New Resident NH Permit to Carry

eColi

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I recently bought a new house in NH, a town right on the border of MA. I currently have my MA Concealed Carry (No Restrictions) and NH Non-Resident Permit.

2 weeks ago I dropped off my applications for resident permit to the police station. I get a call today saying the Chief would like to speak with me regarding my permit.

Is there anything I should be worried about? I have multiple firearms (including SBR), active licenses in MA and NH and a VAF UPIN... what's the deal?

Are they just wanting me to take time out of my workday to come discuss face to face?
 
I really don't understand why you (and others, I'm not singling you out) want to give the state money when NH is Constitutional carry and the permits aren't NICS exemptions. There is literally no reason...
 
Thanks! Left 2 voicemails so far, she must be extremely busy!

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Correct. I travel to MA 50% of the time for work.
 
Thanks! Left 2 voicemails so far, she must be extremely busy!

Leave him one more message.

"It looks like we are both very busy at the moment, and I know you have a time-limit on issuing the permit. So for now I think we should just get the permit done and perhaps at some point in the future we can meetup and chat."

Delivers the message politely and makes it clear you know about the time limit and that meeting with him is not a requirement.

On the other hand, maybe you missed something on the application and he just wants to help.

You never know.
 
I really don't understand why you (and others, I'm not singling you out) want to give the state money when NH is Constitutional carry and the permits aren't NICS exemptions. There is literally no reason...

Because you STILL need a P/R license for:

NH Reciprocity with other states that honor it (there are a ton now, particularly for actual NH residents)
GFSZ Exemption (carry in school/school zone- cause federal law)
Carry on an ATV in NH legally
Facilitator for private sales of handguns (as a NH resident buyer, having a P/R license bypasses the "buyer must be known to you" thing)

There's probably a couple others I'm missing.

ETA: Another obvious one, when applying for other licenses out of state, some states may use your home state license as a building block or "proof" of something; eg, lack of a criminal record. For example VT residents have a pain in the ass with this because they have no permit- so the remote licensing authority has no "seed" to start your license off of. (basically a guarantee that the locals don't have any criminal record on you etc. ) obviously this varies by state. In the case of VT residents a lot of people obtain a criminal records printout from the local PD and send it to the remote and this often times will get the remote to not whine.

-Mike
 
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Most awesome thing about this whole NH living is right after work I'm going to pick up my new Aero .308 builders set with no regard to a permit or what Chiefs has to say [smile]

October-aero-dazzle-1600x700.jpg
 
GFSZA is a toss up since there's no requirement for it to be done by popo......it can be done by selectman or appointee

It's not a toss up in my book. Your mileage may vary but I've seen cases where the feds had an opportunity to test before (eg, press charges) but they don't. That's going to be a hard sell (read, nearly impossible) to a jury and the feds know it. It also doesn't help the feds that seemingly all, or nearly all? of the P/R licenses in NH are issued by police departments.

-Mike
 
The problem is that the law is the law.....and its only a matter of time before someone gets around to pushing the limit and enforcing it as written.

Who wants to be the test case?

No me.....

There will be no test case because there's been several opportunities for it and it hasn't happened. I guarantee that if you went and had coffee with whoever the USA/AUSA is for NH they would told you what I just told you. This is the type of law like USC 922R. There was a dude on falfiles that put out a $1000 bounty on someone who could find him a standalone USC 922R conviction , on just some guy who modified his rifle. As far as I know the reward went unclaimed. There's a handful of federal gun laws that have incongruities built into them that either violate other legal precepts or, at some point, violate the reasonable person principle. (eg, a Jury won't suck for interpretation because a reasonable person would not interpret the spirit and intent of the law that way. ) This is one of them. Since people started talking about this fake issue 10+ years ago, there have been several people bagged at NH schools with firearms in their cars, and none of them have been referred to the feds for prosecution, and in a couple cases the feds were aware that there was a gun on school grounds. Not even the dude that had a gun in his truck on school grounds at a school in NH where Obama was going to speak.

-Mike
 
It's not a toss up in my book. Your mileage may vary but I've seen cases where the feds had an opportunity to test before (eg, press charges) but they don't. That's going to be a hard sell (read, nearly impossible) to a jury and the feds know it. It also doesn't help the feds that seemingly all, or nearly all? of the P/R licenses in NH are issued by police departments.

-Mike

That's the definition of a toss-up: it is technically not within the law, but they choose to not prosecute it.

Since the first GFSZA was overturned, it was (barely) modified and re-enacted. You're right that it's never prosecuted in clean cases, but I have seen instances where it was added on as plea bait in serious felony drug cases. It's also used to determine sentencing points, which don't even require a conviction on that particular charge, just a finding of "conduct of the crime".

Sorry that I can't cite any particular cases. I retired in 2014 after dealing with more case files than I care to recall.
 
She called me back and was very pleasant. Only wanted me to come in because she was newly appointed and still getting the hang of the process. Granted, I do have some past baddies on my report so I'd question them also.

Did not end up having to go in and got my license next day.
 
That's the definition of a toss-up: it is technically not within the law, but they choose to not prosecute it.

Since the first GFSZA was overturned, it was (barely) modified and re-enacted. You're right that it's never prosecuted in clean cases, but I have seen instances where it was added on as plea bait in serious felony drug cases. It's also used to determine sentencing points, which don't even require a conviction on that particular charge, just a finding of "conduct of the crime".

Sorry that I can't cite any particular cases. I retired in 2014 after dealing with more case files than I care to recall.

I have no doubt that it's been used in dozens of other cases for leverage, etc. Particularly drug cases where they caught some guy on school grounds (or within the GFSZ radius) with drugs and a gun, etc.

It's just that I doubt (and would even wager money on) it never being used in the context that we're talking about here. Mainly because I don't think USA/AUSAs are that dumb to know that its something that would blow up directly in their face. No jury is going to suck for something that is that illogical. It's plainly obvious what the real intent of that part of the law was, too, and if the permit satisfies that intent, then there is no "crime".

This isn't the only federal gun law that's broken like this. I've never heard of that law that says an "FFL must obey the laws of the state of residence on long guns" garbage to be enforced, either, at least not at the level of a real court case. BATFE probably uses it as a wedge administratively to force compliance though... but they don't really want that particular garbage scow to go very far in federal court, because the way that law is constructed it likely is either unconstitutional or it violates other commonly accepted tenets of law in the US.

Same thing with USC 922R, although I think in that case most gun owners misinterpret that one- a strict reading of 922R makes it painfully obvious the law is really only directed at importers or manufacturers (and as far as I know, it's only ever been enforced that way) yet every other gun owner shits their pants over it for no good reason.

Thus, this whole "Well, its invalid because NH could possibly maybe issue a PRL by the hand of someone who isn't a cop, but actually never does that" stuff, is in the realm of "If it weren't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college...."

-Mike
 
Because you STILL need a P/R license for:

NH Reciprocity with other states that honor it (there are a ton now, particularly for actual NH residents)
GFSZ Exemption (carry in school/school zone- cause federal law)
Carry on an ATV in NH legally
Facilitator for private sales of handguns (as a NH resident buyer, having a P/R license bypasses the "buyer must be known to you" thing)

There's probably a couple others I'm missing.

ETA: Another obvious one, when applying for other licenses out of state, some states may use your home state license as a building block or "proof" of something; eg, lack of a criminal record. For example VT residents have a pain in the ass with this because they have no permit- so the remote licensing authority has no "seed" to start your license off of. (basically a guarantee that the locals don't have any criminal record on you etc. ) obviously this varies by state. In the case of VT residents a lot of people obtain a criminal records printout from the local PD and send it to the remote and this often times will get the remote to not whine.

-Mike

Can you (or someone else) please explain the GFSZ Exemption.. I heard of this awhile back but never actually saw where it was passed and is now a NH law. My polling place is in a school so I would be interested to actually see the law.. and I thought state law can't trump federal law? is that not true..

Thanks in advance
 
Can you (or someone else) please explain the GFSZ Exemption.. I heard of this awhile back but never actually saw where it was passed and is now a NH law. My polling place is in a school so I would be interested to actually see the law.. and I thought state law can't trump federal law? is that not true..

Thanks in advance

This is Fed Law, not state law. The text can be found in the 1st column, pg. 15 of the following document (ATF Pub 5300.4, 2014):
https://www.atf.gov/file/11241/download
(2)(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone. (B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm— (i) on private property not part of school grounds; (ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license; (iii) that is— (I) not loaded; and (II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle; (iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school in the school zone; (v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in the school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual; (vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity; or (vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school premises is authorized by school authorities.
 
Can you (or someone else) please explain the GFSZ Exemption.. I heard of this awhile back but never actually saw where it was passed and is now a NH law. My polling place is in a school so I would be interested to actually see the law.. and I thought state law can't trump federal law? is that not true..

Thanks in advance

Unlike MA, NH does not have a RSA that prevents lawful carry of firearms on school grounds. As such, the federal GFSZA is the only applicable law which has an exception for a locally issued Permit/License. Various agencies including the NH State Police, NH AG's office, the FBI, and I think even the ATF have stated (last time was around election time where most of the polling places are in/on school grounds) that the exception applies to NH issued permits/licenses (resident and non resident).
 
Can the PD hold up issuing the permit so they can hear back from the references that they required on the app and sent a written questionnaire out to, this sounds like it is over and above the law
 
Can the PD hold up issuing the permit so they can hear back from the references that they required on the app and sent a written questionnaire out to, this sounds like it is over and above the law
They have 14 days to either issue or give notice of denying your F&R (with the reason).

No one on my list of references was contacted when I got my P&R in June of 2016. The PD also issued it in less than 24 hours from when I dropped it off (IIRC it was about 6pm on the first day, was called before 5pm the following day that it was ready for pickup).
 
Can the PD hold up issuing the permit so they can hear back from the references that they required on the app and sent a written questionnaire out to, this sounds like it is over and above the law

No they can't. The law allows 14 days to approve or deny; there's no "extra time" allowance to hear back from references.
 
Can the PD hold up issuing the permit so they can hear back from the references that they required on the app and sent a written questionnaire out to, this sounds like it is over and above the law

Nope.
Politely remind them of the deadline, then call a lawyer.
 
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