NFA SBR: Form 1 Multi-Caliber

BREWINZ

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Completely new to the form 1 and NFA world. If you would allow me to state what I think I understand and ask some questions it would be greatly appreciated. Please feel free to correct me where I'm wrong.

Project: I am using a POST-1994 AR lower to build a 9mm SBR.

1. I am building a 9mm SBR from an Anderson AM-15 multi cal lower. On form 1, section 4c, I should input the caliber as 5.56mm because I am using a Stern Defense Glock 9mm mag adapter which can be removed. Thus, the true caliber of the receiver is 5.56/.223.

2. Upon tax stamp acquisition, I can install an SBR 9mm upper. I can also remove the mag adapter and use separate upper for a different caliber. 5.56, .300 Blackout, etc.

What I'm really unsure about is section 4e and 4f. Should I put the lowest length the barrel and overall rifle could possibly be or is an SBR receiver covered for all lengths under 16" and 26", respectively, once the tax stamp is obtained? I don't know if an SBR is an SBR or if the ATF cares about a few inches.
 
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BriMac

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In the past I have picked the short barrel combo that I was going to build for the info and enter that on the form. After you have the approved form back and you have marked the barrel or reciever with your info you are good to go . You can change the caliber / barrels till your flat broke and ATF is fine with that . I would mark the receiver in your case not being a pre 94.
 

BREWINZ

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In the past I have picked the short barrel combo that I was going to build for the info and enter that on the form. After you have the approved form back and you have marked the barrel or reciever with your info you are good to go . You can change the caliber / barrels till your flat broke and ATF is fine with that . I would mark the receiver in your case not being a pre 94.

Yes. Thank you. I understand that I must impress the receiver with my name and city/town.

Must you mark the barrel? That's something I'm not aware of.
 

BriMac

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You can do one or the other and that fullfills the marking requirements. On a pre 94 guns its better to leave the reciever unmarked for resale value.
 

BREWINZ

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You can do one or the other and that fullfills the marking requirements. On a pre 94 guns its better to leave the reciever unmarked for resale value.

This is a post-94 receiver. I get your point, but as I'll be changing uppers I think it makes more sense for me to mark the lower receiver.

Seems odd that only marking the upper would make sense to the ATF. That's not a firearm.
 

BriMac

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The marking of the barrel is a acceptable practice that is in the regulations, so if it benefits your situation I say use it . We dont get many freebees in the NFA world .
 

Lxpony

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ATF doesnt care about you swapping barrel lengths or caliber changes. They only care permanent changes to the SBR lower outside of what you put in on the FORM 1.

Lots of myths and paranoia out there. FAQ on ATF website makes no reference to swapping uppers so you are good to go.
 
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ATF doesnt care about you swapping barrel lengths or caliber changes. They only care permanent changes to the SBR lower outside of what you put in on the FORM 1.

Lots of myths and paranoia out there. FAQ on ATF website makes no reference to swapping uppers so you are good to go.


Agreed. I was always told as long as I own the components to make the rifle back to the specs on the form 1, its no issue. I originally submitted as a 10.5", now use a 11.5" upper.
 

BREWINZ

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Agreed. I was always told as long as I own the components to make the rifle back to the specs on the form 1, its no issue. I originally submitted as a 10.5", now use a 11.5" upper.

So, I may have to buy a 5.56 NFA upper to keep laying around? My intention is to keep it a 9mm, but that's not a permanent change to the receiver so form 1 must have a 5.56 barrel length. Am I getting that right?
 

boilermaker

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Agreed. I was always told as long as I own the components to make the rifle back to the specs on the form 1, its no issue. I originally submitted as a 10.5", now use a 11.5" upper.

This was somewhat my understanding too, but I thought you had stay within the same caliber and you could go longer but not shorter than your paperwork.
 
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So, I may have to buy a 5.56 NFA upper to keep laying around? My intention is to keep it a 9mm, but that's not a permanent change to the receiver so form 1 must have a 5.56 barrel length. Am I getting that right?

To be honest, its speculation on my part. But for sake of argument, if you apply for a stamp as a 5.56 AR you should build it out that way. If you change later thats fine. If you want to use it as a 9mm, I would fill that out on the form. When you get it engraved, make sure to also engrave the caliber on the lower as well. ATF doesn't like "Multi-Cal", they'll ask for clarification.

Not sure if you are active over on AR15.com, but there is a wealth of knowledge over there. Might be worth asking the question in front of a larger, more experienced community.
 

BREWINZ

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To be honest, its speculation on my part. But for sake of argument, if you apply for a stamp as a 5.56 AR you should build it out that way. If you change later thats fine. If you want to use it as a 9mm, I would fill that out on the form. When you get it engraved, make sure to also engrave the caliber on the lower as well. ATF doesn't like "Multi-Cal", they'll ask for clarification.

Not sure if you are active over on AR15.com, but there is a wealth of knowledge over there. Might be worth asking the question in front of a larger, more experienced community.

Thanks. Much obliged.
 

ScottS

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Doesn't the marking have to be on the actual firearm? Pretty sure a barrel won't fly for an AR pattern rifle.


"The serial number must be engraved or stamped on the receiver of the firearm and the caliber, model, and identification of the maker must be engraved on the barrel or frame or receiver of the weapon."

See: ATF National Firearms Act Handbook, Chapter 6, Para 6.2.1 "Description of Firearm."
See also: 27 CFR 479.102 "How must firearms be identified"
 

Jconnor93

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ScottS

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I'm assuming this is for the nfa portion of the engraving?

No. You know what they say about assuming.

27 CFR 479.102 dictates how all firearms must be marked. It is not specific to NFA. It's common for many rifles to have information engraved on the barrel. Only the serial number is specified for the frame. Think Glock, or even better, M&P. Some of the model, caliber, etc. markings are on the slide and barrel only.

§ 479.102 How must firearms be identified?

(a) You, as a manufacturer, importer, or maker of a firearm, must legibly identify the firearm as follows:

(1) By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped (impressed) or placed on the frame or receiver thereof an individual serial number. The serial number must be placed in a manner not susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered, or removed, and
must not duplicate any serial number placed by you on any other firearm. For firearms manufactured, imported, or made on and after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of the serial number must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print size no smaller than 1/16 inch; and

(2) By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped (impressed), or placed on the frame, receiver, or barrel thereof certain additional information. This information must be placed in a manner not susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered or removed. For firearms manufactured, imported, or made on and after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of this information must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch. The additional information includes:

(i) The model, if such designation has been made;

(ii) The caliber or gauge;

(iii) Your name (or recognized abbreviation) and also, when applicable, the name of the foreign manufacturer or maker;

(iv) In the case of a domestically made firearm, the city and State (or recognized abbreviation thereof) where you as the manufacturer maintain your place of business, or where you, as the maker, made the firearm; and

(v) In the case of an imported firearm, the name of the country in which it was manufactured and the city and State (or recognized abbreviation thereof) where you as the importer maintain your place of business. For additional requirements relating to imported firearms, see Customs regulations at 19 CFR part 134.
 
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BREWINZ

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I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees the complication and differences in opinion. I didn't ask about it, but I'm going to engrave the receiver.

Based on opinions I've received here, Reddit, AR15.com, etc. I am going to register the lower as a 9MM and use the barrel length I intend to install on form 1. Based on that, I'll guesstimate the overall length to the best of my ability. If I change it later, The ATF "asks" that I notify them, but is not required.
 
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ScottS

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I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees the complication and differences in opinion. I didn't ask about it, but I'm going to engrave the receiver.

Based on opions I've received here, Reddit, AR15.com, etc. I am going to register the lower as a 9MM and use the barrel length I intend to install on form 1. Based on that, I'll guesstimate the overall length to the best of my ability.

Well, it's not an opinion. 27 CFR 479.102 is the governing regulation for all firearms, Title II (NFA) as well as Title I (non-NFA). You (as the Maker) have the option to engrave your Maker info on the receiver or the barrel, but hardly anyone does the info on the barrel for an AR. I literally have 10+ separate uppers in different calibers and lengths for my SBR lowers. What a pain that would be to mark all of them.

My Rem 870 SBS, on the other hand, has all my Maker's info engraved on the 14" barrel. When I swap back to Title I status, by putting on the 26" VR Skeet barrel, it no longer needs the engraving and I didn't have to mark up the receiver. That was the point, waaaay back in the beginning, someone was trying to make: if you had a pristine, pre-ban (94) receiver, and you didn't want to mark it up, you could go the barrel-engrave route. But that's not your case, and it's too much of a pain to engrave every upper you end up with.

BTW, IMO the NFA Section of ARFCOM is golden, especially anything written by Big Waylon.
 

BREWINZ

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Well, it's not an opinion. 27 CFR 479.102 is the governing regulation for all firearms, Title II (NFA) as well as Title I (non-NFA). You (as the Maker) have the option to engrave your Maker info on the receiver or the barrel, but hardly anyone does the info on the barrel for an AR. I literally have 10+ separate uppers in different calibers and lengths for my SBR lowers. What a pain that would be to mark all of them.

My Rem 870 SBS, on the other hand, has all my Maker's info engraved on the 14" barrel. When I swap back to Title I status, by putting on the 26" VR Skeet barrel, it no longer needs the engraving and I didn't have to mark up the receiver. That was the point, waaaay back in the beginning, someone was trying to make: if you had a pristine, pre-ban (94) receiver, and you didn't want to mark it up, you could go the barrel-engrave route. But that's not your case, and it's too much of a pain to engrave every upper you end up with.

BTW, IMO the NFA Section of ARFCOM is golden, especially anything written by Big Waylon.

Thanks for the info! Perhaps "opinion" is the wrong word. There's differing "input" on every aspect of NFA. The .gov is clear as mud to the average NFA new guy.
 

steve8140

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BTW, IMO the NFA Section of ARFCOM is golden, especially anything written by Big Waylon.
I could not agree more. Tons of good info over there.

One big thing I recommend before jumping into the NFA world is to READ, A LOT!
There is so much info out there and even though the process itself is relatively easy, it’s also very easy to make mistakes when submitting forms.
Enter the make, model, serial numbers exactly how they are on the receiver.

Also make sure to submit a copy of your LTC along with it because the ATF follows state laws. (Real laws and sometime made up laws by our AG).
 
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