NH NFA Trust

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Someone posted somewhere on NES that an attorney was drafting NFA trusts for $200. Anyone know who this attorney is and if he is licensed in NH?

With the rule change, I want to create a trust and get a 22lr suppressor. The reason being I don't want to give the .gov my fingerprints and this new rule requires that so I need to get in before this change takes effect. With the new eforms, it shouldn't take nearly as long.

Also, if I add my brother as a trustee, how does that affect the form? Do I have to list him as a trustee? Does the form require the address of every trustee?


And to finance this: Anyone want to buy a Browning X-bolt with 4-12 Bushnell Trophy scope [smile]?
 
Review period ahead. Judging from how long it has taken to get to this point I would not expect anything for 6 months to a year, unless Barak gets involved and pushes.

Only reference I saw about the trusts were in the members section on the group buys. He was looking into getting a NH atty involved.
 
Yeah, I read about this two days ago. WTF?

Aparently convicted felons are bypassing the background checks to register their machine guns, silencers, sawed off shotguns and short barreled rifles.

I know it dosen't make any sense, but when did anything the gubbermint did ?
 
Someone posted somewhere on NES that an attorney was drafting NFA trusts for $200. Anyone know who this attorney is and if he is licensed in NH?
If you're in a hurry, you can get an instant trust for $199 from guntrust.com. You fill out a web form, they generate an NH-legal trust as a PDF file. The resulting trust is valid, but is kind of ugly (grammar errors and some non-critical inconsistencies in language). If you can get a real live lawyer to make you an NFA trust document for only a buck more, I'd go that route.


With the rule change, I want to create a trust and get a 22lr suppressor. The reason being I don't want to give the .gov my fingerprints and this new rule requires that so I need to get in before this change takes effect. With the new eforms, it shouldn't take nearly as long. Also, if I add my brother as a trustee, how does that affect the form? Do I have to list him as a trustee? Does the form require the address of every trustee?
When you buy (with or without a trust), you personally do a 4473 when you take possession from the dealer. There's not much that's different in the paperwork you do other than the name of the buyer and the lack of fingerprinting. I've been through so many background checks (with and without fingerprinting) in the last few years that I don't really care, but there are other advantages in the long term with a trust.

A second advantage of a trust is that there's no state paperwork or fee or "registration" of a revokable living trust in New Hampshire, you form a trust by creating the right paperwork and having it notarized (might cost you a buck). Some people choose to also get a trust checking account and use that to write all checks for anything on the trust and for the NFA stamps, but a checking account isn't strictly necessary. Several banks here are happy to establish a trust bank account with no-fee checking, and will even notarize your trust document for free.

If you add your brother to the trust AFTER you've finished the Form-4, there's nothing special to do for adding him, and nothing to send in or register -- he just signs (with a witness) a "Declaration of Co-Trustee" and he is on the trust. I think this part is what really concerns the BATFE, that you can give people access/possession without the ATF having any record of that person.
 
If you're in a hurry, you can get an instant trust for $199 from guntrust.com. You fill out a web form, they generate an NH-legal trust as a PDF file. The resulting trust is valid, but is kind of ugly (grammar errors and some non-critical inconsistencies in language). If you can get a real live lawyer to make you an NFA trust document for only a buck more, I'd go that route.



When you buy (with or without a trust), you personally do a 4473 when you take possession from the dealer. There's not much that's different in the paperwork you do other than the name of the buyer and the lack of fingerprinting. I've been through so many background checks (with and without fingerprinting) in the last few years that I don't really care, but there are other advantages in the long term with a trust.

A second advantage of a trust is that there's no state paperwork or fee or "registration" of a revokable living trust in New Hampshire, you form a trust by creating the right paperwork and having it notarized (might cost you a buck). Some people choose to also get a trust checking account and use that to write all checks for anything on the trust and for the NFA stamps, but a checking account isn't strictly necessary. Several banks here are happy to establish a trust bank account with no-fee checking, and will even notarize your trust document for free.

If you add your brother to the trust AFTER you've finished the Form-4, there's nothing special to do for adding him, and nothing to send in or register -- he just signs (with a witness) a "Declaration of Co-Trustee" and he is on the trust. I think this part is what really concerns the BATFE, that you can give people access/possession without the ATF having any record of that person.


They are changing that too, add a Person, you have to send in prints, photos and a signed CLEO form to the ATF within 30 days.

Twigg:
The joke is trying to find the prosecution of anyone for possession of a MG or other NFA that was listed in a trust as a responsible a person. My guess is zero federal prosecutions. The one example they list was a denial. The REAL reason for this is adding the CLEO sign off to everyone, so now people who can't get a Cleo, can't get NFA stuff.
 
With the rule change, I want to create a trust and get a 22lr suppressor. The reason being I don't want to give the .gov my fingerprints and this new rule requires that so I need to get in before this change takes effect.
Don't wait another day, go for it as soon as the "shutdown" ends.
 
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any PDF for the most part.
Unfortunately, all of the commercial "NFA Trust" makers (Apple Law Firm, Guntrustlawyer, etc) are putting copyright notices all over their trusts. Whle copyright on legal forms is probably not enforceable, nobody wants to be the test case. As I mentioned, there's always the instant trust for $199 from guntrust.com. You fill out a web form, they generate an NH-legal trust as a PDF file. The resulting trust is valid, but is kind of ugly (grammar errors and some non-critical inconsistencies in language).

OTOH, with the government shut down, they're not accepting any submissions right no, so no rush.
 
I am reasonably satisfied with mine and was able to secure a no-fee checking account for it at a local bank. That packet includes a fair amount of info pertaining to actually using the trust, though I am not entirely clear on how I would transition my personally-owned non-NFA AR to a select-fire, suppressed SBR owned by the trust.
 
you add it to the property list as a trustee IIRC. ex: i had an AR-15 lower, it is now in the trust, when it becomes a SBR, the SBR is in the trust.
 
I take it this is the Form 1 route (manufacturing). And of course it would not be select-fire since it would be my existing lower.
 
Any point in skating around CLEO in NH if no CoP in state outright refuses to sign?

I'm not sure what could be different in a $600+ NFA trust compared to the $199 version from guntrust.com. It isn't like you'd want to use the same trust for your granddaughter's college fund or anything.

The computer-generated trust is better than what you'd get with Quicken, but is kind of ugly (grammar errors and some non-critical inconsistencies in language). If you want to clean it up you may need to 'crack' the locked PDF file they provide.

I'm looking for something basic that works, so I can get an SBR.
Get, or make?
For the latter, the advantage of a trust is that you can file your Form-1 build on an existing receiver via eForm, for a much faster turnaround time. You can buy the trust through a website, pay the $200 via pay.gov, and start waiting immediately.

How long will you wait with an eForm? Look here.
 
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Who can you...In Eugene Stoner we...This you can...Broken...T Tr Tru Trus ...No 1 ...

With a trust built tonight and a bit of luck, could have your SBR stamp back before the new rules take effect (assuming the current June timeframe for the EO isn't accelerated).

Remember to choose a short (and funny!) trust name -- you can't change it later, and engravers charge by the line. Don't make the common mistake of including "Revokable Living Trust" as part of the name, you can use nearly any phrase or name (or not) ending in " Trust".
 
Is there anywhere I can get a trust setup for free? Couldn't you just take the language from someone else's trust, change the parts that apply to you and then get it notarized?
 
If these new laws get passed, will that affect any and all trusts?
Nobody knows for sure. Looks like most people in the business are guessing that it will affect all "new" transfers (not in 'pending' status by whatever date) and any changes to all existing trusts and other entities, but existing owners would be grandfathered in.

The [thread=219564]proposed rulemaking in 41P[/thread] isn't even a set of new laws, it's just a new way to enforce laws already written. Some provisions in 41P could eventually be overturned by the courts.

Is there anywhere I can get a trust setup for free? Couldn't you just take the language from someone else's trust, change the parts that apply to you and then get it notarized?
Yes, you could. That's pretty much what guntrust.com does for $199. Generic language for your home state, paste in the details from their mini-questionairre, deliver as a 'locked' PDF file.

As I recall, all commercial "NFA Trust" makers (Apple Law Firm, Guntrustlawyer, etc) put copyright notices all over their trusts. Sure, copyright on legal forms is probably not enforceable, but who wants to be the test case?
 
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Yes, you could. That's pretty much what guntrust.com does for $199. Generic language for your home state, paste in the details from their mini-questionairre, deliver as a 'locked' PDF file.

As I recall, all commercial "NFA Trust" makers (Apple Law Firm, Guntrustlawyer, etc) put copyright notices all over their trusts. Sure, copyright on legal forms is probably not enforceable, but who wants to be the test case?

Where can we get the information that would need to be on the document? Any NES members willing to share the info? Even if offline so no one gets into hot water.
 
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