NH & Maine ATV Riding Thread

KBCraig

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P.S. I'm against these "you must join a club" rules mandated by the state. The clubs need manpower more than money.
Once again: no one is mandated to join any ATV club by the state of New Hampshire. Period, full stop.

Everyone is free to pay the full ATV registration fee, instead of taking the voluntary discount that comes with voluntarily joining an ATV club.
 

GomerPile

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My thoughts are that use taxes that pay for services that I USE are just fine. The maintained OHRV trails need funding and I’d rather give my money to a local club than the .gov

The issues with healthcare are caused by the .gov allowing a state sanctioned monopoly to exist in a particular industry. Apples and oranges man....

Out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on the Affordable Care Act?
 

PatMcD

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Once again: no one is mandated to join any ATV club by the state of New Hampshire. Period, full stop.

Everyone is free to pay the full ATV registration fee, instead of taking the voluntary discount that comes with voluntarily joining an ATV club.
You are correct. I should have said I am against the two-tiered registration system meant to encourage club membership, which is essentially a "soft mandate". The reason I'm against it is because I think it will actually result in a reduction in manpower for the clubs. Some will pay that higher registration and think "well the club is getting more of my money, so they can hire people to do whatever it is they do".

I'm heavily involved in the snowmobile side of things over here in Maine. Money is not the issue (we're not rolling in it, but we raise enough to cover our expenses), boots on the ground is.
 

GomerPile

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I'm currently involved with snowmobiles in MA and used to be involved with a southern NH club.

Here in MA we have very little money and its boots on the ground or nothing. The southern NH club hired contractors and combined that with work parties. The contractors were snowmobile friendly and often did much more work than they were paid for.

I think the trend moving forward will be more hiring of contractors. Club leadership is aging and people are super busy and generally have more money than time. Not sure if thats good or bad...long as there is money available to pay them its ok I guess.

You are correct. I should have said I am against the two-tiered registration system meant to encourage club membership, which is essentially a "soft mandate". The reason I'm against it is because I think it will actually result in a reduction in manpower for the clubs. Some will pay that higher registration and think "well the club is getting more of my money, so they can hire people to do whatever it is they do".

I'm heavily involved in the snowmobile side of things over here in Maine. Money is not the issue (we're not rolling in it, but we raise enough to cover our expenses), boots on the ground is.
 

KBCraig

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My thoughts are that use taxes that pay for services that I USE are just fine. The maintained OHRV trails need funding and I’d rather give my money to a local club than the .gov
Fish & Game gave us some rough numbers that I don't recall precisely, but if riders had to pay for .gov to maintain the trails, it would be a ton more expensive, with not nearly as many trails.
 

PatMcD

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I'm currently involved with snowmobiles in MA and used to be involved with a southern NH club.

Here in MA we have very little money and its boots on the ground or nothing. The southern NH club hired contractors and combined that with work parties. The contractors were snowmobile friendly and often did much more work than they were paid for.

I think the trend moving forward will be more hiring of contractors. Club leadership is aging and people are super busy and generally have more money than time. Not sure if thats good or bad...long as there is money available to pay them its ok I guess.
I hear you on the aging membership issue. At 52, I'm one of the young guys.
Probably 40% of our budget goes directly to grooming; buying and maintaining machines, gas, oil, etc. The other 60% is pre-season trail maintenance, bridge building/re-planking, etc. That includes a heavy "walk-through" of all 40 miles of trails in our town. I'd love to hire out the "walk-through", but there's no way we could afford it, and if we could, I doubt they'd do as good of a job as we can with limbing trees, filling holes. Plus, it adds a whole 'nother aspect to landowner permission. Also, the work part of it is partially reimbursed by the state. We get a club grant of $5400, but to get it, we need to show that we have expended at least that amount with labor, gas, oil, bridge material, etc. Gas, oil, and material we need to pay for, but the labor is donated back to the club by our volunteers, and that's basically how we get some money (it doesn't cover all expenses) to operate. If we hired it out, we wouldn't have anything left to groom with.

Sorry for the documentary. I just wanted to make sure people didn't think the local clubs were making out like a bandit, when in most cases, they are starving for volunteers.
 

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Once again: no one is mandated to join any ATV club by the state of New Hampshire. Period, full stop.

Everyone is free to pay the full ATV registration fee, instead of taking the voluntary discount that comes with voluntarily joining an ATV club.
So the state jacks up the registration fee by $30 per vehicle, but if you join a club you get the old rate. So if you're registering more than ONE vehicle it's a damn mandate.
 
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Not a mandate. If you dont do it and register more than one machine then it's a tax on stupidity, or the mathematically challenged. Like the lottery.
 

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Not a mandate. If you dont do it and register more than one machine then it's a tax on stupidity, or the mathematically challenged. Like the lottery.
Yeah and the ACA isn’t really a mandate to buy health insurance...you’ll just pay more taxes if you don’t.
 

zboys

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I always donate extra $ to the club I join plus a few others in the area I ride in. Previously in NH but now mostly Maine. If the trails are good and we have a great riding experience, I'll pick a local club and send them $100. with a thank you card for keeping the trails open. Without all the clubs, we would not have the continuos trail systems in NH and Maine
 

atmay

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I always donate extra $ to the club I join plus a few others in the area I ride in. Previously in NH but now mostly Maine. If the trails are good and we have a great riding experience, I'll pick a local club and send them $100. with a thank you card for keeping the trails open. Without all the clubs, we would not have the continuos trail systems in NH and Maine
You mean you....give money, to the people that provide a service you enjoy? And the state doesn’t have to tell you to do it?!

What a novel concept.
 
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Yeah and the ACA isn’t really a mandate to buy health insurance...you’ll just pay more taxes if you don’t.
I get the point you are trying to make, but......nope.

There is no requirement to buy/own/register an ATV. But if you do want to, you can get a discount by donating to a club. ACA compels you to buy insurance or penalizes you if you dont. So, very different.
 

atmay

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I get the point you are trying to make, but......nope.

There is no requirement to buy/own/register an ATV. But if you do want to, you can get a discount by donating to a club. ACA compels you to buy insurance or penalizes you if you dont. So, very different.
There are some differences, sure...but conceptually, the two are very much the same.

You are using the force of law to coerce people into purchasing a service they wouldn’t necessarily purchase without the law factoring into the decision.

Especially when you consider that the registration isn’t just required to ride on public access trails, but on ANY property that doesn’t have your name on the deed....cars don’t even require that!
 

GomerPile

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If clubs relied on voluntary donations there would be no ATV or snowmobile trails. Pay a use tax and have thousands of miles of trails or pay nothing and not have a trail system.

People pay $15-20K for a UTV, $7K for a trailer, haul it with a $50K truck then bitch about $100 to make the trails happen.

You mean you....give money, to the people that provide a service you enjoy? And the state doesn’t have to tell you to do it?!

What a novel concept.
 
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There are some differences, sure...but conceptually, the two are very much the same.

You are using the force of law to coerce people into purchasing a service they wouldn’t necessarily purchase without the law factoring into the
I Maybe splitting hairs....but Gov doesnt mandate that you own an ATV. And also doesnt mandate that you have to ride on land you dont own. Since it is a priviledge to ride on the (mostly) privately owned property I am OK with Gov incentivizing club membership and funnels that money to the club (without taking a cut for the gov) I do not see that as a compulsory tax.

I am extremely anti-tax and would love a chance to bash tha ACA. But I am ok with a fee charged for a priviledge that wouldnt exist without it. And I dont equate it to ACA. But I agree with you in the sense that it may feel that way.
 

atmay

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If clubs relied on voluntary donations there would be no ATV or snowmobile trails. Pay a use tax and have thousands of miles of trails or pay nothing and not have a trail system.

People pay $15-20K for a UTV, $7K for a trailer, haul it with a $50K truck then bitch about $100 to make the trails happen.
People voluntarily pay for things all the time. I like the rotisserie chicken at my local hannaford, so I go there and pay for it. I have no use for an ATV club, so I don’t join one. I DO enjoy the trails maintained by the AMC, so I throw money at them.

If you’re afraid that no one will join your club without using the force of law to convince them it’s worth joining, that sounds like a shitty club to me. Maybe try hiring a new marketing and/or sales guy?
 

GomerPile

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In my area here in MA there are about 100 miles of snowmobile trails and roughly 1000 club members who ride them. Care to guess how many trail passes are purchased before the first snow storm? This year about 30....between the two clubs 10-12 of these passes were sold to club directors. People only join when there is snow on the ground...and even then they wait a couple weeks to make sure snow will stick around.

You may be a nice guy and send us a check voluntarily....your neighbors are a**h***s who will only help out when forced to....people suck in general.





People voluntarily pay for things all the time. I like the rotisserie chicken at my local hannaford, so I go there and pay for it. I have no use for an ATV club, so I don’t join one. I DO enjoy the trails maintained by the AMC, so I throw money at them.

If you’re afraid that no one will join your club without using the force of law to convince them it’s worth joining, that sounds like a shitty club to me. Maybe try hiring a new marketing and/or sales guy?
 

xtry51

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I Maybe splitting hairs....but Gov doesnt mandate that you own an ATV. And also doesnt mandate that you have to ride on land you dont own. Since it is a priviledge to ride on the (mostly) privately owned property I am OK with Gov incentivizing club membership and funnels that money to the club (without taking a cut for the gov) I do not see that as a compulsory tax.

I am extremely anti-tax and would love a chance to bash tha ACA. But I am ok with a fee charged for a priviledge that wouldnt exist without it. And I dont equate it to ACA. But I agree with you in the sense that it may feel that way.
I guess the core problem is you think owning an ATV is somehow a privilege granted by the state. That is a bullshit socialist position.
 

KBCraig

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I guess the core problem is you think owning an ATV is somehow a privilege granted by the state. That is a bullshit socialist position.
I guess the bullshit socialist position is thinking you have the privilege to ride on private land, on trails that are maintained by private clubs, without paying them.
 

xtry51

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I guess the bullshit socialist position is thinking you have the privilege to ride on private land, on trails that are maintained by private clubs, without paying them.
I'm not doing anything you're talking about. What part of no one maintains my trails and most of them are public property did you miss?
 

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Snowmobilers went thru this same thing a very long time ago.

Registration and clubs are the absolute cheapest part of the sport and people bitch the most about it.
 

xtry51

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This is no different than if the government passed a law saying "join a gun club or pay a fine per firearm you own".

I fail to see how the dollar amount has anything to do with the idea government is blackmailing citizens.
 

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My NH resident ATV registration expired two weeks ago, I don't belong to a club and don't really want to pay the $$ to renew it. Honestly, I don't have time to ride and only get out to the trails about three or four times a year. I bought the machine new in 1999 and only put 1600 miles/241 hours on it. Half of that was accumulated in the first two years, but it has averaged under 50 a year for the last 18 years.
The current registration renewal cost is $87, assuming I do 50 miles this year, that works out to $1.74 a mile for me.
Toll highways don't even cost that much per mile, but I'm spending that much to ride a dirt trail ??? Headscratch.gif
Now let's say that I do register it, but don't get to go riding and only use it to plow my driveway, which likely won't add more than one mile to my odometer in a full winter, then it cost me $87 a mile to use it. So it's people like me that really get screwed on the registration fees. I could register a pickup truck for less and put a whole lot more miles it.
 

PatMcD

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My NH resident ATV registration expired two weeks ago, I don't belong to a club and don't really want to pay the $$ to renew it. Honestly, I don't have time to ride and only get out to the trails about three or four times a year. I bought the machine new in 1999 and only put 1600 miles/241 hours on it. Half of that was accumulated in the first two years, but it has averaged under 50 a year for the last 18 years.
The current registration renewal cost is $87, assuming I do 50 miles this year, that works out to $1.74 a mile for me.
Toll highways don't even cost that much per mile, but I'm spending that much to ride a dirt trail ??? View attachment 293482
Now let's say that I do register it, but don't get to go riding and only use it to plow my driveway, which likely won't add more than one mile to my odometer in a full winter, then it cost me $87 a mile to use it. So it's people like me that really get screwed on the registration fees. I could register a pickup truck for less and put a whole lot more miles it.
The flip side of that is, I know some older gentlemen who pay full registration on their trucks yet drive less than 1000 miles per year, yet they'll chalk up 5-10,000 miles on their sleds in 3 months.
 

Zappa

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I did spend the $87 to register my ATV for another year in NH.
We avoided the clusterf***k of the ATV Festival last weekend at Jericho and went up to 7 Islands in Millsfield. From there we rode up to Dixville Notch, here's a pic taken up at the wind turbines near the top of the mountain:

scott_dixville_turbine1.jpg

Maine is having a free weekend August 16-18, so ATV's registered in another state can be used in Maine without a non-resident registration:

Laws and Rules for 2018-2019 - ATV Maine

I keep my ATV at a friends place in Effingham NH for the Summers, and I just got some info on riding areas in Maine that are MUCH closer to there than the places in NH where we usually go.
I was told that there's a parking area and trailhead in Shapleigh ME at Boonies store on RT#11.
I hear that you can ride from there all the way to Portland, so we'll check it out in two weeks.
Maybe we'll just register them in Maine next year and forget about getting the NH sticker.
A Maine non-resident registration is only $4 more ($91) than an NH resident registration, but it's so much closer to our starting point that we'll save much more than that in gas and time getting to and from the riding areas.
 

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I'm back at it this weekend, we rode the Wakefield trails yesterday which are maintained by the New Durham Valley ATV Club.

Trail Maps – New Durham Valley ATV club

We didn't even know this place existed until last week and it's only a 20 minute drive from Effingham.
The place isn't very big, you can cover the whole area in about an hour, but it was a nice mix of different terrains, including a steep rocky trail that leads to a nice scenic view overlooking Pine River Pond. It's really easy to get to the parking area, right off RT 16 North in Wakefield, just North of Wontons Chinese Restaurant.

Later on we took a drive down to Boonies General Store in Shapleigh Maine to scope out the place and get a trail map. Also easy to get to, right on RT 11 in Shapleigh, there's a parking area and trail head right there. We spoke to a few people there and got some more info about the trail system. We also drove around some of the dirt backroads of Newfields and Parsonfield and found several marked trail crossings and parking areas. I waypointed these spots on my GPS so we'll be better prepared to take advantage of the free weekend in Maine next week, lets hope the weather cooperates.

Today we're taking the ATV's down to Alton/New Durham to ride the other trails run by the NDV club. We went there about four years ago, but were disappointed by how small it was. However, more trails have been opened up to riding since then so we'll check out the new areas.

On another note, I just learned that NH passed a new OHRV law that goes into effect next month regarding mirrors. Getting hard info is still sketchy because I can't find any revisions to RSA 215-A:14 posted online after 2016, but I'm told that ATV's will be required to have at least one rear view mirror after September 10, 2019. I'll post more on this when the specifics becomes available.
 
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