What do you recommend I put on the application for “Reason to obtain LTC”. Should I say.. for Self Defense, and for Instruction and requirement to obtain Instructor certification?

Did I understand that right that your a MA certified Instructor? Same for RI? So when I come up there, you would be able to certify Me for RI, and do what I need for MA?

PM me with specifics and I’ll try to guide you in the right direction for cities and towns in RI.

Each department is different and most of the RI applications are garbage and are a poorly patched application from the AG application.

For example, most of them want you to qualify on the “AMY-L” target…. I never met AMY… I’m sure she’s a nice woman .

Some ask for a “proper showing of need” which is from the AG statute and the Supreme Court as told police chiefs that it’s not proper for them to use that. Others let you know that if you are a retired cop and applying to the AG to do x,y, and z.… even though they aren’t the AG.

The reasons I bring those examples up is because it shows that few departments took the time to read 11-47-11 and the supporting court cases and develop an application that is properly constructed for the issuance of a license.

I don’t recommend you apply to the AG unless you are a retired LEO, politically connected, or have a specific business reason.

The reason requirement for a town one is

1. reason to fear injury to person or property

OR

2. and other proper reason.

the RI Supreme Court has said being a gun collector is a proper reason. I always recommend everyone throws in gun collector on top of whatever additional reason(s).

I’ve had a MA NR license on and off for 16 years. I’ve never had an issue with them, 131F (the licensing statute) doesn’t have much for requirements and they have a lot of leeway. The statute doesn’t even mention suitability but the MA SJC managed to magically read that word into the statute.

That said, they were always very friendly and easy to deal with. My brother and other friends had the same experience. My late uncle had one of the MA FRB workers ask him a stupid question (I don’t recall what) and he gave him a smart ass response. He had unrestricted each and every year up until his death. During one of my interviews, the person took a phone call from someone who was unhappy with their initial license being restricted. The rep told them to write a letter explaining why they weren’t happy and they would amend it to have no restrictions. They view their functions of issuing a license as a bureaucratic function. Overall, they don’t view it on ideological grounds, whether to issue as many as they can or to trim down the number of out of state gun carriers.

 

[Texasgrillchef]

As I understand Rhode Island Gen lwas 11-47-15 and 11-47-16

§ 11-47-15 Proof of ability required for license or permit. – No person shall be issued a license or permit to carry a pistol or revolver concealed upon his or her person until he or she has presented certification as prescribed in § 11-47-16 that he or she has qualified with a pistol or revolver of a caliber equal to or larger than the one he or she intends to carry, that qualification to consist of firing a score of one hundred ninety-five (195) or better out of a possible score of three hundred (300) with thirty (30) consecutive rounds at a distance of twenty-five (25) yards on the army "L" target, firing "slow" fire. The "slow" fire course shall allow ten (10) minutes for the firing of each of three (3) ten (10) shot strings.

§ 11-47-16. Certification of qualification.

The range officer of the Rhode Island state police, the range officer of any city or town police department maintaining a regular and continuing firearms training program, a pistol instructor certified by the National Rifle Association and/or the United States Revolver Association, and any other qualified persons that the attorney general may designate are authorized to certify the qualification required by §§ 11-47-15 and 11-47-15.1. The certification required by §§ 11-47-15, 11-47-15.1 and § 11-47-15.3 shall be accomplished on a form to be prescribed by the attorney general.

from the way it appears is that Any NRA certified instructor can give me the test, as long as long as it’s on a form prescribed by the state AG of Rhode Island? Is that correct?

where do I obtain this form? Also I have never see an “Army ”L” target”. Although a internet search on that type of Target references it as a B22 target.

 

[Len-2A Training]

As I understand Rhode Island Gen lwas 11-47-15 and 11-47-16

§ 11-47-15 Proof of ability required for license or permit. – No person shall be issued a license or permit to carry a pistol or revolver concealed upon his or her person until he or she has presented certification as prescribed in § 11-47-16 that he or she has qualified with a pistol or revolver of a caliber equal to or larger than the one he or she intends to carry, that qualification to consist of firing a score of one hundred ninety-five (195) or better out of a possible score of three hundred (300) with thirty (30) consecutive rounds at a distance of twenty-five (25) yards on the army "L" target, firing "slow" fire. The "slow" fire course shall allow ten (10) minutes for the firing of each of three (3) ten (10) shot strings.

§ 11-47-16. Certification of qualification.

The range officer of the Rhode Island state police, the range officer of any city or town police department maintaining a regular and continuing firearms training program, a pistol instructor certified by the National Rifle Association and/or the United States Revolver Association, and any other qualified persons that the attorney general may designate are authorized to certify the qualification required by §§ 11-47-15 and 11-47-15.1. The certification required by §§ 11-47-15, 11-47-15.1 and § 11-47-15.3 shall be accomplished on a form to be prescribed by the attorney general.

from the way it appears is that Any NRA certified instructor can give me the test, as long as long as it’s on a form prescribed by the state AG of Rhode Island? Is that correct?

where do I obtain this form? Also I have never see an “Army ”L” target”. Although a internet search on that type of Target references it as a B22 target.

Yes, any NRA instructor can run the test. Army L targets are as rare as hen's teeth. I had to order 100 of them online and probably still have 90+. Now that I'm living in NH, I'm not very likely to get many students that want the test anymore. IIRC, you should be able to DL the form from the RI state website (I don't recall where) or the student may get it with the packet for applying to RI and bring it with him/her.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Yes, any NRA instructor can run the test. Army L targets are as rare as hen's teeth. I had to order 100 of them online and probably still have 90+. Now that I'm living in NH, I'm not very likely to get many students that want the test anymore. IIRC, you should be able to DL the form from the RI state website (I don't recall where) or the student may get it with the packet for applying to RI and bring it with him/her.

I keep Army Ls in stock in my basement and we keep a supply at the Hopkinton club for RI quals.

 

[Deleted member 67409]

from the way it appears is that Any NRA certified instructor can give me the test, as long as long as it’s on a form prescribed by the state AG of Rhode Island? Is that correct?

where do I obtain this form? Also I have never see an “Army ”L” target”. Although a internet search on that type of Target references it as a B22 target.

Yes, any NRA instructor can run the test. Army L targets are as rare as hen's teeth. I had to order 100 of them online and probably still have 90+. Now that I'm living in NH, I'm not very likely to get many students that want the test anymore. IIRC, you should be able to DL the form from the RI state website (I don't recall where) or the student may get it with the packet for applying to RI and bring it with him/her.

Did I understand that right that your a MA certified Instructor? Same for RI? So when I come up there, you would be able to certify Me for RI, and do what I need for MA?

The easiest way to do the shooting test is to go to a RI rental range and have an instructor there do the test. There's three public rental ranges in the state. All of them are very supportive of trying to get people carrying. Call in advance or contact them through social media if you have more questions. As of 1/22, these are:

Elite Indoor Gun Range in South Kingstown
Sakonnet River Outfitters in Tiverton
Midstate Guns in Coventry

The permitting system doesn't distinguish between resident and nonresident permits in the same way that more modern permitting systems do, like say NH for instance. You get a permit, not a special non-res permit. Because of this, there's some complications that preclude people from far away from applying for permits. But if you're near RI, either meet up with an instructor you know or go to a rental range in RI. The rental ranges are very good for setting people up to apply for carry permits and I believe all of them offer full (voluntary) classes.

 

[Jared]

As I understand Rhode Island Gen lwas 11-47-15 and 11-47-16

§ 11-47-15 Proof of ability required for license or permit. – No person shall be issued a license or permit to carry a pistol or revolver concealed upon his or her person until he or she has presented certification as prescribed in § 11-47-16 that he or she has qualified with a pistol or revolver of a caliber equal to or larger than the one he or she intends to carry, that qualification to consist of firing a score of one hundred ninety-five (195) or better out of a possible score of three hundred (300) with thirty (30) consecutive rounds at a distance of twenty-five (25) yards on the army "L" target, firing "slow" fire. The "slow" fire course shall allow ten (10) minutes for the firing of each of three (3) ten (10) shot strings.

§ 11-47-16. Certification of qualification.

The range officer of the Rhode Island state police, the range officer of any city or town police department maintaining a regular and continuing firearms training program, a pistol instructor certified by the National Rifle Association and/or the United States Revolver Association, and any other qualified persons that the attorney general may designate are authorized to certify the qualification required by §§ 11-47-15 and 11-47-15.1. The certification required by §§ 11-47-15, 11-47-15.1 and § 11-47-15.3 shall be accomplished on a form to be prescribed by the attorney general.

from the way it appears is that Any NRA certified instructor can give me the test, as long as long as it’s on a form prescribed by the state AG of Rhode Island? Is that correct?

where do I obtain this form? Also I have never see an “Army ”L” target”. Although a internet search on that type of Target references it as a B22 target.

there is no standardized form. Each application has a page where the NRA instructor signs and writes your score and caliber alone with their NRA #.

 

[Mesatchornug]

Yes, any NRA instructor can run the test. Army L targets are as rare as hen's teeth. I had to order 100 of them online and probably still have 90+. Now that I'm living in NH, I'm not very likely to get many students that want the test anymore. IIRC, you should be able to DL the form from the RI state website (I don't recall where) or the student may get it with the packet for applying to RI and bring it with him/her.

Can an instructor run it for himself?

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Can an instructor run it for himself?

The RI instructions specifically say NO (at least the AG version of the instructions)

 

[Mesatchornug]

The RI instructions specifically say NO (at least the AG version of the instructions)

Thanks.

 

[Jared]

Can an instructor run it for himself?

Nothing in RIGL 11-47-16 prevents you from qualifying yourself. Its also a 1 time thing as how the 1959 statute was written, unless you wanted a new license for a larger caliber. That’s how it reads and that’s how the author of the statute explained it to me.

That said, no issuing authority will “allow” you to qualify yourself. Most licensing authorities also “require“ the qual was within the past 12 months. None of this is in statute but that’s life with RI bureaucrats.

 

[Texasgrillchef]

Nothing in RIGL 11-47-16 prevents you from qualifying yourself. Its also a 1 time thing as how the 1959 statute was written, unless you wanted a new license for a larger caliber. That’s how it reads and that’s how the author of the statute explained it to me.

That said, no issuing authority will “allow” you to qualify yourself. Most licensing authorities also “require“ the qual was within the past 12 months. None of this is in statute but that’s life with RI bureaucrats.

People/governments try to get away with whatever they can, unless they are forced too by litigation or the fear of it.

RI hasn’t been forced too and they aren’t afraid of the litigation. No one has been willing to pony up the bucks to challenge the law. Especially when there are more important gun laws to spend the limited funds we have on.