Nh resident transporting firearms to ma range?

[Roscoe]

A friend and I wanted to go shooting at Harvard sportsmans club. He is a new Hampshire resident but was concerned about the legalities of driving and using in ma.

Does he need some special license to transport his guns to the range in his car and use them on the range in Ma?

Thanks

 

[Rob Boudrie]

He needs a non-resident license unless he is a US resident licensed in a state that does not issue licenses to drug users or felons and is in MA for the purpose of attending a competition or gun show. There is no "general purpose" exemption for recreational shooting.

 

[Len-2A Training]

He needs a non-resident license unless he is a US resident licensed in a state that does not issue licenses to drug users or felons and is in MA for the purpose of attending a competition or gun show. There is no "general purpose" exemption for recreational shooting.

Correction: This is correct for handguns and "large capacity" long guns/mags. Low capacity long guns can indeed be brought into MA to "just shoot" with friends at a range, etc. w/o having a MA NR LTC.

BTW: According to FRB, there are NO states that meet the exemption quoted above by Rob! I haven't checked every state, but do know that all the states that I'm aware of allow minor misdemeanors for pot to (usually after x years) get their licenses. MA NEVER FORGIVES anything.

 

[fencer]

Can the OP meet his friend over the border, transfer the firearms to his vehicle and drive to Harvard?

 

[Roscoe]

Can the OP meet his friend over the border, transfer the firearms to his vehicle and drive to Harvard?

This is what we are going to do next time... I'll just go pick him up, and transport all the weapons under my care in my car.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Correction: This is correct for handguns and "large capacity" long guns/mags. Low capacity long guns can indeed be brought into MA to "just shoot" with friends at a range, etc. w/o having a MA NR LTC.

Thanks for the correction, though a "low profile" (ie, getting lost in a crowd of one) would still be advisable.

You will encounter commercial ranges that tell you that you're "OK as long as you are going to a range with a handgun". They are wrong.

 

[mx250man]

Can the OP meet his friend over the border, transfer the firearms to his vehicle and drive to Harvard?

Other's may chime in with more accurate info, but I believe this may be a violation of federal law. See Title 18, chapter 44, section 922, a, 3. There are various exceptions, but based on what you have said they probably don't apply.

http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf

§ 922 Unlawful acts.

(a) It shall be unlawful—

...


(3) for any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State ...

 

[Roscoe]

Other's may chime in with more accurate info, but I believe this may be a violation of federal law. See Title 18, chapter 44, section 922, a, 3. There are various exceptions, but based on what you have said they probably don't apply.

http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf

§ 922 Unlawful acts.

(a) It shall be unlawful—

...


(3) for any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State ...

Well I'm looking at purchasing one of them so I'd like to try them out. Far as I'm concerned I'm just borrowing them for a few hours with the owner in the car. I don't see how that's a problem.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Well I'm looking at purchasing one of them so I'd like to try them out. Far as I'm concerned I'm just borrowing them for a few hours with the owner in the car. I don't see how that's a problem.

It is NOT a problem, carry on.

 

[mx250man]

It is NOT a problem, carry on.

Just curios, is this statement based on your belief that he'd never got caught and prosecuted, or because you believe it isn't against federal law?

 

[Roscoe]

I'm pretty sure it's legal to borrow a gun from someone. In which case the transport is occurring under my LTC.

 

[appraiser]

you can loan a gun across a state line for "legitimate sporting purposes" which to me means no concealed carry if it is a handgun.

You'd have to get really jammed up with the po-po for the feds to get involved to prosecute it.

 

[mx250man]

I'm pretty sure it's legal to borrow a gun from someone. In which case the transport is occurring under my LTC.

Yes, but if the transport is across state lines, it is federal jurisdiction and the federal laws apply. My understanding is that if you are asserting that you are possessing said firearms as you cross the state lines (in order to comply with the MA law that was previously discussed that would prohibit the NH resident from possessing them in MA), then you are in violation of federal law which only allows legally bringing firearms obtained from out of state into your home state in certain circumstances. I have interest in this subject as I am an FFL holder, which I obtained to legally address issues very much like this one.

If you went to NH and shot the guns, no issue. Also, if the firearm that you are thinking of buying isn't on the approved roster in MA, you can't legally bring it into MA it unless you posses an FFL. This is because in order to bring it into your possession in MA, federal law requires an FFL in MA to receive it, but they can't transfer it to you unless it is on the approved roster. When you really dig into the details, MA law, when combined with federal laws, has really put the screws to one what can legally do.

 

[mx250man]

you can loan a gun across a state line for "legitimate sporting purposes" which to me means no concealed carry if it is a handgun.

Can you give me a reference to the federal law that exempts that use? I'm not being a dick - I've looked in the past for this exact exemption and wasn't able to find it. Please let me know - thanks!

 

[Roscoe]

So as a mass resident and LTC holder your telling me that if I go to a range in Nh I'm breaking the law ? Or if I go to a RI USPSA match I'm in violation of federal law ? What about dc residents shooting in va because there aren't ranges in DC ?

Eh I'm pretty sure I'm good to go transporting them myself.

 

[appraiser]

I've posted it before, I'll try to find it in the morning, but I am pretty confident that the federal law reads no loans across state lines except for sporting use.

The problem isn't the Feds as much as it is MA and their BS laws, including no long arm or ammo sales to out of state residents, permitted or not.

 

[30Mauser]

Other's may chime in with more accurate info, but I believe this may be a violation of federal law. See Title 18, chapter 44, section 922, a, 3. There are various exceptions, but based on what you have said they probably don't apply.

http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf

§ 922 Unlawful acts.

(a) It shall be unlawful—

...


(3) for any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State ...

What fencer describes is legal and this is why: the OP drives to NH and picks up the friend and THE FRIEND's GUNS to give them a ride into MA. He is not "purchasing or otherwise obtaining" the firearms as they are still the property of the friend. Once they cross the border into MA, the OP is the holder of an LTC who is entitled as such to be in possession of firearms pursuant to all the usual MA regulations. The guns are not "illegally transferred across state lines" per federal regulations, and are not "in the possession of an unlicensed person" per MA regulations.

Besides, LenS says so.

 

[appraiser]

Sec. 922. Unlawful acts
(a) It shall be unlawful - (1) for any person - (A) except a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer, to engage in the business of importing, manufacturing, or dealing in firearms, or in the course of such business to ship, transport, or receive any firearm in interstate or foreign commerce; or (B) except a licensed importer or licensed manufacturer, to engage in the business of importing or manufacturing ammunition, or in the course of such business, to ship, transport, or receive any ammunition in interstate or foreign commerce; (2) for any importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector licensed under the provisions of this chapter to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm to any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, except that - (A) this paragraph and subsection (b)(3) shall not be held to preclude a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector from returning a firearm or replacement firearm of the same kind and type to a person from whom it was received; and this paragraph shall not be held to preclude an individual from mailing a firearm owned in compliance with Federal, State, and local law to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector; (B) this paragraph shall not be held to preclude a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer from depositing a firearm for conveyance in the mails to any officer, employee, agent, or watchman who, pursuant to the provisions of section 1715 of this title, is eligible to receive through the mails pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person, for use in connection with his official duty; and (C) nothing in this paragraph shall be construed as applying in any manner in the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, or any possession of the United States differently than it would apply if the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, or the possession were in fact a State of the United States; (3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State, (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter; (4) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, to transport in interstate or foreign commerce any destructive device, machinegun (as defined in section 5845 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986), short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle, except as specifically authorized by the Attorney General consistent with public safety and necessity; (5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and (B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

 

[mx250man]

What fencer describes is legal and this is why: the OP drives to NH and picks up the friend and THE FRIEND's GUNS to give them a ride into MA. He is not "purchasing or otherwise obtaining" the firearms as they are still the property of the friend. Once they cross the border into MA, the OP is the holder of an LTC who is entitled as such to be in possession of firearms pursuant to all the usual MA regulations. The guns are not "illegally transferred across state lines" per federal regulations, and are not "in the possession of an unlicensed person" per MA regulations.

Besides, LenS says so.

So here is the issue that I have run into, in this case, how can one say that when they enter MA that they are in "possession" of the particular firearm, but without "obtaining" it (in this case out of state)? Seems to me that in order to "possess" this firearm you must first have "obtained" it. Unless you want to start to argue what "is" is.

 

[mx250man]

Sec. 922. Unlawful acts
(a) It shall be unlawful - (1) for any person - (A) except a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer, to engage in the business of importing, manufacturing, or dealing in firearms, or in the course of such business to ship, transport, or receive any firearm in interstate or foreign commerce; or (B) except a licensed importer or licensed manufacturer, to engage in the business of importing or manufacturing ammunition, or in the course of such business, to ship, transport, or receive any ammunition in interstate or foreign commerce; (2) for any importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector licensed under the provisions of this chapter to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm to any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, except that - (A) this paragraph and subsection (b)(3) shall not be held to preclude a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector from returning a firearm or replacement firearm of the same kind and type to a person from whom it was received; and this paragraph shall not be held to preclude an individual from mailing a firearm owned in compliance with Federal, State, and local law to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector; (B) this paragraph shall not be held to preclude a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer from depositing a firearm for conveyance in the mails to any officer, employee, agent, or watchman who, pursuant to the provisions of section 1715 of this title, is eligible to receive through the mails pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person, for use in connection with his official duty; and (C) nothing in this paragraph shall be construed as applying in any manner in the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, or any possession of the United States differently than it would apply if the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, or the possession were in fact a State of the United States; (3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State, (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter; (4) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, to transport in interstate or foreign commerce any destructive device, machinegun (as defined in section 5845 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986), short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle, except as specifically authorized by the Attorney General consistent with public safety and necessity; (5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and (B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

My understanding is that means that for the NH resident who loaned the firearm to the MA resident, they aren't violating the law. That does't exempt the MA recipient of the loan from violating paragraph 3 if they bring it into MA. So, NH guy loans a firearm to MA guy who uses said firearm in NH, no problem for anyone. But if said MA guy brings it into MA, MA guy now in violation of paragraph 3 and federal law, NH guy still no problem. There are some cases where NH guy who transfers firearm to MA guy can also be in violation of the law. Not this one.

 

[30Mauser]

So here is the issue that I have run into, in this case, how can one say that when they enter MA that they are in "possession" of the particular firearm, but without "obtaining" it (in this case out of state)? Seems to me that in order to "possess" this firearm you must first have "obtained" it. Unless you want to start to argue what "is" is.

This is why we have lawyers, courts and reams and reams of unintelligible laws written by imbeciles who aren't smarter than a 5th grader. The whole world of "who legally possesses what in a vehicle" is murky.

I'm getting a headache just thinking about the stupidity of why this is even an issue (not your fault, just so stupid to even have to worry about this)

Non-lawyer answer: Just do it and obey all the traffic laws that day.

 

[bostonasphalt2]

So here is the issue that I have run into, in this case, how can one say that when they enter MA that they are in "possession" of the particular firearm, but without "obtaining" it (in this case out of state)? Seems to me that in order to "possess" this firearm you must first have "obtained" it. Unless you want to start to argue what "is" is.

If he is meeting his friend at the border, he is obtaining it out of state. You're the one arguing what the definition of "is" is, not them.

 

[bandaid bandit]

I apologize if I am repeating what someone already said, but it looks like there is one minor technical issue. A quick perusal shows that after every instance referring to transporting or possessing, it mentions "in interstate or foreign commerce." So it seems to my caffeine deprived paranoid non lawyer mind, OP should be good to go re: fed law so long as no money changes hands (offering gas money for the trip).

 

[bandaid bandit]

Not going to attempt to guess on mass law. Should be fine, but even do, I'm sure Marsha and her flying monkeys will "find" some law they have broken. Either way, sounds like its a time to make damn sure that you are driving at or under the speed limit, and that you have no "broken tail lights".