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NH Non Resident Denied due to MA Restrictions

swesson

swesson

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I just attempted to renew my NH non-resident license and it was denied because of an employment restriction on my MA license. Letter said you must have an unrestricted license from your home state. Mind you this was a renewal and my MA license was always restricted because I live in Woburn. Is this something new? Was a surprise to me. Really time to move out of Woburn now.
 
Contact Pro-Gun NH www.pgnh.org they have dealt with this at least 2x in the past. Someone at NH SP decided to "create law" each time and got his pee-pee slapped each time and things went back to normal.
 
When I applied a year ago the part in bold said "any state." I got my NH with my ME non res. My MA hadn't come in yet.

A copy (front & back) of your valid concealed carry license
issued by the state, county, or town in which you reside.
Click to expand...
 
More reasons why the idea you have to have a license or permit in any state in order to carry is a joke. When the licenses/permits are arbitrary, based on arbitrary criteria, have arbitrary restrictions, and the issuance or denial is arbitrary, it equals nothing but a mess, all in order to prevent people from exercising basic rights. How exactly does the state you live in effect ones ability or inability to carry? Do imaginary borders possess some special powers over people? What a friggin joke.
 
I had no issue getting a NH permit with my MA restricted (also Woburn) permit. Hopefully no issue when I have to renew.
 
Saf-C 2102.03

TLB said:
So much for Free Hampshire....
Click to expand...
[horse]
There's always going to be petty tyrants out there who get in a position of power and try to make and enforce their own rules. The difference is that in a less-than-free state, they get away with it.

Mr. Brownstone said:
When I applied a year ago the part in bold said "any state." I got my NH with my ME non res. My MA hadn't come in yet.
A copy (front & back) of your valid concealed carry license issued by the state, county, or town in which you reside.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
That is a recent change, I started a thread about Saf-C 2102.03 last month, specifically asking if this was going to pose an issue for MA residents with restricted licenses, and was told this situation would never happen.
 
Kevin_NH said:
[horse]
There's always going to be petty tyrants out there who get in a position of power and try to make and enforce their own rules. The difference is that in a less-than-free state, they get away with it.
Click to expand...

Exactly. In MA you'd be SOL unless you filed suit and waited 3-4 years to MAYBE win! In NH, a phone call or letter from PGNH and this will get changed (again) until the next petty tyrant tries this again . . . rinse and repeat.
 
Bonesinium said:
How exactly does the state you live in effect ones ability or inability to carry? Do imaginary borders possess some special powers over people? What a friggin joke.
Click to expand...
That's sort of the whole reason behind the concept of individual states, so imaginary borders could delineate regions where different systems applied. Imaginary borders determine who you can marry, how much of your income you give to the government, what hoops you need to jump through in order to drive a car, give a haircut, or cut down a tree. So yeah, the state you live in determines whether/what/where/how you carry.
 
Thanks everyone for the feedback. I'm going to call them Monday and ask a few questions. Based on that call I'll determine next steps. I'll post an update for all those with restrictions who might be interested. Still can't believe my brother who lives seven minutes away in the next town doesn't have to worry about any if this cause his town is green. Makes no sense. ZERO. We laugh at how silly it is all the time. At least he laughs anyway.
 
Updates?

Also, since you were denied, contact Evan Nappen. He has a record of winning these kinds of cases (he is also the lead attorney for PGNH IIRC).
 
Well Folks I have good news and bad news. I contacted the NH Department of Safety. Good news is I was not formally denied. Their intent was for me to reapply when I had an unrestricted license. That is why they sent my check back. They were vague and told me to reapply and maybe it would be approved. I was about to do that but decided to contact PGNH first.

Bad news is according PGNH this is apparently a new rule. You must have a valid, unrestricted, concealed carry license from your home state in order to be issued a non-resident NH license. PGNH has already filed a lawsuit on behalf of a NJ man in October who was denied his renewal because he did not have a valid NJ concealed carry license. We all know how easy those are to come by. It appears that this rule has been attempted in the past but has no basis in actual existing law so they are fighting it once again. Someone just decided this is how we are going to do it until someone higher up says otherwise. They told me to check their website for updates. So it appears that if you have a restricted MA license we are SOL until this is cleared up. If you are from NJ or NY or anywhere else they don't issue concealed carry licenses you are also SOL for now. Please visit PGNH website for more info. It is all spelled out in black and white and there is a link to court filings related to the current law suit.
 
swesson said:
Well Folks I have good news and bad news. I contacted the NH Department of Safety. Good news is I was not formally denied. Their intent was for me to reapply when I had an unrestricted license. That is why they sent my check back. They were vague and told me to reapply and maybe it would be approved. I was about to do that but decided to contact PGNH first.

Bad news is according PGNH this is apparently a new rule. You must have a valid, unrestricted, concealed carry license from your home state in order to be issued a non-resident NH license. PGNH has already filed a lawsuit on behalf of a NJ man in October who was denied his renewal because he did not have a valid NJ concealed carry license. We all know how easy those are to come by. It appears that this rule has been attempted in the past but has no basis in actual existing law so they are fighting it once again. Someone just decided this is how we are going to do it until someone higher up says otherwise. They told me to check their website for updates. So it appears that if you have a restricted MA license we are SOL until this is cleared up. If you are from NJ or NY or anywhere else they don't issue concealed carry licenses you are also SOL for now. Please visit PGNH website for more info. It is all spelled out in black and white and there is a link to court filings related to the current law suit.
Click to expand...

This is pretty bogus, as New Hampshire law is pretty clear on this... I would re-apply, but state the text from the section 159:6 in your application, and attach a copy of 159:6 to the application for good measure.

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/XII/159/159-6.htm

(a) The selectmen of a town, the mayor or chief of police of a city or a full-time police officer designated by them respectively, the county sheriff for a resident of an unincorporated place, or the county sheriff if designated by the selectmen of a town that has no police chief, upon application of any resident of such town, city, or unincorporated place, or the director of state police, or some person designated by such director, upon application of a nonresident, shall issue a license to such applicant authorizing the applicant to carry a loaded pistol or revolver in this state for not less than 4 years from the date of issue, if it appears that the applicant has good reason to fear injury to the applicant's person or property or has any proper purpose, and that the applicant is a suitable person to be licensed. Hunting, target shooting, or self-defense shall be considered a proper purpose. The license shall be valid for all allowable purposes regardless of the purpose for which it was originally issued.
Click to expand...
 
swesson said:
Well Folks I have good news and bad news. I contacted the NH Department of Safety. Good news is I was not formally denied. Their intent was for me to reapply when I had an unrestricted license. That is why they sent my check back. They were vague and told me to reapply and maybe it would be approved. I was about to do that but decided to contact PGNH first.

Bad news is according PGNH this is apparently a new rule. You must have a valid, unrestricted, concealed carry license from your home state in order to be issued a non-resident NH license. PGNH has already filed a lawsuit on behalf of a NJ man in October who was denied his renewal because he did not have a valid NJ concealed carry license. We all know how easy those are to come by. It appears that this rule has been attempted in the past but has no basis in actual existing law so they are fighting it once again. Someone just decided this is how we are going to do it until someone higher up says otherwise. They told me to check their website for updates. So it appears that if you have a restricted MA license we are SOL until this is cleared up. If you are from NJ or NY or anywhere else they don't issue concealed carry licenses you are also SOL for now. Please visit PGNH website for more info. It is all spelled out in black and white and there is a link to court filings related to the current law suit.
Click to expand...

Here is a link to the PGNH article discussing this:
http://www.pgnh.org/new_jersey_sues...afety_over_non_resident_carry_license_denials
On October 8, the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs (ANJRPC) and its Executive Director Scott Bach filed suit against the New Hampshire Department of Safety over an illegal rule reversal that prevents Garden State residents and others from qualifying for New Hampshire non-resident carry licenses.

The change requires applicants to have a carry license from their home state in order to qualify for the New Hampshire non-resident license. Those living where carry permits are difficult or impossible to obtain, like New Jersey, can no longer qualify for the New Hampshire license, simply because of where they happen to live -- and for no other reason.

The rule reversal undermines the work of Bach and gun rights attorney Evan Nappen from nine years ago, which originally opened up New Hampshire licenses to New Jersey residents and those living in other "may-issue" or "no-issue" jurisdictions. Nappen is counsel in the case and is handling the litigation at no charge.

A copy of the complaint in Bach v. New Hampshire Dept. of Safety is available here. The lawsuit is based on violations of New Hampshire law, equal protection, and the Second Amendment.

"It is ironic that New Jerseyans are the ones having to teach a lesson in freedom to regulators in the Live Free or Die state," said Bach. "This rule reversal serves no legitimate purpose, impacts the rights of millions of law-abiding gun owners, and inexplicably cuts off a stream of revenue to the Granite State. We don't intend to let it stand."

In addition to New Jersey, the rule reversal affects residents from all "may-issue" and "no-issue" jurisdictions, including New York City, Washington, D.C., Massachusetts, New York State, Rhode Island, Maryland, Delaware, California, and Hawaii.

To help resolve this issue more quickly, everyone impacted by this rule reversal in any jurisdiction should immediately (and respectfully) email the public official listed below and explain that the rule change either prevents you from renewing your existing non-resident NH carry license, or prevents you from obtaining one even though you are otherwise qualified:

Mr. Earl Sweeney, Deputy Commissioner
New Hampshire Department of Safety
[email protected]

This new lawsuit is part of a broader initiative by ANJRPC to restore right to carry in the Garden State. ANJRPC is a plaintiff in an ongoing federal lawsuit challenging New Jersey's unconstitutional carry laws, and recently filed a "friend of the court" brief in a state challenge on the issue. Both cases may wind up before the U.S. Supreme Court. ANJRPC is the leading Second Amendment organization in New Jersey and the official state affiliate of the National Rifle Association.
Click to expand...


The case is Bach v. New Hampshire Dept. of Safety and I have found nothing on it during a search. My guess is the court has not even looked at it yet.

Is there any way us residents can speed this up or otherwise assist in resolving this BS rule change?
 
turbo89 said:
This is pretty bogus, as New Hampshire law is pretty clear on this... I would re-apply, but state the text from the section 159:6 in your application, and attach a copy of 159:6 to the application for good measure.

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/XII/159/159-6.htm
Click to expand...

Along with re-applying, I would CC Evan Nappen and PGNH. Include a letter with the above text of RSA 159:6 (bolded appropriately) and at the top, include the text that the other parties have been CC'd and make sure to actually CC them with a mailed copy of your application.

Nothing like forcing them to be aware that you have legal counsel aware and ready to fight for you. I would contact Evan Nappen and PGNH and let them know you are going to do this beforehand.
 
What's this? The enforcement part of government refusing to follow clear existing law in order to deny the people a right for which they should have no say about in the first place? Well color me shocked. This never happens...
 
Bonesinium said:
What's this? The enforcement part of government refusing to follow clear existing law in order to deny the people a right for which they should have no say about in the first place? Well color me shocked. This never happens...
Click to expand...


Even worse, it's in the Mecca of NH, where Freedom is everyone's first priority </sarcasm>

Stupid people are everywhere.
 

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