NICS requiring address for delayed and denied

How in the hell could a delayed turn into a denied? Your record is clean or it isn't.

On thought, errors.

The FBI database receives contributions from the states criminal justice systems. Entry errors, pending dispositions, or old court information that is not properly updated ... and, you may not necessarily know about it until you perform a background check, et al. Expungement is an example where dispositions in the FBI database may not receive automatic updates. I suspect in some instances these get flagged and it ends up being adjudicated by an agent even if you're factually/fictionally clear in your state.

There are ways to peek into that information, sort-of like a personal FOIA, but it's been a while since I've done that. Typically after a negative response with a time frame in which you can dig deeper into the reasoning.

There have also been reports of misidentification due to biometric similarities between two individuals or erroneous cross-referencing, as well.
 
Perhaps there's a difference in the types of clearances that are issued.?. Maybe there's a difference in the programs you were cleared for.?.
Maybe some programs are more important than others? Did you have to renew every five years, get a poly and fill out a new SF-86?
Were you ever cleared for TS in the early 1960s (while in the military)?
While I won't openly discuss my clearance, I will say that many of those persons I reference have elevated levels of clearance either now or in the past.
 
The level of paranoid retard in this thread is extreme but not unexpected for NES.

Taking the law and atf communication at face value (we can wear tinfoil in a different thread)

Delayed does not result in local PD notification. Only Denied. Addresses could be collected for all backgrounds but they are not. The information is on the 4473. They are collecting it for delayed and denied and then using it for denied.

People seem generally confuse about how a background works. Information is given NICS such as name, race, height, etc. The computer does a PARTIAL match of the fields against its database of bad people (or questionable people). If it gets a hit it goes to researching, requiring a human to look at the information. If a human does not look in 20 minutes or decides it’s hard, it goes to delayed.

For some people entering their social security number causes enough partial matches that they get researching while leaving off their social they get instant proceed.

Your clearance is irrelevant. If your record is clean than the delay is a partial match on someone else. But also remember that your records might have old arrests that while dismissed, NICS does not have the dismissed info. NICS does not understand CWOF.

The more common your name the greater the chances of a partial match. Partial. So your name does not even need to be spelled the same way.

Because MA requires a license to possess, this is all more likely to be ignored than elsewhere. It’s already the case that your getting arrested or some other potential disqualifying event results in notification to your licensing authority and suspension of your license. A false positive Denied could result in extra scrutiny, but they are not that common….

Delayed is not an issue. Nothing new is happening.
 
The level of paranoid retard in this thread is extreme but not unexpected for NES.

Taking the law and atf communication at face value (we can wear tinfoil in a different thread)

Delayed does not result in local PD notification. Only Denied. Addresses could be collected for all backgrounds but they are not. The information is on the 4473. They are collecting it for delayed and denied and then using it for denied.

People seem generally confuse about how a background works. Information is given NICS such as name, race, height, etc. The computer does a PARTIAL match of the fields against its database of bad people (or questionable people). If it gets a hit it goes to researching, requiring a human to look at the information. If a human does not look in 20 minutes or decides it’s hard, it goes to delayed.

For some people entering their social security number causes enough partial matches that they get researching while leaving off their social they get instant proceed.

Your clearance is irrelevant. If your record is clean than the delay is a partial match on someone else. But also remember that your records might have old arrests that while dismissed, NICS does not have the dismissed info. NICS does not understand CWOF.

The more common your name the greater the chances of a partial match. Partial. So your name does not even need to be spelled the same way.

Because MA requires a license to possess, this is all more likely to be ignored than elsewhere. It’s already the case that your getting arrested or some other potential disqualifying event results in notification to your licensing authority and suspension of your license. A false positive Denied could result in extra scrutiny, but they are not that common….

Delayed is not an issue. Nothing new is happening.

Sorry for my ignorance but in MA do they use NICS at all when buying a gun? I thought the permits qualified.
 
The more common your name the greater the chances of a partial match. Partial. So your name does not even need to be spelled the same way.
This^^^. I fortunately have an extremely uncommon last name (everyone with the same last name here in the States is a close relative, and everyone back in Sicily with it can be traced back to a common ancestor). I have never been delayed and I don’t think it’s ever taken more than 15 minutes to get my clearance. I pity the poor Smiths and Johnsons of the world.
 
Nearly half of US states offer NICS-exempt licenses, either as a feature of the regular license or on an "enhanced" LTC.

I also get delayed every time (since 1998). A guy at the gun shop asked me if I had a government security clearance, I said yes, and he said that's why
NICS has no visibility or link into active or expired clearance. There is speculation that some database accessible to NICS may have a flag set during initial or re-investigation.
 
Where the heck did this gun show jerky seller having a clearance results in a delay malarkey start.

The systems have nothing to do with each other and nothing within the clearance investigation and adjudication process goes outside the the organization(DOD, other gov agencies, or civilian) paying for the investigation and the organization conducting the investigation.

Nobody cares if you have a clearance. I can get an 18 year old kid and get him a TS-SCI and it isn't difficult.
 
Oh, will there be abuses? Of course.

But how else is the government supposed to “catch” people who try to buy firearms while being PPs? We’re constantly bitching on here about enforcing existing laws before making new ones. This is an attempt to do that.

You can’t be in favor of tracking down PPs who attempt to buy while providing no way to track them down…
What percentage of all BGCs result in the denial of someone who is an actual PP? Given the glaring failures of the system contributing to mass shootings, it sounds like we're trampling the rights of the many to keep a few criminals from buying guns through lawful channels of commerce. Isn't this an egregious example of interest balancing -- the inconvenience to the law-abiding is thought to be minimal when balanced against the goal of thwarting the few criminals who attempt to buy guns through lawful commerce?

Let's do it the simple way. Ditch the BGCs and if a PP is caught in possession of a firearm, the sentence should be harsh and not plea bargained down to a lesser charge. If the PP uses the firearm in the commission of a crime, double the sentence. Problem solved.
 
What percentage of all BGCs result in the denial of someone who is an actual PP? Given the glaring failures of the system contributing to mass shootings, it sounds like we're trampling the rights of the many to keep a few criminals from buying guns through lawful channels of commerce. Isn't this an egregious example of interest balancing -- the inconvenience to the law-abiding is thought to be minimal when balanced against the goal of thwarting the few criminals who attempt to buy guns through lawful commerce?

Let's do it the simple way. Ditch the BGCs and if a PP is caught in possession of a firearm, the sentence should be harsh and not plea bargained down to a lesser charge. If the PP uses the firearm in the commission of a crime, double the sentence. Problem solved.

It's really hard to say since not everyone who gets denied in error even appeals it. Appeals that do occur do not necessarily get the correct determination. Some people just give up, probably go private sale or straw purchase then live their lives. And some people go fix what is causing the error, then simply start buying guns without ever filing an appeal too. A friend of mine was denied due to a non prohibiting DUI arrest and pending case (ie is only a 1 year crime in the state), once he was convicted he recieved a proceed (if that has any logic to it :) ).

But here you see some discussion on statistics, lies and dirty lies etc..

 
This is why I only buy my guns out of the back of vans.
I'm kidding Maura.
Got you all aflutter there for a second though didn't I ?
 
Haven't you heard.
All the guns come in from non commie states in car trunks and the backs of vans and handed out to children in the back alley.

I actually wonder too, what games they play when they cite that info.

For instance guns come into MA all the time that originated from a NH FFL, legally, various ways. A MA resident can come to NH and buy shotguns/rifles directly, same as they do in MA - probably is even common. Pistols gotta go to a MA FFL but still are gonna show up as originating in NH if someone wants to word it deceivingly - and you can bet they do.
 
Suitability Commrade: "Have you ever been delayed or denied after submittting aa 4473 for a firearm purchas?"

Patriot: " Why yes, I'm constantly facing delays."

Suitability Commrade: " I see, you must be on the bad list, therefore I deem you unsuitable for an LTC."
 
This is why I only buy my guns out of the back of vans.
I'm kidding Maura.
Got you all aflutter there for a second though didn't I ?

You never bought a gun from the back of a van or a car trunk?

Nothing illegal there.

Dunkin doesn't know it but their parking lots are the most popular gun stores in Massachsetts
 
I’m stuck on the “address” part. You put your address on the 4473 and the FFL checks and often photocopies your DL. But NICS doesn’t use your address as part of the initial verification, as I understand.

While people move and addresses change, an address match can be a positive confirmation or eliminating a false denial for same/similar name & DOB error, even if not a reason for denial if not matched.

Why are addresses not used in the initial NICS? Same with SSNs - not used, I understand.

The manta has been, better ten guilty men go free rather than one innocent men be put in prison. NICS is more like, better 10 innocent men be denied firearms rather than one guilty man be allowed to buy firearms. The options for a wrongly jailed man are nearly zero, with plea bargaining the predominant methods of jailing men. The options to obtain a gun without a NICS check are minimal only for honest, law-abiding men, with 90%+ of prohibited person obtaining guns by illicit means.
 
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I’m stuck on the “address” part. You put your address on the 4473 and the FFL checks and often photocopies your DL. But NICS doesn’t use your address as part of the initial verification, as I understand. While people move and addresses change, an address match can be a positive confirmation or eliminating a false denial for same/similar name & DOB error, even if not a reason for denial if not matched.
Why are addresses not used in the initial NICS? Same with SSNs - not used, I understand.
Your FFL will input/read the SSN to NICS if you provide it on the 4473. The SSN wasn't part of the original Brady law, but was added as an optional element in the final rulemaking. I never provide my SSN on any form where it is optional.
 
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ATF: Where can I plug in my laptop and scanner, so I can make copies of your book?
FFL: Remind me where it says I have to provide you with electricity? Maybe you should have brought your own generator. [devil]
 
Bought a pistol on Tuesday and it got delayed, today is the third full business day. The LGS told me under the Brady Law I can pick it up on the 23rd if they don't hear back. If I'm reading this thread correctly that's BS. The first time I got delayed was after my case dismissal 4 years ago but it went through the next day. What now...?
 
Bought a pistol on Tuesday and it got delayed, today is the third full business day. The LGS told me under the Brady Law I can pick it up on the 23rd if they don't hear back. If I'm reading this thread correctly that's BS. The first time I got delayed was after my case dismissal 4 years ago but it went through the next day. What now...?

It goes by the FFLs "business days". So potentially your FFL is closed weekends, or interprets it strangely, but that isn't outlandish...

Some FFL's, either because they are big corporations with "safety minded" policies, or for a small guy because they feel they got burned with a denial after a default proceed somehow (ie such covered by the news), may have their own way of doing it that might include a buffer of additional time, if you are a regular customer, or not transferring without an actual non-default proceed.

Usually you do not pay until you can take the gun, so if you dislike a policy or wait you can just walk. Some folks walk upon the inconvenience of a delay. Any FFL should refund you with no BS up until they complete the transfer.

I'd guess most likely they are being stupid at NICs and hungup over that charge, investigating, and hopefully they realize and just proceed you - but no way to know what the hell they are up to.

Add: they have your address now, hide your dogs.
 
So this change isn't effect yet? Yes I paid in full.

The Consolidated Appropriations Act of 2022 (hereinafter “Act”) was signed into law on
March 15, 2022. Section 1101 of the Act included the “NICS Denial Notification Act of 2022.” The Act requires the Attorney General to report background check denials to state authorities and will require the FBI Criminal Justice Information Services Division’s National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) Section to report all FBI NICS denied transactions to local law enforcement within 24 hours beginning October 1, 2022. The NICS Section plans to implement this change on September 26, 2022.
 
So this change isn't effect yet? Yes I paid in full.

The Consolidated Appropriations Act of 2022 (hereinafter “Act”) was signed into law on
March 15, 2022. Section 1101 of the Act included the “NICS Denial Notification Act of 2022.” The Act requires the Attorney General to report background check denials to state authorities and will require the FBI Criminal Justice Information Services Division’s National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) Section to report all FBI NICS denied transactions to local law enforcement within 24 hours beginning October 1, 2022. The NICS Section plans to implement this change on September 26, 2022.
Just to be clear, you've been delayed not denied. And as @teamRR said, you need to count the FFL's business days, not calendar days. Also, the FFL should not have been required to provide your address to get the status of the check. That is supposed to come into effect September 26, 2022. So right now you've been delayed. After three business days (meaning days the FFL is open for business) the FFL can release the gun to you at their discretion. If the FFL says you can pick it up on the 23rd, just go and pick it up on the 23rd. You'll either have a proceed or the FFL has indicated he will go ahead and complete the transfer without one (as long as the delay doesn't become a denial).
 
ATF Open letter to Massachusetts FFL's....which seems to be current?
  1. HavethetransfereecompleteandsignATFForm4473,FirearmsTransaction Record.
  2. VerifytheidentityofthetransfereethroughaGovernment-issuedphoto identification (for example, a driver’s license).
  3. ContactNICS.Youwillgeteithera“proceed,”“denied”or“delayed”response from the system. If you get a “delayed” response and there is no additional response from the system, you may transfer the firearm after three business days have elapsed. Of course, you must still comply with any waiting period requirements under State law.
  4. IfyouhaveinitiatedaNICScheckforaproposedfirearmstransaction,butthe transfer of the firearm is not completed, you must retain the Form 4473 in your records for a period of not less than 5 years. If the transfer is completed, the Form 4473 must be retained for at least 20 years.
 
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