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Newbie Concerns about Internal Safeties

I am a lefty, I found the S&W 4013tsw to best suit mt carry needs. The mag release can be swap over BUT from years of useing the middle finger of my left hand on the mag realease I have become adapted to it. The DA/SA is very comfortable to me. You really need to commit to the 1st pull of the trrigger
 
Here is Timber and I getting ready to shoot his Glock.

EOD_PPE.jpg
 
There are three primary firearm choices for home defense, each has inherent strengths and weaknesses, when looking at a weapon for home defense what are our needs and how are they achieved. When you are shooting someone in self defense you are looking to stop the threat and that can be accomplished with a single shot from a .22 or it can take multiple shots from a rifle, there is no magic caliber or weapon that will guaranty stopping an intruder with a single shot. When someone is shot the body has ways of dealing with the injury. Unless there is a hit to the central nervous system instant incapacitation isn’t likely to stop a determined intruder.
First I will look at handguns
Pros
  1. convenient
  2. Small
  3. Light
  4. maneuverable
Cons
  1. lack power
  2. difficult to shoot well
  3. penetration (excessive)
Handguns seem to be the weapon people seem to think of first when they think of home defense, be it a revolver or a semi-auto pistol , they are small don’t take up a lot of room and are very maneuverable and have stopped many an intruder. The problem I find with handguns is there is a learning curve required to shoot one well. Case in point is my brother we spent many days at the range getting him so he could hit an 8” plate at 15’ there was a lot of ammunition put through that weapon when he finally gave up on handguns in general. Another factor is you will not necessarily be the only one to use that gun for defense. What if your significant other who hasn’t had the chance to practice with the firearm needs to use it?
Next let’s look at shotguns
Pros
  1. larger wound
  2. simple to fire
  3. penetration (walls)
Cons
  1. Difficult to maneuver
  2. storage
  3. requires two hands
Shotguns are normally considered a close range weapon, when shooting at most self defense ranges the shotgun with a 18” barrel is going to have a group about the size of a softball to as large as maybe a basketball in some McMansions if you can put 8 .32 caliber bullets into someone at once you will have done a tremendous amount of damage. Long guns in general are easier to learn to shoot accurately but on the down side they can be tough to maneuver, storage can be a problem and it is tough to use one handed. Another downside is smaller framed people may have a fear of using a “big” shotgun.
Finally let’s look at Rifles (carbines specifically)
Pros
  1. Power
  2. large wound
  3. penetration
Cons
  1. Difficult to maneuver
  2. storage
  3. requires two hands
It has been said if you are going to a gun fight bring a rifle! Rifles are powerful, accurate and easy to use since the down side of a rifle is similar to that of a shotgun I will focus on the pro side of things. The wound created by a rifle is remarkable. I find it amazing at how much damage a little projectile traveling fast can do. I have taken numerous deer with .44 magnum, shotgun and rifle and for pure killing power the rifle wins hands down, despite being a similar projectile to the handgun the penetration can be controlled with proper selection of ammo (this is the case with both handguns and shotguns as well) on top of that due to the velocity of the round they tend to break up easier that the slower moving pistol or shotgun rounds.
Hopefully this will give you some insight in choosing a home defense weapon. Ultimately it will and should come down to what you can shoot well and what you are comfortable with. I have a 12ga locked next to my bed and a .45 either on me or in my nightstand drawer. If I need to barricade myself in my room I will be using the shotgun and the bride will too. If I need to go looking for a prowler the handgun is quick and easy, and if I expect a standoff with zombies I am breaking out the carbine, the choice is yours but don’t choose a weapon just because it is what one person chooses to use after all it is your life in your hands.
 
Boghog1 said:
..snip...
Click to expand...

Thanks for the interesting post.

More than anything, I'd bicker on penetration, however. From what I've seen tested, it would appear to me that handguns tend to only slightly outstrip buckshot in wall penetration (that is, only a few more walls are likely to be penetrated), while rifles penetrate walls immensely more than either. Results may vary in mediums such as water or books, but with common wall material, I've never seen results other than:

rifle rounds > handgun rounds > buckshot loads

I'd be interested to see evidence to the contrary, as I'm not an expert on this.


Either way, if you're using generally accepted self-defense loads, (ie. not Pow-R-Ball, Safety Slugs, or birdshot) you're likely talking about penetrating many, many walls even in best case. You need to always consider your backstop.


EDIT: I'm not sure we should turn this into a home defense thread. Back to internal safeties: most rifles and shotguns that I'm aware of do not have firing-pin blocks, but I'm a handgun guy.
 
Any round that will reliably penetrate a person will also reliably penetrate multiple walls. That is true for handguns, rifles, and shotguns. In fact, with the right rounds, a 5.56 NATO rifle will penetrate less than a 9mm handgun. When it comes to a shotgun, slugs, 00 buck, and even larger shot at close range will penetrate walls. You can find information about that at box 'o truth and elsewhere.
 
Yes! I agree they will all penatrate a wall, of course they will but a round of 00 buck is going to go through fewer walls that a .357sig is going to
And as stated and is considered common knowledge by most the shotgun in not known for its penetration. Will it penetrate a wall yes, it may even penetrate 3 walls but is unlikely to go through 6 walls

Comment from box o truth
Lessons learned:
1. Notice that the #4 and #1 Buck penetrated 6 boards. In previous tests, 9mm, .45 ACP, and M-193 out of an AR all penetrated all 12 boards.

So, it seems that these loads do not "over-penetrate" as much as some have led us to believe.

The 00 Buck penetrated 8 boards, but was stopped by the 9th. Still not as much penetration as the pistol or rifle loads.

The slug penetrated all 12 boards.
Click to expand...
the reason I suggested he look into a shotgun had to do more with his reference to being "new" and "uncomfortable" for some reason people assume or equate home defense weapon with handgun and I offered up a suggestion
 
If I had the choice of being shot at once with a 9mm pistol and once with 00 buck I both in the hands of an inexperienced person I will take my chances ahgainst a 9mm

Bird shot tends to just piss off the real men
 
Wow, I completely missed the guy throwing the lever on the tracks to redirect this train ;)

I don't really disagree that a shotgun would be a better home defense weapon but I am actually looking for a range weapon as well. The shotgun doesn't really fit that bill well in my mind. Maybe Santa brings the shotgun after I buy the handgun!
 
TWtommers said:
Wow, I completely missed the guy throwing the lever on the tracks to redirect this train ;)

I don't really disagree that a shotgun would be a better home defense weapon but I am actually looking for a range weapon as well. The shotgun doesn't really fit that bill well in my mind. Maybe Santa brings the shotgun after I buy the handgun!
Click to expand...

whatever you choose just train with it and you'll be fine.
 
Glocks are great pistols. So are H&Ks, Sig's, Baretta's, FN's, 1911's.

What matters if you can put lead on target.

The best HD weapon is the one you have in reach.
 
I like the pistol as the go to firearm for in home defense because it's there when you need it. Whenever you feel the need you can strap it on and go about your business. It could get awkward opening the front door brandishing a shotty only to find the girl scouts selling cookies.

Don't get me wrong, it's nice to have options, but for around the house response the pistole is my choice.
 
As a lefty you might look at the HK P30 or HK 45 depending on the caliber you want. they have totally ambidextrous controls and depending on the version you get, can have a safety or simply a DA/SA. I will second everyone's motion that training is the key to not having an accident. Even a gun with a manual safety can have an AD if the operator isn't competent.
When looking for your first gun, I would suggest going with something that is comfortable for you...any modern gun out there is as safe as the person running it. I went with the HK and then trained hard with it. If you are going to be carrying, my belief is that it is your duty to practice and get good. I have thousands of rounds down range and a handful of competitions but still consider myself a newb.
good luck!
 

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