NH 2021 Bill thread: Critical Bills need to be voted on 5/25

42!

NES Life Member
NES Member
Rating - 100%
9   0   0
Joined
Apr 9, 2010
Messages
8,737
Likes
7,050
It doesnt have to cost money.......the DoS miraculously fixed the issues this spring when pressure began to be applied.....

All it would require is a quarterly report mandated and made public/sent to governor and legislature
They "fixed" it by pulling officers off the road to work full time in the GL, and only did that when they were under threat of being dissolved. Now that that has passed it will be back to SOP. Fed checks are already funded and was and still is the fist thing the GL does, so there isn't any difference in whether or not the fed check is actually done.
 
Last edited:

jpk

Rating - 100%
4   0   0
Joined
Jan 5, 2013
Messages
16,387
Likes
16,027
Their "fix" was to pull bodies from other agencies who will eventually need them back. Bodies cost money and bodies is not the only thing they need.

Judging from my experiences buying three pistols last month, the gun line is faaaaaar from "fixed".
42 said:
They "fixed" it by pulling officers off the road to work full time in the GL, and only did that when they were under threat of being dissolved. Now that that has passed it will be back to SOP. Fed checks are already funded and was and still is the fist thing the GL does, so there is difference in whether or not the fed check is actually done.

Here's the thing though....DoS is funded by tolls on road....and they've been getting the max amount/percentage as long as I can remember

And for as long as I can remember they've had officers doing dumb shit like standing at toll booths looking for expired inspection stickers.....and other equally useless make work kinds of bish

So I'm pretty much 100% sure they can re-prioritize what they've got and make do with the budget they have

And as stated previously the performance issues are a function of oversight......ie the failure of the legislature and governor's office to monitor
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Oct 24, 2006
Messages
246
Likes
247
Location
New Hampshire
Here's the thing though....DoS is funded by tolls on road....and they've been getting the max amount/percentage as long as I can remember

And for as long as I can remember they've had officers doing dumb shit like standing at toll booths looking for expired inspection stickers.....and other equally useless make work kinds of bish

So I'm pretty much 100% sure they can re-prioritize what they've got and make do with the budget they have

And as stated previously the performance issues are a function of oversight......ie the failure of the legislature and governor's office to monitor
I don’t agree with you because the state system has been flawed for decades. however, since you’ve talked about oversight please explain how that will work with an anti gun democrat Majority executives counsellor and an anti gun democrat governor? I don’t think it will. I think you be waiting weeks for your new pistol. The fbi has shown that irrespective of who ever is in the white house, checks are processed fast. Much faster than NH.
 

jpk

Rating - 100%
4   0   0
Joined
Jan 5, 2013
Messages
16,387
Likes
16,027
I don’t agree with you because the state system has been flawed for decades. however, since you’ve talked about oversight please explain how that will work with an anti gun democrat Majority executives counsellor and an anti gun democrat governor? I don’t think it will. I think you be waiting weeks for your new pistol. The fbi has shown that irrespective of who ever is in the white house, checks are processed fast. Much faster than NH.

So the NH gun line has had up and down performance literally forever......

If you want a solution to that then dont go back to sleep on the issue.....call/write your legislator and the governor and demand that they address the performance issues and have DoS provide performance metrics several times a year.

I would still rather have local control and than cede that control to a hostile administration bent on violating RKBA
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Oct 24, 2006
Messages
246
Likes
247
Location
New Hampshire
So the NH gun line has had up and down performance literally forever......

If you want a solution to that then dont go back to sleep on the issue.....call/write your legislator and the governor and demand that they address the performance issues and have DoS provide performance metrics several times a year.

I would still rather have local control and than cede that control to a hostile administration bent on violating RKBA
You didnt answer my question, how will you force an anti gun governor to enforce this? How will you prevent future slow downs from an anti gun administration?
 

design

NES Member
Rating - 100%
3   0   0
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
1,537
Likes
1,197
You didnt answer my question, how will you force an anti gun governor to enforce this? How will you prevent future slow downs from an anti gun administration?
Put the following requirements in statute:
1. Reporting requirements like # or calls per day or hour, Time of each call, etc.
2. Performance requirements: establish a baseline for performance
3. Audit with penalties for failing to perform
 

design

NES Member
Rating - 100%
3   0   0
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
1,537
Likes
1,197
Their "fix" was to pull bodies from other agencies who will eventually need them back. Bodies cost money and bodies is not the only thing they need.

Judging from my experiences buying three pistols last month, the gun line is faaaaaar from "fixed".
AFAIK, calls are taking 5 minutes or less since about mid February. There were policy changes, staff changes and some equipment process upgrades. If you have actual data that is different, PM me.
 

AFAR/PFAR

NES Member
Rating - 100%
12   0   0
Joined
Jul 16, 2020
Messages
1,949
Likes
2,337
Location
Grafton & Coös Counties
AFAIK, calls are taking 5 minutes or less since about mid February. There were policy changes, staff changes and some equipment process upgrades. If you have actual data that is different, PM me.

I bought three pistols last month. Your 5 minutes is f***ing bullshit.

Put the following requirements in statute:
1. Reporting requirements like # or calls per day or hour, Time of each call, etc.
2. Performance requirements: establish a baseline for performance
3. Audit with penalties for failing to perform

LMAO. Pipe dream. Nobody holds anyone accountable for government failings in this state. See HB307 dead as a doornail in the senate for a recent example.
 

KBCraig

NES Member
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Dec 29, 2009
Messages
14,659
Likes
12,276
Location
Granite State of Mind
Actually he nailed it and exactly why 141 is a tactical disaster that would cede control to Feds
There is no control to cede. The feds already control it, starting with the requirement to conduct a background check.

NH does not require a background check. NH should not be involved in the process.

Period.
 

KBCraig

NES Member
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Dec 29, 2009
Messages
14,659
Likes
12,276
Location
Granite State of Mind
It doesnt have to cost money.......the DoS miraculously fixed the issues this spring when pressure began to be applied.....

All it would require is a quarterly report mandated and made public/sent to governor and legislature

The DoS can also miraculously un-fix the issue as soon as there's a change in the political winds. They didn't add troopers to the Gun Line because they cared about the wait time; they did so because they didn't want to lose this system and the jobs that go with it.

Please explain how a "quarterly report mandated and made public/sent to governor and legislature" is going to fix anything.
 

jpk

Rating - 100%
4   0   0
Joined
Jan 5, 2013
Messages
16,387
Likes
16,027
There is no control to cede. The feds already control it, starting with the requirement to conduct a background check.

NH does not require a background check. NH should not be involved in the process.

Period.

There's everything to cede

The fact of the matter is that the 68 GCA isnt going away so you can choose to have an active state run buffer on a future abusive fed action or you can choose to do nothing and have zero potential actions that the state could take to protect rights of citizens and provide top cover for FFL's to continue to operate


KBCraig}<break /><break /> A hostile administration bent on violating RKBA like... Gov. Feltes?[/quote said:
Exactly....thats why you put the reporting/performance requirements for DoS into RSA and tie it to a funding for the larger DoS

Its not as if this issue hasnt existed for more than a decade.....its just recently that part of the GOP in the House and Senate started paying attention to it and instead of implementing good policy they decided to punt to the feds and wash their hands of it and hope for the best
 

jpk

Rating - 100%
4   0   0
Joined
Jan 5, 2013
Messages
16,387
Likes
16,027
LMAO. Pipe dream. Nobody holds anyone accountable for government failings in this state. See HB307 dead as a doornail in the senate for a recent example.

Ponder for a moment why there isnt a level of accountability that should exist?

Want accountability then get (more) involved and get your friends involved

We are our own worst enemy
 

42!

NES Life Member
NES Member
Rating - 100%
9   0   0
Joined
Apr 9, 2010
Messages
8,737
Likes
7,050
Here's the thing though....DoS is funded by tolls on road....and they've been getting the max amount/percentage as long as I can remember

And for as long as I can remember they've had officers doing dumb shit like standing at toll booths looking for expired inspection stickers.....and other equally useless make work kinds of bish

So I'm pretty much 100% sure they can re-prioritize what they've got and make do with the budget they have

And as stated previously the performance issues are a function of oversight......ie the failure of the legislature and governor's office to monitor
It doesn't work that way. Officers are hired for a specific job, sure they can re-assign them temporarily, but if you think the officers, or their union, will stand for taking sworn law enforcement officers off their normal duties to permanently re-assign them to a desk and phone, you are being delusional. They could only hire more people, which means more money. But it's more likely they will just go back to the old way of things.
 

xtry51

NES Member
Rating - 100%
7   0   0
Joined
Feb 7, 2010
Messages
26,177
Likes
27,065
Location
NH (CT Escapee)
It doesn't work that way. Officers are hired for a specific job, sure they can re-assign them temporarily, but if you think the officers, or their union, will stand for taking sworn law enforcement officers off their normal duties to permanently re-assign them to a desk and phone, you are being delusional. They could only hire more people, which means more money. But it's more likely they will just go back to the old way of things.

I agree banning public unions is the first step in the right direction
 

jpk

Rating - 100%
4   0   0
Joined
Jan 5, 2013
Messages
16,387
Likes
16,027
It doesn't work that way. Officers are hired for a specific job, sure they can re-assign them temporarily, but if you think the officers, or their union, will stand for taking sworn law enforcement officers off their normal duties to permanently re-assign them to a desk and phone, you are being delusional. They could only hire more people, which means more money. But it's more likely they will just go back to the old way of things.
Of course it works that way

People get reassigned all the time and/or rotate in and out of jobs/roles

The excuses are almost comical
 

AFAR/PFAR

NES Member
Rating - 100%
12   0   0
Joined
Jul 16, 2020
Messages
1,949
Likes
2,337
Location
Grafton & Coös Counties
We are our own worst enemy

When you have a 2A group who general does good things, and one I have sent small donations to in the past, go completely off the rails and side with 169 Democrat Representatives and 10 Democrat Senators, I'll sure as heck say we have an enemy.

We had the opportunity to get NH completely out of the background check business. A business it should not be involved in anyways. Instead, we are back to an inefficient and technologically inept system that will not be fixed. Why won't it be fixed-because it costs money and effort.

Sununu blames it on covid, but when was the last time he bought a pistol as a private citizen. It isn't a covid problem, it is a gun line problem. He doesn't understand. What further misinforms him is when you have the gun rights group mentioned in his veto message poisoning him to the bill--all is good, it's "fixed" now-the evil feds, etc. Why did it need fixing? The gun rights group was one of our voices to the governor, and they let the gun owners and buyers of NH down. Not only on this bill, but by poisoning SB141, we lost our chance to fix OHRV carry.

I may seem pissed off, but that is because I am. I'm the gun owner and gun buyer that is getting f***ed here. This crap has cost me money and time. We have majorities in the House and Senate. We have a decent, but middle of the road, governor who has proven he'll go the proper way on 2A and tax issues. We had an opportunity to fix so many things this year, but other than some tiny victories we failed. NHFC contributed to those victories, but in a mind blowing fashion that negatively effects me and my 2A rights directly contributed to those failures.
 

AFAR/PFAR

NES Member
Rating - 100%
12   0   0
Joined
Jul 16, 2020
Messages
1,949
Likes
2,337
Location
Grafton & Coös Counties
Of course it works that way

People get reassigned all the time and/or rotate in and out of jobs/roles

Those state troopers need to be on the road, not answering phones for something the state shouldn't be doing anyways.

I'm sure an increased road presence and therefore backup would have been beneficial for the officer involved in this OIS. We have a bunch of towns which rely on state troopers as their only police-dudes are spread thin.

Dalton Officer Involved Shooting | Multimedia | NH Department of Justice
 

jpk

Rating - 100%
4   0   0
Joined
Jan 5, 2013
Messages
16,387
Likes
16,027
Those state troopers need to be on the road, not answering phones for something the state shouldn't be doing anyways.

I'm sure an increased road presence and therefore backup would have been beneficial for the officer involved in this OIS. We have a bunch of towns which rely on state troopers as their only police-dudes are spread thin.

Dalton Officer Involved Shooting | Multimedia | NH Department of Justice

Lets not drag strawman arguments into this

This is about one thing and one thing only

Do you want to cede what little control we have to the fed OR do you want to keep it at the state level

Its clear to me that we have a BETTER chance of mitigating issues by keeping the NH Gun line......there's no perfect solution.....choose the lesser of two evils
 

Blackmore

NES Member
Rating - 100%
79   0   0
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Messages
2,156
Likes
1,669
Location
W. Central NH
From the veto message:

"...the New Hampshire Coalition against Domestic and Sexual Violence ... join(s) me in raising significant concerns with this legislation."

Like it or not, Sununu is covering his flank. Though he only mentions this one group, if he had signed the bill there are plenty of others of the same ilk who would have had another club to bludgeon him with when the next election comes - whether it's for Governor or US Senator.
 

Palladin

NES Member
Rating - 100%
29   0   0
Joined
Mar 27, 2007
Messages
27,363
Likes
13,285
Location
Merrimack Valley
 

42!

NES Life Member
NES Member
Rating - 100%
9   0   0
Joined
Apr 9, 2010
Messages
8,737
Likes
7,050
Of course it works that way

People get reassigned all the time and/or rotate in and out of jobs/roles

The excuses are almost comical
You really are delusional. They will not "reassign" a sworn law enforcement officer to a desk civilian position, just not ever going to happen. We've got cops on this forum, speak up, would you ever be asked, let alone agree, if your chief came to you and said "well you're doing a good job but I want you to give up your PO job, union membership, some of you pay, and be our administrative assistant and sit at the front desk all day. The people picking up the phone and entering the data at the GL are nothing special, just administrative personnel.
 

42!

NES Life Member
NES Member
Rating - 100%
9   0   0
Joined
Apr 9, 2010
Messages
8,737
Likes
7,050
Those state troopers need to be on the road, not answering phones for something the state shouldn't be doing anyways.

I'm sure an increased road presence and therefore backup would have been beneficial for the officer involved in this OIS. We have a bunch of towns which rely on state troopers as their only police-dudes are spread thin.

Dalton Officer Involved Shooting | Multimedia | NH Department of Justice

Lets not drag strawman arguments into this

This is about one thing and one thing only

Do you want to cede what little control we have to the fed OR do you want to keep it at the state level

Its clear to me that we have a BETTER chance of mitigating issues by keeping the NH Gun line......there's no perfect solution.....choose the lesser of two evils

Not a strawman argument at all. It was you that said "People get reassigned all the time" and he effectively offered a counter to your statement. And since you can't defend that YOU suggested reassigning officers, you scream strawman. And that we ever had control is just more delusion. The GL uses the Fed check system. The GL only exists at the discretion of the Fed, and it's only an administrative letter that makes that all go away, no new laws, no hearings, no appeals, just goodbye. And you say this equals NH having control [rofl]
If you want states to have control, GREAT. Fight for that at the Fed level. I'll even support that. But closing your eyes to reality and pretending you have control 1. does not give you control, and 2. guarantees that you will NEVER have it.
 

jpk

Rating - 100%
4   0   0
Joined
Jan 5, 2013
Messages
16,387
Likes
16,027
Not a strawman argument at all. It was you that said "People get reassigned all the time" and he effectively offered a counter to your statement. And since you can't defend that YOU suggested reassigning officers, you scream strawman. And that we ever had control is just more delusion. The GL uses the Fed check system. The GL only exists at the discretion of the Fed, and it's only an administrative letter that makes that all go away, no new laws, no hearings, no appeals, just goodbye. And you say this equals NH having control [rofl]
If you want states to have control, GREAT. Fight for that at the Fed level. I'll even support that. But closing your eyes to reality and pretending you have control 1. does not give you control, and 2. guarantees that you will NEVER have it.

42, you've consistenly been on wrong side of every issue literally for years

People ARE reassigned to different roles all the time

The state option (POC States) to handle background checks isnt going away......red and blue states alike use it and if the fed gov were to try to eliminate it then blue and red states alike would pitch a fit and court challenges WOULD be upheld

We've gone back and forth on WHAT and HOW the state police do and to say that its nothing more than a NICS rubber stamp is simply wrong.......not to mention that the state has wide discression to do other things....

If NH wanted to they could implement an optional CCW that qualified as a NICS check for purchases.....there are 28 states that do this already

But instead of keeping the gun line as a potential tool to push back on the Fed and working to improve it OR implement CCW's that would circumvent a NICS check for purchases....y'all just wring your hands and scream/stamp your feet
 

jpk

Rating - 100%
4   0   0
Joined
Jan 5, 2013
Messages
16,387
Likes
16,027
You really are delusional. They will not "reassign" a sworn law enforcement officer to a desk civilian position, just not ever going to happen. We've got cops on this forum, speak up, would you ever be asked, let alone agree, if your chief came to you and said "well you're doing a good job but I want you to give up your PO job, union membership, some of you pay, and be our administrative assistant and sit at the front desk all day. The people picking up the phone and entering the data at the GL are nothing special, just administrative personnel.

News flash.....not everyone in the DoS is an "Officer"

Chew down on that for a while.......
 

design

NES Member
Rating - 100%
3   0   0
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
1,537
Likes
1,197
Bottom line is for the last few months the NHGL has been more effective than it has been for years. Could it go back, sure. The federal line delays 1 out of every 10 calls. Is that an acceptable rate? For many, the 1 out of every 10 is not acceptable.

The solution is to make sure the NHGL cannot drift back to their prior ways. There are many ways to do that.

From the header of the document below: Is this really good enough?
  • In 2019, 89.44% of the tens of millions NICS checks done annually are completed immediately, just over 10% of NICS checks are “delayed.”
  • • The vast majority (88%) of delayed NICS checks are resolved within three business days and 94% within 10 days.
  • • Only 0.7% of 2019 delayed NICS checks were never resolved.
  • Only minuscule 0.01% of transferred firearms are referred to ATF for retrieval because the purchaser turned out to be a prohibited person.

If I rephrase the last statement, the 99.99% of transfers are not an issue, which means that there are a lot of false positive denials in the system.
Just remember: out of the 112,000 denials in 2017, they prosecuted 12. This means that the other ~111,980 were abused by the system
 

Attachments

  • NSSF-Factsheet-NICS-Delays(2).pdf
    75.4 KB · Views: 2
Last edited:

design

NES Member
Rating - 100%
3   0   0
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
1,537
Likes
1,197
Nobody holds anyone accountable for government failings in this state. See HB307 dead as a doornail in the senate for a recent example.
BTW, it is worse than just HB307: SB154 was a senate disaster to begin with, and the House fixed it and then the Senate in the CoC screwed it up again. HB196, HB197 were also retained by the Senate Judiciary cmte. The Senate also corrupted HB334 with SB141. HB334 without that amendment would have passed.
When the NH Senate gets bad grades from NHFC for this years disasters, let's revisit the above statement.|
 

design

NES Member
Rating - 100%
3   0   0
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
1,537
Likes
1,197
May 2020,
"Thousands of U.S. gun dealers were urged not to finalize surging weapons' sales until the FBI completes background checks even if the review process extends beyond the mandated three business days.
The National Shooting Sports Foundation issued the advisory at the start of a rush on the firearms market as a crush of gun buyers flooded the bureau’s system during the coronavirus health emergency.
Larry Keane, general counsel for the firearm industry’s association, said the advisory was issued in March after dealers in more than two dozen states received notices from the bureau indicating that background reviews would not be completed in time, in some cases for up to 28 days."


As for me the federal performance is NOT an acceptable standard.
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Oct 24, 2006
Messages
246
Likes
247
Location
New Hampshire
BTW, it is worse than just HB307: SB154 was a senate disaster to begin with, and the House fixed it and then the Senate in the CoC screwed it up again. HB196, HB197 were also retained by the Senate Judiciary cmte. The Senate also corrupted HB334 with SB141. HB334 without that amendment would have passed.
When the NH Senate gets bad grades from NHFC for this years disasters, let's revisit the above statement.|
Alan Rice from GOA says that Rep. Abbas and the other representatives on the committee, Lynn, Osborne and Wallace are all to blame for ruing SB 154.

ACTION NEEDED — Good bill turned bad!! | GOA New Hampshire
 

jpk

Rating - 100%
4   0   0
Joined
Jan 5, 2013
Messages
16,387
Likes
16,027
Alan Rice from GOA says that Rep. Abbas and the other representatives on the committee, Lynn, Osborne and Wallace are all to blame for ruing SB 154.

ACTION NEEDED — Good bill turned bad!! | GOA New Hampshire

What happened and when to these bills is pretty well documented on the gencourt site docket

The house pushed a pretty significant amount of good policy proposals in bills on a broad variety of issues.

The senate in most every case was the body that poisoned the well.....and it was across the board on issues from limiting governors emergency powers to some of the RKBA bills discussed in this thread.

When push came to shove and bills crossed over and conf cmte bs was required it was once again the Senate that poisoned lots of good policy efforts.......Sen Carson was on that CoC and while listed as a republican she's sponsored a significant amount of gun control in the past.....particularly Red Flag related stuff along with dems.

We really need to retire a couple of GOP senators that have behaved like dems far too often.....what we need IMHO is to recruit a couple of good candidates to challenge a select few squishy republican senators next year
 
Top Bottom