Newbie question

[Medic-554]

Hello everyone from Worcester county Ma. So I apologize if this question has ready been posted. I am currently in the Ma circle jerk process of waiting for my mass LTC. Local PD has been great but the state not so much. Anyways while I'm waiting I have been going LGS in my area to get the feel of I might possibly want for an EDC. Online shopping is good to a point but then you need hands on.

I find that some shops allow me to have hands on and others won't . I can't seem to find any laws that state yes or no on unlicensed persons to handle a firearm. Anyone out there have any answers? Thanks in advance!!


Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk - now Free

 

[atilla]

ch.140:

Section 129C. No person, other than a licensed dealer or one who has been issued a license to carry a pistol or revolver or an exempt person as hereinafter described, shall own or possess any firearm, rifle, shotgun or ammunition unless he has been issued a firearm identification card by the licensing authority pursuant to the provisions of section one hundred and twenty-nine B.

No person shall sell, give away, loan or otherwise transfer a rifle or shotgun or ammunition other than (a) by operation of law, or (b) to an exempt person as hereinafter described, or (c) to a licensed dealer, or (d) to a person who displays his firearm identification card, or license to carry a pistol or revolver.

 

[soam]

Hello everyone from Worcester county Ma. So I apologize if this question has ready been posted. I am currently in the Ma circle jerk process of waiting for my mass LTC. Local PD has been great but the state not so much. Anyways while I'm waiting I have been going LGS in my area to get the feel of I might possibly want for an EDC. Online shopping is good to a point but then you need hands on.

I find that some shops allow me to have hands on and others won't . I can't seem to find any laws that state yes or no on unlicensed persons to handle a firearm. Anyone out there have any answers? Thanks in advance!!


Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk - now Free

MGL Chapter 140, Section 129C:

The provisions of this section shall not apply to the following exempted persons and uses:
...
(m) The temporary holding, handling or firing of a firearm for examination, trial or instruction in the presence of a holder of a license to carry firearms, or the temporary holding, handling or firing of a rifle or shotgun for examination, trial or instruction in the presence of a holder of a firearm identification card, or where such holding, handling or firing is for a lawful purpose;

https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section129C

- - - Updated - - -

ch.140:

See exception (m) I quoted.

 

[atilla]

whoops--forgot to include that part. reps for posting further elaboration on MGLs.

it's a yes-and-no answer, really. that's why you'll find some dealers will be cool with it while others may not be.

 

[soam]

Basically, the law says it's fine, but because of the vast amount of confusion and/or misinformation floating around about MA gun laws, some dealers will not let you hold a gun without an FID or LTC. It's no use arguing with them, just don't bother going to those shops until you get your LTC.

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

I used to tell LGS I was waiting for my LTC, and ask if I could check something out. No one said no. They must have known how much I would spend my first year... A lot!

But really, be polite, wait until they are not busy, and be upfront about waiting for LTC. If they say no, find another store. Someone will value your future business and not make up more rules than we already have.

 

[dcmdon]

ch.140:

How was it that the S&W shooting sports center was renting guns to people without a LTC?

By the way, your town is lying to you. The state seems to turn stuff around pretty quickly.

 

[atilla]

How was it that the S&W shooting sports center was renting guns to people without a LTC?

exemption applies.

weren't they closed/shut down as well?

 

[Medic-554]

Damn. Maybe I didn't make it (m). Thanks for the help in clarifying. Looking forward to participating and supporting NES, GOAL AND COMM2a.


Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk - now Free

 

[Cap]

Local PD has been great but the state not so much.

Who gave you that impression? The local PD?

 

[dcmdon]

Exactly. They very nicely say "We're sorry. The state is so so backed up. It will be another 6 months.".

In the mean time, your application sits on a growing pile in the licensing officer's office, waiting to ripen for a few months before they send it in.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Basically, the law says it's fine, but because of the vast amount of confusion and/or misinformation floating around about MA gun laws, some dealers will not let you hold a gun without an FID or LTC. It's no use arguing with them, just don't bother going to those shops until you get your LTC.

Although this is true, I've also been in the situation numerous times where a dealer handed me a firearm to look at (after showing my LTC) and then walked over to help someone else at the long gun counter . . . so I'm no longer "supervised" (not necessary if you have a LTC, but hazardous to the FFL's longevity if it was someone without a LTC). So some shops make an iron-clad policy so they can help multiple customers.

 

[soam]

Although this is true, I've also been in the situation numerous times where a dealer handed me a firearm to look at (after showing my LTC) and then walked over to help someone else at the long gun counter . . . so I'm no longer "supervised" (not necessary if you have a LTC, but hazardous to the FFL's longevity if it was someone without a LTC). So some shops make an iron-clad policy so they can help multiple customers.

However, the exemption says "in the presence of", not "under the supervision of". It could be argued that as long as the person examining the firearm is in the same room as the LTC holder, they are "in the presence of" the LTC holder.

It kind of irks me when a shop has a policy like this and uses a made-up law as the excuse. If they want to have the policy, that's their right, but don't feed me some BS about it being "required by law".

 

[Len-2A Training]

However, the exemption says "in the presence of", not "under the supervision of". It could be argued that as long as the person examining the firearm is in the same room as the LTC holder, they are "in the presence of" the LTC holder.

It kind of irks me when a shop has a policy like this and uses a made-up law as the excuse. If they want to have the policy, that's their right, but don't feed me some BS about it being "required by law".

Fair enough. I agree that I hate them spewing "it is the law" when it clearly is not.

I've had to chase down a clerk to hand a gun back to them in the past, so I do understand why they wouldn't go there for an unlicensed person.

 

[IPSC_DRL]

Who gave you that impression? The local PD?

The internet. They couldn't post it if it wasn't true.

Oh, gotta run, here comes my blind date. She's a French model.

 

[dcmdon]

Although this is true, I've also been in the situation numerous times where a dealer handed me a firearm to look at (after showing my LTC) and then walked over to help someone else at the long gun counter . . . so I'm no longer "supervised" (not necessary if you have a LTC, but hazardous to the FFL's longevity if it was someone without a LTC). So some shops make an iron-clad policy so they can help multiple customers.

So how did S&W get away with renting people guns at the shooting sports center?

There was a range safety officer in the booth, but that hardly qualifies as supervised.

I'm not challenging you. I seriously can't figure out how they reasoned their way into that decision.

Like I said in the old Shooting sports center closure thread, back when I shot IDPA there in the early 2000s they wouldn't even show you a gun unless you had a LTC. Then when I heard people were renting without a license, I was amazed.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Don, at least their ROs were in the range. When I've been at AFS, their staff are usually NOT in the range.

Unsure but I guess until and unless someone squawks or something happens nobody makes an issue of it.