New York Times article on Project Appleseed

I'll give you the colloquial version:

"Our forefathers knew how to shoot their muskets at distance and used those muskets to kill .gov infringers of their liberty. We appreciate that commitment and sacrafice, and will teach you the skills to that if liberty is infringed upon again."

That's the implication.

There is no shame or illegality in doing that. You should be proud of it and proclaim it.

This.
 
The video was made by a guy who went to an Appleseed, filmed it, and edited it himself.

The article was written by a guy who went to Appleeed, wrote it, and then spent a year doing rewrites because the editors told him to.

The difference is plain as day.

To the person who asked, we have 500+ yard ranges in Jericho and Bennington VT.

Did anyone within Appleseed get to see the original article?
 
They had a back and forth going with Fred as different pieces of the article got bolted on. None of us saw a version of the entire article until it was posted on the online NYT Magazine but we had a good idea of how it was (d)evolving.
 
Where do you find a 500yd range?
Reading Rifle & Revolver has a 600 yard range.

I have been interviewed by the NY Times, at length. The reporter didn't slant my words, or take them slightly out of context. Instead, he just made things up that were diametrically opposed to what I said. Anyone dealing with the media has my sympathies.

Concerning project Appleseed, I haven't been to it, but it sounds great.

That said, I used to be a subscriber to Shotgun News. I dropped the subscription precisely due to "Fred's" lunatic ads concerning shooting at Blue Helmets, etc. The fact that he is involved in Appleseed gives me great pause. Frankly, I thought his ads were unhinged and borderline sedition.
 
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Frankly, I thought his ads were unhinged and borderline sedition.
How is killing foreign invaders sedition?

Is this sedition?
Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.
He has refused for a long time, after such disolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.
He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.
He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.
He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.
He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.
He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences
For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:
For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.
He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.
 
Hey crak, can we push for a winter boot camp at one of these ranges?


If you just want to learn how to shoot a rifle and can do without the history lessons you could always attend a CMP high power rifle clinic.

http://clubs.odcmp.com/cgi-bin/matchUpcomingSearch.cgi?designation=CLINIC

There's one at Cape Ann in September. Learn the basics, then get out on the highpower circuit.

09/26/10 - CMP High Power Rifle Clinic And Match (3rd of 4)

This clinic will consist of about two hours of classroom instruction (marksmanship, operation, maintenance, etc.) using various US service rifles, followed by live firing of a full CMP/DCM match (50 scored rounds, 3 positions, slow and rapid fire). CMP Certificates of Completion will be issued, and participants will qualify for the purchase of CMP M1 Garand rifle. Sign-up begins at 8:30AM at the clubhouse. The match fees are listed below. Loaner rifles (M1's and a few AR-15's) will be available if we know you are coming. Juniors have first call on the loaner AR-15's. This clinic is open to the public and limited to 30 shooters.

For more info, email to [email protected].
 
Nashua has a 600 yard range too.

Fred agrees with you that the UN stuff was stupid. The NYT ran an article last week about the value of being able to jettison your past once you've honestly changed. So I'm sure their hearts are heavy to hear of his plight. [smile]

To answer those concerned about what happens when you connect all the Appleseed dots, let me add a key dot many are overlooking. The Revolution sucked for the people who lived through it, and many of the key players on that first day didn't make it through to the end. Here's a list mostly off the top of my head:

Capt. John Parker
Capt. Isaac Davis
Dr. Jospeh Warren
Rev. William Emerson
Dr. Samuel Prescott
Abel Prescott
Nathanial Mulliken
Jonathan Harrington
Caleb Harrington
Robert Munroe
John Brown
Ashael Porter
Samuel Hadley
Isaac Muzzey
Jonas Parker
Luther Blanchard
Abner Hosmer
Daniel Thompson
Jason Russell
Seven Danvers men in his yard
Deacon Josiah Haynes

Every person on that list has his story told over the course of an Appleseed weekend. The endings aren't happy, and that's just who we have time for. None got to live a single day in the America they died for, but we do. It would be a shame to waste it.

Not exactly a rousing call to arms, if you ask me.

One of the smarmy NYT commenters asked "And who gets to decide who gets to fire the first shot in the next Revolution?" If I cared enough to register over there, my answer would be "Whoever's stupid enough to be in the wrong." And the same generation of people who are too lazy to do the maintenance on the Republic the easy way would never be able to win it all over again the hard way. Don't let that generation be yours.
 
If you just want to learn how to shoot a rifle and can do without the history lessons you could always attend a CMP high power rifle clinic.

I think ed likes the history lessons at least a little bit. The highpower circuit is a real cool place. Nothing like competition to put things into focus real quick! [smile]
 
why do you extoll the virtues, and teach the history, of people who were "stupid enough to be in the wrong" then? more evidence of a mixed message in my humble opinion.

They did not fire the first shots. On three separate occasions in just one day!

In fact, the men of Lexington and Acton paid dearly for their discipline. Thanks for allowing me the opportunity to clarify, that's an important point.
 
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I'm sorry, but I think it was worse than stupid, and I don't trust that this particular zebra has lost his stripes.

Fair enough.

And honestly, if you're going to go out there and claim you're waking people up to change the Republic via peaceful means, you'd be better off teaching them about redistricting, carpooling to the polls, how to write letters, and engage in lawsuits, than you are playing soldier and shooting paper redcoats on the weekends or for a week of "boot camp."

If you really do come up with a better way I'll do it, but this is the best I can think of at the moment. If you get enough people exercising a liberty and emotionally invested in it, they're not going to fall for whatever the next attack on that liberty is. It's more a strategy than a tactic. Seems to work well for Free Speech.

There is a letter writing component to Appleseed, but to be honest I think it puts people to sleep. Wish it didn't, so we'll keep doing it.
 
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I think ed likes the history lessons at least a little bit. The highpower circuit is a real cool place. Nothing like competition to put things into focus real quick! [smile]

I'm all about getting into high power, once I get my life back in line and finish my service rifle build. [wink] I do like the history, plus those boot camps are several days of shooting.
 
And honestly, if you're going to go out there and claim you're waking people up to change the Republic via peaceful means, you'd be better off teaching them about redistricting, carpooling to the polls, how to write letters, and engage in lawsuits, than you are playing soldier and shooting paper redcoats on the weekends or for a week of "boot camp."
Spot on!
 
I think ed likes the history lessons at least a little bit. The highpower circuit is a real cool place. Nothing like competition to put things into focus real quick! [smile]

Let me rephrase that: "If your primary interest is learning how to shoot a rifle and you don't mind missing out on the other aspects of Appleseed...consider attending a CMP clinic." To be clear I have absolutely no beef with Appleseed.

And yes, high power competition continues to be an eye opener for me. Some guys make it look easy, I'm not one of them. [grin]


Edit: And if you really want to go to boot camp --> http://www.marines.com/main/index/making_marines/recruit_training/marine-bootcamp. [wink]
 
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Yeah, marketing the week-long courses as boot camps is probably as unfortunate as it is irresistable to the kind of people who come up with marketing terms. Everybody's got a boot camp these days. Yoga, C programming, cooking, and on and on... And that's why you won't see me calling our Instructor Courses boot camps. [smile]

Timber, I think the message is complex rather than mixed, but I respect your stance. We're all not going to come to the same answer or even the same priority for the best way to preserve liberty. That's cool. It's a big job and it takes all kinds.
 
I've never been a fan of the program. At the best they probably do teach some decent marksmanship fundamentals, at the worst it's rhetoric is insufferable and insulting.

BTW, we make our own history in HP. [smile] I have my own history book of every match I've ever competed in.

B
 
Furthermore, in a time when US troops were engaged in war abroad on our behalf, he was talking about shooting US troops. That, in my mind, was edging pretty damn close to sedition.

I get it. You would tolerate this on US soil again. Or you might write a strongly worded letter to the editor.

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Let me rephrase that: "If your primary interest is learning how to shoot a rifle and you don't mind missing out on the other aspects of Appleseed...consider attending a CMP clinic."
Great advice. I've been to a couple CMP clinics. Great fun, learned a lot, and ridiculously cheap.

And yes, high power competition continues to be an eye opener for me. Some guys make it look easy, I'm not one of them. [grin]
Nor I.

[quoteEdit: And if you really want to go to boot camp --> http://www.marines.com/main/index/making_marines/recruit_training/marine-bootcamp. [wink]
Let me know when they start looking for 50-year-old mouse-potato programmers, and I'll be all over that [wink]
 
I get it. You would tolerate this on US soil again.
Kent State. Yup, that was more than 30 years ago. I don't exactly see a repeat coming soon.

There are a whole bunch of internet tough guys like you banging their chests about how they hope a revolution starts soon. Well, put your bullets where your mouth is, march yourself off to your local FBI/ATF/.gov office and start your revolution. In the unlikely even that you last more than 15 minutes, you'll find that 1) the revolution isn't starting now, and 2) if it did, it would be far, far more horrible than you could ever imagine.

But you can continue to beat your chest and claim how much tougher and braver you are than anyone else, because you're a Minuteman ready start the war. Sure. Whatever, dude. Keep saying that often enough and loud enough and you might almost believe it. Me? Not so much.

Given the most recent elections and Supreme Court decisions, I'm more than willing to keep working within the system, trying to make incremental improvements.
 
Given the most recent elections and Supreme Court decisions, I'm more than willing to keep working within the system, trying to make incremental improvements.
Keep enjoying the Soma. I bet it tastes good.

As for the rest of your drivel, the die will be cast in due time.
 
Carlos Hathcock made it look easy. [grin]

Some people have raw talent and Carlos was one of them, thank G_d! I had a student for the Boston Moon Island test, first time shooting a revolver and he scored 96% (50 shots) with me. His Moon Island score was one point off his score with me! The guy has talent. It's probably no coincidence that his job requires very highly precise work with his hands.


Kent State. Yup, that was more than 30 years ago.

Rip Van 1911, would you believe 40 years ago? [wink]
 
CMP Clinics are good, but it's going to take a bunch of them to get to where we'll take you.

And, this is, in no way, shape, form or manner a dig on CMP Clinics. They do have very good uses ,as mentioned.

The biggest difference is in the amount of practice you will get. The competence level of Appleseed Instructors is a minimum of real good across the board, but like everything else, some are going to be really good. 60 rounds versus 600 rounds, which will get the basics set into your muscle memory faster?

I've known of CMP Clinics where the only instruction you got was if one of the more experienced shooters near you happened to point something out. I'm sure many are better than that. I certainly hope so.

Appleseed, on the other hand, runs a set Program of Instruction (Course of Fire may and will vary for each event), that requires certain items to be taught. Some of those things you probably will not find at a CMP Clinic, as CMP does not teach them. NPOA comes to mind, right on the top of the list.

So, I'll tell you they BOTH have their purposes.

And, competition will certainly hone your skills. I am an ex-competitor myself, Bench Rest, Smallbore and Skeet over the years.

If you just want to learn how to shoot a rifle and can do without the history lessons you could always attend a CMP high power rifle clinic.

http://clubs.odcmp.com/cgi-bin/matchUpcomingSearch.cgi?designation=CLINIC

There's one at Cape Ann in September. Learn the basics, then get out on the highpower circuit.
 
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