No need for a ban apparently ...

[Alchemist17]

Saiga 12 Importation - ATF growls, importers throw them a bone ...

 

[Terminator03]

Nice way to artificially drive the market prices anyway...

 

[flintoid]

More rumor based Bull Shit.

Please stop posting this crap. Seriously.

 

[Alchemist17]

More rumor based Bull Shit.

Please stop posting this crap. Seriously.

Seriously? You're free to ignore posts you don't like. To me this is kind of a big deal - importers ceasing a perfectly legal and profitable endeavor to ask for government permission to proceed.

 

[flintoid]

Seriously? You're free to ignore posts you don't like. To me this is kind of a big deal - importers ceasing a perfectly legal and profitable endeavor to ask for government permission to proceed.

Oh it would certainly be a big deal if it weren't just a rumor and total bullshit.

Do you know how to read? If this was stated by Mercury Hermes, then it'd be a fact. But it is NOT.

So, let me repeat:

More rumor based Bull Shit.

Please stop posting this crap. Seriously.

Stop posting vendor propaganda. If you are that worried about inflating the price of something you want to buy, please shoot yourself in the foot first. Then touch your keyboard.

 

[glostamon]

More rumor based Bull Shit.

Please stop posting this crap. Seriously.

+1..but it was on facebook.

The banning of Saiga 12s circulates the interwebs & Saiga forums/community once or twice a year ..sometimes as long as every couple years will pass without rumors flyin'.

 

[Alchemist17]

Oh it would certainly be a big deal if it weren't just a rumor and total bullshit.

Do you know how to read? If this was stated by Mercury Hermes, then it'd be a fact. But it is NOT.

So, let me repeat:

Stop posting vendor propaganda. If you are that worried about inflating the price of something you want to buy, please shoot yourself in the foot first. Then touch your keyboard.

Do I know how to read is a rather stupid question for an online forum.

I'm not posting vendor propaganda, and I honestly don't care in the least about the price of the Saiga-12 at the moment. There are plenty of rumors of this from different sources, and yes, I admit that much of the word is second-hand at this point. But I also know that ATF recently released their "study" that would severely limit shotguns without a "sporting purpose" according to the current BAFTE definition. And I know that no company wants to be stuck with a huge stock of "Destructive Devices" that they'll never be able to unload. So it makes total sense for an importer to be worried about imports that may be rendered essentially worthless by regulatory fiat, and to suspend operations, even if the net effect is that ATF doesn't need to actually ban anything, just threaten. And I know enough about large corporations to not be surprised when they try to push off an unpopular decision in as low-key a fashion as possible.

The banning of Saiga 12s circulates the interwebs & Saiga forums/community once or twice a year ..sometimes as long as every couple years will pass without rumors flyin'.

True, but again (1) this is not a ban, but a "voluntary" import limitation, and (2) it comes immediately after a proposed ATF regulations targeting shotguns exactly like the Saiga-12. I'd rather people make their opinions known - both to the importers and to ATF - than to sit back because you're convinced it's "just a rumor".

 

[flintoid]

Do I know how to read is a rather stupid question for an online forum.

This is actually a very valid question for you because the blog that you are linking in your original post is about a facebook post made by a vendor (who, coincidentally, has a large stock of Saiga 12 shotguns).

It was not a statement by the importer, Mercury-Hermes LLC.

It was posted on the vendor's facebook account- an account created for ... wait for it... the promotion of their sales, ALSO KNOWN AS MARKETING.

Question: What do vendors do?

Answer: They sell stuff for profit.

Question: Why would a vendor have a facebook account?

Answer: To sell more stuff for profit.


How the f*ck does this lead you to believe that this is credible information?


I've contacted the importer and will share with you any information that they give me. Until then I award you no points. And may god have mercy on your soul.

 

[william_munny]

You see, the problem is that as far as anyone can tell, importation has not ceased. So it's an unfounded rumor, and you're posting it as if it is not. Not only that, the announcement on the site you link to pretty much says "ZOMG, they aren't gonna sell these anymore, call us now to buy yours from us before it's too late!!!!!11", so yeah....

ETA: This is pretty much the same as when people post the link to "Hilary Clinton and the UN wrote some thingy that's gonna take all of your guns!!!!!!111"

ETA2: As an aside, I wonder how the pro-AR/anti-AK crowd feels about Saiga shotguns.........

 

[MichaelJR]

You see, the problem is that as far as anyone can tell, importation has not ceased. So it's an unfounded rumor, and you're posting it as if it is not. Not only that, the announcement on the site you link to pretty much says "ZOMG, they aren't gonna sell these anymore, call us now to buy yours from us before it's too late!!!!!11", so yeah....

ETA: This is pretty much the same as when people post the link to "Hilary Clinton and the UN wrote some thingy that's gonna take all of your guns!!!!!!111"

 

[flintoid]

And, here's some food for thought: I'd be willing to guess that this vendor bought all these Saiga 12 shotguns before this ATF induced buying craze- probably at a reasonable market value.

Who wouldn't want to sell things for exorbitantly more money than what it's actually worth? I'll tell you that a vendor sitting on a pile of guns wouldn't mind pulling more money out of your nose! So, being that this ATF thing is all blown over, they're going to do what they can to trick the shit out of you.

 

[JayD]

 

[flintoid]

 

[flintoid]

I mean, for christ's sake: they are fear mongering every product they sell-

"buy stag 3 ar15s! Avoid the PRE BAN RUSH!"

"here's a link to a lengthy ATF 'study' that you should read. We won't decipher it, but it might mean that the Saiga 12 is banned. Better hurry over and buy one!"

"Our importer stopped importing Saiga 12's! Better hurry over and buy one before they're GONE FOREVER."


Alchemist17- are we on the same page now? Do you get what they're doing to you? Ground control to major tom....

 

[Alchemist17]

I mean, for christ's sake: they are fear mongering every product they sell-

"buy stag 3 ar15s! Avoid the PRE BAN RUSH!"

"here's a link to a lengthy ATF 'study' that you should read. We won't decipher it, but it might mean that the Saiga 12 is banned. Better hurry over and buy one!"

"Our importer stopped importing Saiga 12's! Better hurry over and buy one before they're GONE FOREVER."


Alchemist17- are we on the same page now? Do you get what they're doing to you? Ground control to major tom....

They aren't doing anything to me. Sure, they're trying to hawk their product - I expect nothing less from a company, and the fact that "company uses social media to sell products, classes with pushy and possibly misleading ads" isn't exactly news. They're not the only place I've been seeing these rumors, and honestly I don't care if they're currently just rumors - and I'm not trying to stampede people into buying them.

I've read the study in question, and it has all sorts of potential implications, one of which could be denying import on "box-style" magazines for shotguns. And since shotguns over .410 exist as Title 1 firearms ONLY because they're found to have "sporting purpose" there's no guarantee that this will be limited to an import ban.

Title 26,5845 subsection (f)(2)
The term “destructive device” means ... (2) any type of weapon by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, the barrel or barrels of which have a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter, except a shotgun or shotgun shell which the Secretary finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes;

By the law, any shotgun that is found not to be "particularly suitable for sporting purpose" is a Destructive Device per the NFA. This is not a 922(r) situation where an import ban would not effect domestic production - there's every reason to believe that such reasoning would be applied to domestic manufacturers as well, and more worrying, that said manufacturers would simply stop production rather than risk a court fight with the BAFTE. Given that they're pretty much the only ones with standing to challenge such regulations, such behavior is worrying to me.

So yes, I concede that corporations are trying to sell products at a profit, and are using current events to do so. I also conceded that the sky is blue (at least when it isn't snowing), water is wet, and MA politicians are corrupt. They're all beside the point. Unlike previous rumors, this time there is a concrete study definitively produced by the ATF, and it is clearly possible to interpret the study to imply a complete ban on products like the Saiga-12, as well as an extension of the "import" application of "sporting purposes" to domestic production. Even if these are just rumors, the value of encouraging people to tell both importers/resellers and BAFTE that they find this unacceptable is more than worth it. Rolling over and letting BATFE have their way simply because some company is trying to make money on it seems a poor tradeoff to me.

 

[drgrant]

Guys, there's already a thread on this here. Feel free to post in it, but I don't see how alarmist pap from one FFL is any different from what we already know:

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...ssue-new-ruling-Monday-on-shotgun-import-regs

-Mike