NICS and how they treat medical marijuana users .... beware !!!

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I was doing some research on the data that the NICS system uses to deny a person ... thought you Mass people may find this interesting now that you have some new "freedoms" in your state.

Note:This info was taken from a power point presentation on data in the NICS database.... and it is applicable to ALL states!


Illegal Controlled Substance Use Records Available in III
•Arrests for use or possession of a controlled substance within the past year
•Multiple arrests for use or possession of a controlled substance within the past five (5) years if the most recent arrest occurred within the past year
•Convictions for use or possession of a controlled substance within the past year (regardless of offense type)
•Convictions for possession of drug paraphernalia within the past year


•Persons who test positive for use of a controlled substance within the past year


•Persons who admit to the use of a controlled substance within the past year


–Includes persons in states where recreational or medical marijuana use is considered legal


Persons in possession of a medical marijuana card to include one year after the expiration


This last one is especially troubling to me.....

The way that its worded it seems to imply that someone, somewhere, some how is sending information on users of medical marijuana and reporting/place their names into the NICS III database! Not only their names but info on when the card is expired!
I thought medical records were confidential!

Guess not to the State or Feds!
 
Disclosure is permitted when required by law -- federal, tribal, state or local

The way that its worded it seems to imply that someone, somewhere, some how is sending information on users of medical marijuana and reporting/place their names into the NICS III database! Not only their names but info on when the card is expired!I thought medical records were confidential!
What lead you to believe medical records were confidential against the gov't? tons of PHI is disclosed to government, HIPAA specifically allows this.
 
The question on 4473 federal form is
Straight forward.
Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?
Warning: The use or possession of marijuana remains unlawful under Federal law regardless of whether it has been legalized or decriminalized for medicinal or recreational purposes in the state where you reside

So if u are a medical marijuana user and say yes you are denied

if u are a medical marijuana user and say no tech you committed a crime by lying on a federal form
 
Medical records and claims data are not confidential. They get shared all over the place, both among government and private entities. HIPAA is not what people think it is.
 
it is Obama's last F.U. to all of us old folks. No medical MJ for us. with a simple use of his pen, he could have fixed this whole problem with federal law misclassifying MJ, but was to lazy to even try.
 
I also would not expect to see Pres. Trump or current congress do a dang thing about pot either.
If anything Pres. Trump might just keep his "law and order" train going and come after the pot growers in the states.
 
When's the last time you refused to give you SSN to a medical provider?

EVERY TIME!! I've even had to meet with hospital administrators over this many years ago.


Medical records and claims data are not confidential. They get shared all over the place, both among government and private entities. HIPAA is not what people think it is.

Exactly! Too many believe that nobody has access to the info. Centralizing/computerizing all the records as now required by law, guarantees that our info will be mis-used, hacked, etc.


I also would not expect to see Pres. Trump or current congress do a dang thing about pot either.
If anything Pres. Trump might just keep his "law and order" train going and come after the pot growers in the states.

To resolve this mess, it might require the issue to come to a head with the Feds busting this and some legistraitors finally taking notice that they MUST do something to resolve the differences between the Fed and state laws.
 
Medical records and claims data are not confidential. They get shared all over the place, both among government and private entities. HIPAA is not what people think it is.

^this
HIPAA is a gag order on physicians and medical professionals. it's designed so that government can mistreat and coerce doctors into doing their bidding without doctors having recourse. rather comical that the medical community welcomed it with open arms.
 
it is Obama's last F.U. to all of us old folks. No medical MJ for us. with a simple use of his pen, he could have fixed this whole problem with federal law misclassifying MJ, but was to lazy to even try.

If obummer was really black, he would have fixed the MJ laws.....
 
Medical records and claims data are not confidential. They get shared all over the place, both among government and private entities. HIPAA is not what people think it is.
HIPPA contains a root password - "national security"
 
To resolve this mess, it might require the issue to come to a head with the Feds busting this and some legistraitors finally taking notice that they MUST do something to resolve the differences between the Fed and state laws.

"Small government" and federalism, my left big toe. [angry]

What we really need is an act of Congress making MJ legal. At this point I'd accept demotion of MJ from Schedule I to Schedule II so that medical use of it was lawful with an appropriate prescription, at least as a first step.

Unfortunately case law on this consists of Wickard v. Filburn and Gonzales v. Raich. Raich was basically the same case as Filburn with marijuana in place of wheat. What we really need is for SCOTUS to overturn Filburn or at least place substantial limits on it.

Wickard v. Filburn, for those not familiar, is the New Deal era case that allowed the Feds to regulate damn near anything they pleased by tying it, however tenuously, to interstate commerce. Only once has a law ever been thrown out because the link to interstate commerce was too far removed to count, and that was U.S. v. Lopez, which invalidated the first attempt at the federal Gun Free School Zones Act. Filburn was decided in the face of FDR's threat to pack the court until he started getting decisions he liked.
 
I was doing some research on the data that the NICS system uses to deny a person ... thought you Mass people may find this interesting now that you have some new "freedoms" in your state.

Note:This info was taken from a power point presentation on data in the NICS database.... and it is applicable to ALL states!


Illegal Controlled Substance Use Records Available in III
•Arrests for use or possession of a controlled substance within the past year
•Multiple arrests for use or possession of a controlled substance within the past five (5) years if the most recent arrest occurred within the past year
•Convictions for use or possession of a controlled substance within the past year (regardless of offense type)
•Convictions for possession of drug paraphernalia within the past year


•Persons who test positive for use of a controlled substance within the past year


•Persons who admit to the use of a controlled substance within the past year


–Includes persons in states where recreational or medical marijuana use is considered legal


Persons in possession of a medical marijuana card to include one year after the expiration


This last one is especially troubling to me.....

The way that its worded it seems to imply that someone, somewhere, some how is sending information on users of medical marijuana and reporting/place their names into the NICS III database! Not only their names but info on when the card is expired!
I thought medical records were confidential!

Guess not to the State or Feds!



SO, do you have a link to this powerpoint of which you speak?
 
The question on 4473 federal form is
Straight forward.
Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?
Warning: The use or possession of marijuana remains unlawful under Federal law regardless of whether it has been legalized or decriminalized for medicinal or recreational purposes in the state where you reside

So if u are a medical marijuana user and say yes you are denied

if u are a medical marijuana user and say no tech you committed a crime by lying on a federal form

Is it really straightforward?

For starters, ATF says anyone with a medical marijuana card is prohibited -- even if they have never used. If some states, caretakers or growers must have the card, and some are even prohibited from using. That guidance to dealers clearly goes outside the law.

Second, since marijuana is not addictive in any real sense of the word, no one fails the test on that point.

Third, "Are you an unlawful user of...?" is present tense. If the spliff ain't hanging from your lips as you fill out the 4473, the correct answer is "no" -- as in, "No, I quit using last night."

Fourth and most important but largely overlooked: the question doesn't just apply to illegal drugs. Millions of people are addicted to "any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance", and they have valid prescriptions they renew every month, then fill at their local pharmacy. All those relying on vicodin and ritalin are more clearly prohibited than someone who occasionally uses marijuana.

But as they say: don't be the test case.
 
^this
HIPAA is a gag order on physicians and medical professionals.

It is, but it goes far beyond just healthcare providers. I work for a major grocery chain, and every employee has to sign a HIPAA statement, because in the course of their jobs they may come across someone's protected healthcare information (customer has a medical incident in the store, for instance). We have to file reports on such things, so we "maintain a system of records" -- talking about it without a waiver could get the company sued, along with the employee individually.
 
i am addicted, seriously, to strawberry shortcake and ben and jerries caramel swirl. Am i prohibited too?
 
I took the ATF NICS training many years ago, and the ATF slide show included "On Secret Service watch list" as a reason for a NICS denial. I wish I had thought to ask where the statutory basis for such a denial came from. In any case, they get to make up their own rules using the law as sort of a general guideline.
 
I was doing some research on the data that the NICS system uses to deny a person ... thought you Mass people may find this interesting now that you have some new "freedoms" in your state.

Note:This info was taken from a power point presentation on data in the NICS database.... and it is applicable to ALL states!


Illegal Controlled Substance Use Records Available in III
•Arrests for use or possession of a controlled substance within the past year
•Multiple arrests for use or possession of a controlled substance within the past five (5) years if the most recent arrest occurred within the past year
•Convictions for use or possession of a controlled substance within the past year (regardless of offense type)
•Convictions for possession of drug paraphernalia within the past year


•Persons who test positive for use of a controlled substance within the past year


•Persons who admit to the use of a controlled substance within the past year


–Includes persons in states where recreational or medical marijuana use is considered legal


Persons in possession of a medical marijuana card to include one year after the expiration


This last one is especially troubling to me.....

The way that its worded it seems to imply that someone, somewhere, some how is sending information on users of medical marijuana and reporting/place their names into the NICS III database! Not only their names but info on when the card is expired!
I thought medical records were confidential!

Guess not to the State or Feds!

What about holders of CDL drivers licenses that are subject to random drug testing, is a failure reported to NICS, thus causing a purchase denial for a year ???

No, I'm not concerned about this for myself, but there are literally millions of CDL holders out there, and I'm sure more than a few of them are gun owners, and it's likely that some even smoke weed under extreme social pressure.
 
When's the last time you refused to give you SSN to a medical provider?
When? A couple of months ago. I give them a fake one. Wife does same. Why would I want to set myself up for identity theft? I know of someone it happed to. Made her life miserable for about three years. Medical providers are constantly having security breaches. Why take the chance?
 
When? A couple of months ago. I give them a fake one. Wife does same. Why would I want to set myself up for identity theft? I know of someone it happed to. Made her life miserable for about three years. Medical providers are constantly having security breaches. Why take the chance?
You'll have to give that up when you reach Medicare age. Your medicare # is your SS# with a letter (or maybe two) after it.
 
You'll have to give that up when you reach Medicare age. Your medicare # is your SS# with a letter (or maybe two) after it.
That is no longer true. In 2015, Obama signed off on legislation which banned the practice of using SSNs on Medicare cards. The OIG (Office of Inspector General) discovered massive fraud and pushed this legislation forward. Medicare account numbers are random, like driver license numbers and firearm license numbers. That fellow who posted above, Len2A Training, is right: NEVER give out a SSN to health care practitioners under any circumstances! Len2A Training argued with them and refused. I just went along to get along and gave them a fake one.
 
That is no longer true. In 2015, Obama signed off on legislation which banned the practice of using SSNs on Medicare cards. The OIG (Office of Inspector General) discovered massive fraud and pushed this legislation forward. Medicare account numbers are random, like driver license numbers and firearm license numbers. That fellow who posted above, Len2A Training, is right: NEVER give out a SSN to health care practitioners under any circumstances! Len2A Training argued with them and refused. I just went along to get along and gave them a fake one.

Well, not yet. I just called Medicare and was told that not until 2018 can people request random Medicare numbers instead of SSN. So plenty of time for identity thieves to ply their trade with a 3 year lead time. [angry]
 
When's the last time you refused to give you SSN to a medical provider?

EVERY TIME!! I've even had to meet with hospital administrators over this many years ago. ....................

I have never given them my SSN. I leave the space blank.
When the Social Security system was put in place it specifically stated it was not to be used for identification. I have never been questioned.
 
I've read a ton of posts that involve smoking pot and the real possibility that doing so will get you denied regardless if you live in an area that allows consumption and possession. I understand the situation. I have a question, however.

If you go to the doctor and he prescribes you a medicine that you ingest like a pill, or slap on your arm as a transdermal patch, or consume as a liquid directly or diluted in a drink: (All ways that many many pharmaceuticals are consumed) how would that be answered on the 4473. Seems like the NICS questions are being aimed at recreational or medical users getting high. There is no question on that 4473 that asks for common uniform medical scripts, even for the hard-core pain relievers.

I am NOT a believer in smoking pot for medical purposes. There is NOT ONE other drug out there that MUST BE SMOKED. Lobbying for smoking pot flies in the face of the government spending milllions upon millions of our tax dollars trying to dissuade the population from smoking, period. HOWEVER.......pot can be consumed in the forms I've mentioned above including pills, I believe. The efficacy may not be as instantaneous or as strong but it does work effectively enough to be prescribed, especially to kids.

The question is, then, if you take a pill or drink a drink or anything traditional, would you have to answer that question yes or no? Am I missing something here?
 
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