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Non-NFA Mossberg 500 Cruiser - Mass OK?

E

Errant

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May 1, 2012
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Hello folks,

I've seen something about this here before, but after a search came up with nothing. Shockwave Technologies advertises converting a Mossberg 500 Cruiser to a Non-NFA firearm with a 14" barrel. Seems legit but MA seems to always "add to" existing federal laws. I own a Mossberg 500 Mariner. It is the JIC model (PGO). Can I make this conversion myself or have it done by someone else? Thank you for your time and consideration.
 
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The grip is from Shockwave, it's the "Raptor" grip and it's nothing short of perfect. It was less than $35 to my door. After receiving it, I returned to the ST website and saw the non-NFA 14" barrel page. I'm sure I'll find myself on the brown end of the stick, but maybe someone knows MA gun law well enough to say different. If you're interested in the grip, check out youtube reviews, or just a general web search as there is a lot of information on it. I can't see changing it out ever. Can anyone tell me what class the 500 would fall into with the 14" barrel if it made the 26" OAL and were legal?
 
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It would have to weigh less than 50oz in order to be allowed as a pistol in MA. I'm not that familiar with shotguns so I couldn't ballpark how much that would weigh.
 
WallHack said:
You can buy Mare's legs in MA. I think the answer for this particular shottie lies in MA's definition of "shotgun....
Click to expand...

Are you sure about that? I know the Henry version is considered a pistol and is not on the ma approved firearms roster therefore not legal for a ma dealer to transfer to you... The reason people get away with short barreled firearms such as this shotgun and the maers legs is that they are not considered long guns federally but rather handguns...
 
I am finding this really hard to accept on the fed level...
I don't believe you can get around this being at least an AOW.

I will say.. You go first!!!
 
Donvin999 said:
Are you sure about that? I know the Henry version is considered a pistol and is not on the ma approved firearms roster therefore not legal for a ma dealer to transfer to you... The reason people get away with short barreled firearms such as this shotgun and the maers legs is that they are not considered long guns federally but rather handguns...
Click to expand...

Much like newer Glocks, if you look around you'll find them
 
Donvin999 said:
Are you sure about that? I know the Henry version is considered a pistol and is not on the ma approved firearms roster therefore not legal for a ma dealer to transfer to you... The reason people get away with short barreled firearms such as this shotgun and the maers legs is that they are not considered long guns federally but rather handguns...
Click to expand...

Much like newer Glocks, if you look around you'll find them
 
I have a 14" AOW. Not a lot of fun to shoot..

If I could get one of these in a 20g I'd be all over it.. But not going to go through the Nfa hoops..
 
Anyone deal with MA state ATF offices? I see multiple numbers listed for supervisors in the Boston area. I also see a number for a "Resident Agent in Charge" here in Springfield. Do you suppose I might get a straight answer and something in black & white regarding this?
 
Errant said:
Anyone deal with MA state ATF offices? I see multiple numbers listed for supervisors in the Boston area. I also see a number for a "Resident Agent in Charge" here in Springfield. Do you suppose I might get a straight answer and something in black & white regarding this?
Click to expand...
Can't be a pistol as it is smoothbore.

ATF Local office may know little to nothing about NFA let alone Ma law. You would have to ask the NFA branch itself in writing if this would be considered a SBS or AOW and you would get a written reply based upon federal law. IIRC it is like the short barreled ARs that have an oal of something like 26+ inches so they are not considered NFA, again, something like they are not considered readily concealed. I don't recall all the specifics but with MA law, don't expect to get clear of a trial if some PO sees it and wants to arrest you.

Buy a birds head grip and put it on an 18 inch barrel or get an AOW or SBS.

Forgot to mention, cutting any shotgun barrel under 18 inches in this state may be an easy way to get prosecuted for a "sawed off shotgun". That's the reason why they only approve factory SBS and AOWs in this state now. No form 1 for making your own anymore.
 
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Damn I have a 500 cruiser in 12 ga that has never had a butt stock on it. It was purchased with a PG. If I could take 4" off the barrel it would be bad ass. If that Shockwave PG takes the nasty out of shooting that thing I'd go there. Worst that can happen is I buy a new 18" barrel to replace the chopped barrel. BTW it is no fun to shot that 18" with the stock Mossberg PG. Slugs are a nightmare! The only positive note is that my wife won't go near it. I have 2 guns. My Mossberg 500 and My G36. Those are the spawn of the devil according to her. Everything else is "her's" or so she tells me. [hmmm]

It's horrible when the only fights you have are over what firearms belong to whom. Sometimes you have to put your foot down though.
 
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Oh man FreeWillie, that's rough! I'm not sure if you can cut the barrel or it has to be bought from a manufacturer. This part is not clear to me, but I'm fairly certain you can't cut it. I've called the AG's office with all this who directed me to the Firearms Records Bureau who directed me to the state ATF who directed me to the local licensing authority which would be one of the four deputy police chiefs in Springfield. Left a message, no reply. I'm going to go there in person this weekend or the beginning of next week. I'll let you all know how I make out.
 
FreeWillie said:
Damn I have a 500 cruiser in 12 ga that has never had a butt stock on it. It was purchased with a PG. If I could take 4" off the barrel it would be bad ass. If that Shockwave PG takes the nasty out of shooting that thing I'd go there. Worst that can happen is I buy a new 18" barrel to replace the chopped barrel. BTW it is no fun to shot that 18" with the stock Mossberg PG. Slugs are a nightmare! The only positive note is that my wife won't go near it. I have 2 guns. My Mossberg 500 and My G36. Those are the spawn of the devil according to her. Everything else is "her's" or so she tells me. [hmmm]

It's horrible when the only fights you have are over what firearms belong to whom. Sometimes you have to put your foot down though.
Click to expand...

I'd suggest getting the grip and putting it on your current moss 500. I don't think a shorter BBL is going to do anything as far as recoil. If anything making it lighter will make it kick more..
 
01SVTvert said:
Can't be a pistol as it is smoothbore.

ATF Local office may know little to nothing about NFA let alone Ma law. You would have to ask the NFA branch itself in writing if this would be considered a SBS or AOW and you would get a written reply based upon federal law. IIRC it is like the short barreled ARs that have an oal of something like 26+ inches so they are not considered NFA, again, something like they are not considered readily concealed. I don't recall all the specifics but with MA law, don't expect to get clear of a trial if some PO sees it and wants to arrest you.

Buy a birds head grip and put it on an 18 inch barrel or get an AOW or SBS.

Forgot to mention, cutting any shotgun barrel under 18 inches in this state may be an easy way to get prosecuted for a "sawed off shotgun". That's the reason why they only approve factory SBS and AOWs in this state now. No form 1 for making your own anymore.
Click to expand...

Yes, I believe that's all true. However, if you check the parts list listed on the Shockwave site, they list factory 14" barrels. I think this is the way around it. I'm sure my local licensing authority won't know either but maybe they can point me in the right direction. In any case, checking with the NFA branch can't hurt, would anyone have contact the
information?
 
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From the link:

"Well, first off, let me say, it’s not a new ruling. It’s the same position that ATF has always taken regarding PGO firearms that fire a fixed shotgun shell that have NEVER had a buttstock attached to them—they’re NOT shotguns! They’re simply firearms. As such, they don’t necessarily need to have 18″+ barrels on them to remain out of the purview of the NFA.
You see, the very definition of a “shotgun” requires that it be “designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder…” Without a buttstock ever having been fitted to the PGO firearms in question, they can’t be fired from the shoulder and are therefore not shotguns. Hence, with a 14″ barrel, they can’t be considered short-barreled shotguns, as they aren’t shotguns to begin with. Read the full definition of a shotgun here."

******************************************************************************************
What part of the above paragraphs do you not understand, paying particular attention to the second line in the first paragraph.


Massachusetts state law regulates further.
If YOU intend to cut the barrel of an existing gun to less than 18 inches you're out of luck in MA. unless you've got a manufacturers type 07 or type 10 SOT ffl.
 
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Finalygotabeltfed said:
From the link:

"Well, first off, let me say, it’s not a new ruling. It’s the same position that ATF has always taken regarding PGO firearms that fire a fixed shotgun shell that have NEVER had a buttstock attached to them—they’re NOT shotguns! They’re simply firearms. As such, they don’t necessarily need to have 18″+ barrels on them to remain out of the purview of the NFA.
You see, the very definition of a “shotgun” requires that it be “designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder…” Without a buttstock ever having been fitted to the PGO firearms in question, they can’t be fired from the shoulder and are therefore not shotguns. Hence, with a 14″ barrel, they can’t be considered short-barreled shotguns, as they aren’t shotguns to begin with. Read the full definition of a shotgun here."

******************************************************************************************
What part of the above paragraphs do you not understand, paying particular attention to the second line in the first paragraph.
Click to expand...


The question was not whether they are Federally legal. It was about how they fit into MA laws.
 
Mike-Mike said:
The question was not whether they are Federally legal. It was about how they fit into MA laws.
Click to expand...

Yes, I amended my post. Massachusetts regulates them further. If they were legal to possess without a type 07 or type 10 ffl, I'd have had a pile of them years ago.

Apparently the OP wants to cut an existing 18 Mossberg mariner model to a 14 inch barrel and put the birds head grip on it. Its not legal to do or possess by the unlicensed individual.
 
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If sbs's are on the nfa list because they are so devastating,

how come the consensus here is use a pistol for home defence?

the ATF seems to think a sbs is too Killy for an average person to defend themselves with.

But any pistol under 50ozs is ok,must be deemed not as effective by them?
 
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Mike-Mike said:
What if I bought a factory 14" barrel and stuck it on a PGO gun with an OAL of 26.5?
Click to expand...

According to Massachusetts law, they'll define it as a sawed off shotgun:

“Sawed-off shotgun”, any weapon made from a shotgun, whether by alteration, modification or otherwise, if such weapon as modified has one or more barrels less than 18 inches in length or as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches.


Massachusetts doesn't care about the origin of the receiver or whether it was previously built as a shotgun or not built at all. They restrict barrel length to 18 inches unless you have a type 07 or type 10 SOT ffl.

Like I said, if they were legal to make or possess otherwise, I'd have had a pile of them years ago.
 
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