Non lethal

[BrianWilson]

So at what threat level is it "legal" to use them? To prevent a beating? Only to avoid injury, or permanent injury, protect property, to keep your new 511 operator pants from getting dirty or torn ???? I get the whole "don't ask don't tell", "SSS", better tried by 12 than carried by 6" thing, but where's the line, assuming you are going to have to explain yourself after, when ( well...how soon) do you spray..when do you zap ?

 

[jct61765]

That's going to be up to you.

 

[BUMPA01603]

Follow your gut, it's the only part of your body making a split second decision for you. The rest will sort itself after.

 

[Matt_SERE]

Not sure what you are calling non-letal. The police luse less lethal.

If you use whatever it is you are talking about that fact will be used against you. You should always be trying to eliminate the threat. Now here is the problem. Less lethal kills, somethimes. Are you aware of the possibilities of death in your non-lethal assault on another human being? *sarc tag, kinda. Don't forget a punch can be lethal.


Oct 22, 2004 · BOSTON - A college student celebrating the Red Sox come-from-behind victory over the New York Yankees was killed after a police officer called in to control the rowdy crowd shot her in the eye with what was designed to be a non-lethal projectile.


Tragedy in Boston: The impact projectile death of Victoria Snelgrove
Tragedy in Boston: The impact projectile death of Victoria Snelgrove

The Stern Commission investigation lasted six months, and members interviewed 111 witnesses, reviewed voluminous case files including hundreds of reports, video tapes, and photographs, and met with department personnel, representatives of the Snelgrove family, and representatives of the manufacturer-FN USA. The group released its final report on May 25, 2005, and offered a number of findings including:

• That less-lethal weapons offer promising benefits, and provide law enforcement with additional tools to arrest a person, disarm a person, or de-escalate a public disorder.
• That less-lethal does not mean non-lethal, as the devices can cause serious injuries and even death, and upon recognizing this-safeguards must be put in place.

 

[BrianWilson]

A quick look found me the Army Corps of Engineers Park Ranger protocols for spray, for whatever that's worth.
https://corpslakes.erdc.dren.mil/employees/cecwon/pdfs/0204-pepperspray.pdf
Basically prevent physical harm, or to facilitate escape from same. Local law enforcement must be notified. Interestingly enough, use is authorized to stop an assault only on the ranger him/herself, is specifically forbidden to be used to stop an assault on anyone else.

 

[Drix]

My personal feeling is that because it holds the same licensure as a firearm, it comes with the same obligations for use, if the obligations were different surely the standards would be too.

 

[enbloc]

I always try to start with this...

if that don't work, I get nasty-dirty...

and if that don't work...

Not sure I could ever "spray" a man. Cats do that...

 

[enbloc]

now, non-lethal for a police officer during performance of duties...

 

[kalash]

What are you using for non-lethal? I wouldn't hesitate to pepper spray an aggressive vagrant but I wouldn't hit him with a kubaton...

 

[HorizontalHunter]

My personal feeling is that because it holds the same licensure as a firearm, it comes with the same obligations for use, if the obligations were different surely the standards would be too.

Pepper spray is over the counter now if your are 18+

Bob

 

[lcwalk]

Im Looking for a place for the Wife to target practice with her Non Lethal BYRNA . Any Ideas such as woods , Ranges etc?

 

[Mesatchornug]

Im Looking for a place for the Wife to target practice with her Non Lethal BYRNA . Any Ideas such as woods , Ranges etc?

It's a glorified paintball gun. Go out in the back yard and put up a piece of plywood as a target.

 

[lcwalk]

Unfortunately its black looks real and sounds like a 22. I live in the city. wouldn't want a visit from the Po Pos

 

[MaverickNH]

If you are able-bodied, learn to defend yourself with a continuum of force. Open-carry is problematic for many reasons, including that anyone stupid or able enough to go after a man with a gun is either crazy or wants to take your gun. CCW has the edge there.

Since you’ve been on the forum 13yr+ you’ve probably seen some training opportunities to consider.

 

[Mesatchornug]

Unfortunately its black looks real and sounds like a 22. I live in the city. wouldn't want a visit from the Po Pos

How big is your apartment? You could hang a blanket from a pull-up bar in a doorway, then practice with the "Kinetic" projectiles. If you're worried about neighbor attention, play some loud music while you're at it.

Or, go out in the woods. But still follow the same safety rules as you would with a firearm - hitting some Karen out walking her dog is going to get you a visit from LE just the same.