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NH resident, have p&r, how do I legally transport firearms to MA ranges, without fltc
- Thread starter Dalym1985
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MachineHead
NES Member
MA non-resident LTC will fix that problem right quick.
You can't unless you are going to a match, meeting, or hunting.
Chapter 140, Section 131G Carrying of Firearms by Non-Residents (this is the MA law that applies.
Any person who is not a resident of the Commonwealth may carry a pistol or revolver in or through the commonwealth for the following purpose of taking part in a pistol or revolver competition or attending any meeting or exhibition of any organized group of firearms collectors or hunting; provided, however, that such a person is a resident of the United States, and has a permit or license to carry firearms issued under the laws of any state, district or territory thereof which has licensing requirements which prohibit the issuance of permits or licenses to persons who have been convicted of a felony or who have been convicted of the unlawful use, possession or sale of narcotic or harmful drugs; provided, further, that in the case of a person traveling in or through the commonwealth or by the state of his destination.
Chapter 140, Section 131G Carrying of Firearms by Non-Residents (this is the MA law that applies.
Any person who is not a resident of the Commonwealth may carry a pistol or revolver in or through the commonwealth for the following purpose of taking part in a pistol or revolver competition or attending any meeting or exhibition of any organized group of firearms collectors or hunting; provided, however, that such a person is a resident of the United States, and has a permit or license to carry firearms issued under the laws of any state, district or territory thereof which has licensing requirements which prohibit the issuance of permits or licenses to persons who have been convicted of a felony or who have been convicted of the unlawful use, possession or sale of narcotic or harmful drugs; provided, further, that in the case of a person traveling in or through the commonwealth or by the state of his destination.
Would going to a shooting range where people are, be considered meeting them?
I also heard rifles as long as they're stowed in a case, are legal to carry, without a non resident ltc.
How reliably can one get a non resident ltc, vs those who live in the state and apply for an LTC with their local chief?
I also heard rifles as long as they're stowed in a case, are legal to carry, without a non resident ltc.
How reliably can one get a non resident ltc, vs those who live in the state and apply for an LTC with their local chief?
My understanding is that they are often restricted to target/sporting unless you've got some other reason, but I've never had to apply for one so I can't say. Although I'm sure others have better info.
You might be correct on the long guns part, too, my previous comments were strictly for handguns.
You'll be issued a restricted to sport/ hunting most likely unless you give a really really really good reason for unrestricted. You will get it, but it'll take 5-6 months from mailing it in to getting it back in the mail. $100 every year and you have to go to Chelsea every year for an "interview" unfortunately.
Most of the complicated stuff above applies to handguns. The MA rules for "low capacity" FID-allowable long guns aren't nearly as insane.
See the exemption in Chapter 140 Section 129:
The above exemptions apply to the same sort of long guns that a FID-holder would be allowed, for details on this, see [thread=95897]the old thread on the topic[/thread].C140;S129C said:
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True but not anything close to "quick"!
NONE of the above is true. That is a bogus exemption, NO state license meets the requirements. Do a search (in the correct sub-forum) as I've given the long version numerous times. I also spend considerable time in my MA Gun Law Seminar making this point very clear. As otherwise people are exposing themselves to a felony conviction in MA.
The "original legal beagle" was Atty. Jason Guida, as Director of the Firerams Records Bureau (and it is NOT just pistols either). I just explain it as he did to me. Most folks don't understand it and get it wrong . . . and I'll admit that I was one of them until Jason "showed me the light"!
I pulled that right off the GOAL web page, if it is incorrect, they need to take it off, but I don't follow how this is a bogus exemption. Don't competitive shooters from out of state shoot USPSA matches in MA? I'm confused.
here is MGL https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section131G
Section 131G. Any person who is not a resident of the commonwealth may carry a pistol or revolver in or through the commonwealth for the purpose of taking part in a pistol or revolver competition or attending any meeting or exhibition of any organized group of firearm collectors or for the purpose of hunting; provided, that such person is a resident of the United States and has a permit or license to carry firearms issued under the laws of any state, district or territory thereof which has licensing requirements which prohibit the issuance of permits or licenses to persons who have been convicted of a felony or who have been convicted of the unlawful use, possession or sale of narcotic or harmful drugs; provided, further, that in the case of a person traveling in or through the commonwealth for the purpose of hunting, he has on his person a hunting or sporting license issued by the commonwealth or by the state of his destination. Police officers and other peace officers of any state, territory or jurisdiction within the United States duly authorized to possess firearms by the laws thereof shall, for the purposes of this section, be deemed to have a permit or license to carry firearms as described in this section.
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ProGun
NES Member
I've seen this mentioned at least a few times over the past few years here on NES. I could be wrong, but pretty certain this was brought to their attention to no avail. It looks like they have no intention of taking it down.
Although the law as stated here is correct MGL C140 S131G (https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section131g), do you want to get an ill informed officer who will make a "good faith" arrest because in MA guns are evil unless the government has them? That will reflect in your record & you'll need to fix it which is a pain.
I would recommend getting the non-resident LTC as suggested by others. It will help to keep things smooth when you come across the ill informed officer.
Stay safe,
Brian
I would recommend getting the non-resident LTC as suggested by others. It will help to keep things smooth when you come across the ill informed officer.
Stay safe,
Brian
GOAL has lots of old/bad legal info on their website. They can contact the same "source people" that I do for any clarification they need. Years ago we all believed what you posted (131G) but it simply isn't true as the criteria to meet is NOT met by any state in the US. Certainly not NH.
I'm just not going to get into the details again here, you can search for it, I've posted it many times but I'm tired and just not interested in spending the time going thru it step-by-step.
Yes, people break the law every day in MA. And almost all are lucky and not caught by anyone that really understands the law. Woe be unto the person who does get bagged and I doubt that "GOAL's website said" will go very far in court, any more than a certain commercial range whose employees have told NRs that they have a "special exemption from MSP" for their customers to bring ARs in AW configuration and new large cap mags plus pistols into MA with no NR LTC (and in many cases I'll bet no home state license at all either).
It was at least I went over it step by step with a current GOAL BOD member. But BOD members aren't staff and it is staff that needs to update website pages.
Brian in this case it is the ill informed that saves the day. Rue the day that a sharp LEO or DA wants to make political points and prosecute. Feel free to give Atty Jason Guida a call, he'll be happy to explain it in detail as he did to me.
In a nutshell from Glidden's 4th Edition (2016) Notes (I'll correct a wrong word used below):
Exercise for the reader: Look up your state law or application for a license. If it says "have you EVER been convicted of any drug violation" it might comply with the wording of 131G. If there is a "forgiveness" after x years, it does NOT comply and nobody from that state qualifies under 131G!
The legislators need to write laws a little simpler. It should just state. "Any person who is not a resident of the commonwealth may not carry a pistol or revolver without a non resident LTC." Then they could save time and meet only 3 months out of the year, and go home and stop wasting all of our tax dollars.
It matters not one iota whether the advice here is correct as a misinformed cop will still cost you a bunch. Get something in writing from a prosecutor and carry that with you. Else, stay out of Massachusetts. Consider this, correct or not, it is unlawful to have ammunition or components without an FID which you as a non-resident can't acquire.
Sure, but if you follow this to the logical conclusion, then the only solution is to refuse to travel to MA, to have any nexus with MA at all.
Any ammunition, or pistol ammunition?
What about the "Possession of rifles and shotguns and ammunition therefor by nonresident..." in 129C (f)(g)(h)? (see my detailed quote in reply #12)
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That would be any ammunition. A Mass. resident must have a valid FID to purchase rifle or shotgun ammunition. I as a N.H. resident can't acquire either in Mass., no FID or provision to get one. I can only imagine that handgun ammunition is more restrictive. About 30 years ago, I traveled to Reading to shoot in a rifle match so there are provisions to cross the border with firearms and ammunition. But were you to get stopped, totally innocent of violating laws, the potential of financial and emotional distress are still a possibility.
Having worked in Mass. for many years, I was always scared spitless there would be a stray round or two in the car. I will never voluntarily step foot in Mass. now that I'm retired.
Having worked in Mass. for many years, I was always scared spitless there would be a stray round or two in the car. I will never voluntarily step foot in Mass. now that I'm retired.
What about C140;S129C, which exempts "Possession of rifles and shotguns and ammunition therefor by nonresidents traveling in or through the commonwealth, providing that any rifles or shotguns are unloaded and enclosed in a case; " Obviously only applies to non-high-capacity, non-AWB long arms.
Kevin, everything you're citing is undoubtedly correct if interpretation is set in stone. Most likely I'd never see jail time or fines even if I was clearly in the wrong as who in their right mind would sentence you over an errant round or box of 9MM. Or a post ban Glock magazine. Or an AR, locked in a box and loaded 30 round magazine locked separately. The devil's in the details. Do you want to risk it? Even were you to beat the charge in court are you prepared to spend the time and money to do so?
Just look at how many posts here from Mass. residents wondering what they can or cannot do. If a non-resident were to insist on projecting their 2nd amendment rights for a competition or a family outing or just for fun, they do so at their peril. Get a prosecutor's assurances, in writing to avoid complications to be on the safer side. Do you really want some rookie interpreting law on the spot? Do you really want to gamble that the cop you run across isn't having a bad day and chooses to make your life miserable? And for what? To shoot in the golrious People's Republic?
Just look at how many posts here from Mass. residents wondering what they can or cannot do. If a non-resident were to insist on projecting their 2nd amendment rights for a competition or a family outing or just for fun, they do so at their peril. Get a prosecutor's assurances, in writing to avoid complications to be on the safer side. Do you really want some rookie interpreting law on the spot? Do you really want to gamble that the cop you run across isn't having a bad day and chooses to make your life miserable? And for what? To shoot in the golrious People's Republic?
Chevy 2 65
NES Member
Not quick
Why on God's green earth would you want to bring firearms down to MA? I don't like "being afraid of the man" but I have far too much to lose to bother chancing getting screwed by some overzealous LEO.
Do what you want but personally I wouldn't bother, I've written off the whole state as lost and only go down there when 100% unavoidable.
Do what you want but personally I wouldn't bother, I've written off the whole state as lost and only go down there when 100% unavoidable.
First off you will never get a DA's letter unless you are personal friends with said DA and even then it will be written in wishy-washy English.
Secondly no LEO on the side of the road is going to cease doing what he planned to do because you produce a DA's letter. To think otherwise is laughable.
Ever been in a MA police chief's office and ask him about a MA AG's letter? I have and there were a string of expletives in response about what said AG could do with said letter. It would be no different with a DA's letter. Either the DA or police can press charges and bring them forward in court.
Secondly no LEO on the side of the road is going to cease doing what he planned to do because you produce a DA's letter. To think otherwise is laughable.
Ever been in a MA police chief's office and ask him about a MA AG's letter? I have and there were a string of expletives in response about what said AG could do with said letter. It would be no different with a DA's letter. Either the DA or police can press charges and bring them forward in court.
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sure, maybe you can't get an FID, but you can get a non-res LTC, which covers exactly what we are talking about here....
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typically we do two different things here:
1. Explain what the law actually is;
2. Explain what might happen in a given scenario (lots of theoreticals, obviously)
What you said above is that "it doesn't matter what the law is". Actually, it does. Everyone has their own, individual, risk analysis to complete in any given situation. I am more risk averse than someone else. Someone else might be less risk averse. In that case, even though its legal, I would opt to not do it, but someone else may. This then ties into the term used around here called "massprudence". What that is is basically, what is considered to be a good idea to stay out of trouble, even if the legal limit to something is less restrictive.
But, in the end, it does matter what the law says, because we try to give out the correct information. Whether or not you would still go down that path (entering MA with guns) is an example of massprudence and/or your personal risk aversion level.
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