New License to Carry Application Advisory

[JAD]

The problem with your theory is that chiefs don't work for/report to the MSP Colonel nor to the governor. Just like when AG Harshbarger tried to order local chiefs to confiscate FFLs from those operating from their residences. I had two chiefs tell me that the AG could go F himself as the chief doesn't answer to him.

This will be an interesting experiment, but it won't force chiefs to do anything. And the Colonel currently has a clerical person handling licensing of dealers/instructors/etc. so it would likely be shuffled off to her and then perhaps to the FRB Director, assuming that the MSP took any action on the applications.

It's also important to remember that MSP delegated the processing of of non-resident temporary LTC's under MGL c. 140 s. 131F to FRB (over a decade ago). (Though MSP is the identified issuing authority on those, the process, including the decision to issue, deny, or revoke is handled by FRB).

Interestingly, and theoretically at least, the temporary license statute (131F) could also provide an avenue to licensure to residents who live outside the jurisdiction of a local licensing authority.

to a nonresident or any person not falling within the jurisdiction of a local licensing authority or to an alien that resides outside the commonwealth for purposes of firearms competition and subject to such terms and conditions as said colonel may deem proper

(color added for emphasis)

I have no clue as to whether, or not, a license has ever been processed for a resident under that section or if they have even promulgated an application form for that purpose (or if there are currently any towns without a local licensing authority)....

 

[LuvDog]

The only problem with this is.... what happens if MSP decides to do this, and then consequently issues a restricted LTC to a first timer, and essentially gives the applicant an unwanted case of LTC AIDS? (That's what I call this, it's essentially a 6 year long prison herpes/aids sentence to someone's LTC, unless they just say f*** it and ignore the restriction. )

They could wait X? months for the PD to open back up, or take this other maneuver and potentially risk getting LTC AIDS.... calculated risk I guess.

That's why I was wondering if anyone know the MSP people who would be doing the review and assignment. If they are green friendly, then maybe it's a better option than some towns.

 

[drgrant]

It's also important to remember that MSP delegated the processing of of non-resident temporary LTC's under MGL c. 140 s. 131F to FRB (over a decade ago). (Though MSP is the identified issuing authority on those, the process, including the decision to issue, deny, or revoke is handled by FRB).

Interestingly, and theoretically at least, the temporary license statute (131F) could also provide an avenue to licensure to residents who live outside the jurisdiction of a local licensing authority.

(color added for emphasis)

I have no clue as to whether, or not, a license has ever been processed for a resident under that section or if they have even promulgated an application form for that purpose (or if there are currently any towns without a local licensing authority)....

I don't think there are any unincorporated areas of mass, to the best of my knowledge. The 351 cities and towns all belong to something.

The closest that ever happened was Devens, wonder where one who lives there goes to get an LTC...

-Mike

 

[JAD]

I don't think there are any unincorporated areas of mass, to the best of my knowledge. The 351 cities and towns all belong to something.

The closest that ever happened was Devens, wonder where one who lives there goes to get an LTC...

-Mike

I was aware that Massachusetts is similar to Connecticut in that all towns abut one another, without unincorporated areas. Down here, many smaller towns don't maintain local police departments, and opt to rely on CSP to handle their needs, with permits then statutorily defaulting to the 1st selectman. I was under the impression that one of MSP's functions was handling policing in towns without a PD- which is why I was wondering if that provision was more vestigial, or if there is some other way that c. 140 s.131 licensing authority status is delegated in those towns, OR if there are no towns in that sort of situation.

 

[drgrant]

I was aware that Massachusetts is similar to Connecticut in that all towns abut one another, without unincorporated areas. Down here, many smaller towns don't maintain local police departments, and opt to rely on CSP to handle their needs, with permits then statutorily defaulting to the 1st selectman. I was under the impression that one of MSP's functions was handling policing in towns without a PD- which is why I was wondering if that provision was more vestigial, or if there is some other way that c. 140 s.131 licensing authority status is delegated in those towns, OR if there are no towns in that sort of situation.

Devens is, or at least was, patrolled by MSP, I think its some subfunction of troop C, but I don't have the details.

 

[CrackPot]

I don't think there are any unincorporated areas of mass, to the best of my knowledge. The 351 cities and towns all belong to something.

The closest that ever happened was Devens, wonder where one who lives there goes to get an LTC...

-Mike

Devens is still within the boundaries of Harvard, Ayer, Shirley and Lancaster. Harvard issues because all the residential is inside Harvard. They vote in Harvard too but pay “taxes” to Devens.

 

[CatSnoutSoup]

Still think the filing of a law suit(s) is weeks overdue.

 

[looser38]

no, the woman, forget her name retired last year. this guy, mason, got the job last november

Whewwww, I was having a flashback of yesterday, the whole headless Christopher Columbus statue with tits thing.

 

[looser38]

I may be seeing things where they do not exist, but I see this as a strategy. All the sudden, the colonel gets hundreds if not thousands of requests. She puts pressure of the unwanted work load onto the governor who will put pressure back on the local COP.
The colonel can not be bothered with work that a mere chief of police could and should handle.

She is a he dammit!!!!

 

[308rifleman]

The only problem with this is.... what happens if MSP decides to do this, and then consequently issues a restricted LTC to a first timer, and essentially gives the applicant an unwanted case of LTC AIDS? (That's what I call this, it's essentially a 6 year long prison herpes/aids sentence to someone's LTC, unless they just say f*** it and ignore the restriction. )

They could wait X? months for the PD to open back up, or take this other maneuver and potentially risk getting LTC AIDS.... calculated risk I guess.

An LTC applicant who tries to go the MSP route could potentially create a whole lot of animosity with the local LO. If the LO gets pissed off enough, he/she may start restricting all LTCs in their bailiwick (except those held by LEOs, of course!) or adding extra requirements such as registered recommendation letters from one board-certified psychiatrist, one family-practitioner MD and one Indian chief. Anything to make it more difficult for the applicant.

 

[StevieP]

Seriously?! Some of you are worried about mailing an application as being a "hostile action?" People are BURNING buildings and KILLING people. If everyone rolls over and just let's them strip you of your rights "because covid" then you deserve what you get.

FYI I put my money where my mouth is and moved the phuck out of MA three years ago. Moved 800 miles away from my own kids in order to create a new life in a free state rather than stay in MA wherebthe dems have a supermajority and conservatism is practically frowned upon.

I asked the question because I don't want to see you guys get teabagged by the Commonwealth for trying to pull an end run around the "Standard Operating Procedure" when it IS a valid workaround.

 

[Dennis in MA]

I may be seeing things where they do not exist, but I see this as a strategy. All the sudden, the colonel gets hundreds if not thousands of requests. She puts pressure of the unwanted work load onto the governor who will put pressure back on the local COP.
The colonel can not be bothered with work that a mere chief of police could and should handle.

Well they could just go Constitutional Carry and be done with the whole burdensome system. Those poor overworked bureaucrats. I'd even be OK if they didn't lower my taxes when they instituted it. Keep your fat-cat salaries all around.

 

[drgrant]

An LTC applicant who tries to go the MSP route could potentially create a whole lot of animosity with the local LO. If the LO gets pissed off enough, he/she may start restricting all LTCs in their bailiwick (except those held by LEOs, of course!) or adding extra requirements such as registered recommendation letters from one board-certified psychiatrist, one family-practitioner MD and one Indian chief. Anything to make it more difficult for the applicant.

Lol if the LO isn't issuing what do they care- not issuing is the ultimate form of obstructionist BS.

 

[inkdesigner]

Because CT comes under the Second Circuit plus this was a District Court decision. There's no reason such as case can't be file here, but there's no guarantee it would succeed.

Wouldn't you have to file lawsuits against individual towns and, if you win like in CT, would need the judge to decree that his/her decision is binding on ALL cities and towns in MA, not just the one you sued? You could sue the state, but their out would be that issuance of an LTC is at the COP (or designated LO) discretion and they have no say on it.

 

[CrackPot]

An LTC applicant who tries to go the MSP route could potentially create a whole lot of animosity with the local LO. If the LO gets pissed off enough, he/she may start restricting all LTCs in their bailiwick (except those held by LEOs, of course!) or adding extra requirements such as registered recommendation letters from one board-certified psychiatrist, one family-practitioner MD and one Indian chief. Anything to make it more difficult for the applicant.

Might be the exact opposite. Most towns hate that they have to do all the work for an LTC and get to keep $25 for their efforts. It is a money losing proposition. If they can get their residents to all apply to the state instead, they will likely count it as a win.

 

[drgrant]

Might be the exact opposite. Most towns hate that they have to do all the work for an LTC and get to keep $25 for their efforts. It is a money losing proposition. If they can get their residents to all apply to the state instead, they will likely count it as a win.

I think when it comes to douche towns in MA 80% of them are douchey just because they don't want to be involved in the perceived "burden" of issuing LTCs, the other 20% are antis.

-Mike

 

[free]

New License to Carry Application Advisory

Over the past months, GOAL has been contacted countless times from citizens looking to acquire their first License to Carry in the Commonwealth. During the COVID-19 era most cities and towns have been good about processing renewals. Some municipalities are refusing to process any applications. Most of the problems have come from the majority of local authorities refusing to process new applications. The excuse has been that it is not safe to conduct initial interviews and obtain fingerprints. If your local licensing authority is refusing to process your License to Carry (only LTCs) there is another option under the law.

Here is what GOAL is recommending:

In accordance with MGL C.140 § 131(d) you may submit your LTC application to either your local authority or to the Colonel of the Massachusetts State Police (MSP). If your local licensing authority is refusing to process your LTC application, GOAL is recommending that you send your completed application to the Colonel of the MSP. Residents of the Commonwealth are allowed to do so under Chapter 140, Section 131(d).

Below is the specific legal citation:

C.140 section 131(d) Any person residing or having a place of business within the jurisdiction of the licensing authority or any law enforcement officer employed by the licensing authority or any person residing in an area of exclusive federal jurisdiction located within a city or town may submit to the licensing authority or the colonel of state police, an application for a Class A license to carry firearms, or renewal of the same, which the licensing authority or the colonel may issue if it appears that the applicant is not a prohibited person, as set forth in this section, to be issued a license and has good reason to fear injury to the applicant or the applicant's property or for any other reason, including the carrying of firearms for use in sport or target practice only, subject to the restrictions expressed or authorized under this section.

Your completed application and $100 check made out to The Commonwealth of Massachusetts should be mailed to the below address:

Colonel Christopher Mason
Massachusetts State Police
Attention Firearm Licensing
470 Worcester Road,
Framingham, MA 01702


Please keep GOAL informed as to any progress or response from the State Police should you forward your application to them.

Goal: Your “advisory” is a bunch of BS.

What qualifies you to give this “recommendation?”

It seems not a sure and good route to take. But dont let that take the wind out if your sails. We need better info and support from GOAL. Thanks.

 

[voidoid]

I don't think there are any unincorporated areas of mass, to the best of my knowledge. The 351 cities and towns all belong to something.

The closest that ever happened was Devens, wonder where one who lives there goes to get an LTC...

-Mike

Actually, MA does have unincorporated areas such as the unincorporated village of Satan's Kingdom. However, I believe the residents there are actually all residents of the town of Northfield since Satan's Kingdom sits entirely within Northfield.

It's also quite a nice WMA and some decent hunting grounds.

 

[Glockster30]

Goal: Your “advisory” is a bunch of BS.

What qualifies you to give this “recommendation?”

It seems not a sure and good route to take. But dont let that take the wind out if your sails. We need better info and support from GOAL. Thanks.

MGL C.140 § 131(d)?

 

[CrackPot]

Goal: Your “advisory” is a bunch of BS.

What qualifies you to give this “recommendation?”

It seems not a sure and good route to take. But dont let that take the wind out if your sails. We need better info and support from GOAL. Thanks.

Where is that negative rep button again?

 

[SeanT]

This might have been a good option with my first LTC. I applied and was granted a restricted license in Milton after jumping through numerous extra hoops and being squeaky clean. If I applied through MSP and could have gotten unrestricted, I certainly would have done that.

Now I’m out west where Green is the norm rather than the exception.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

This is tilting at windmills - the only thing you will accomplish sending an app to the MSP is:

1) they will be ignored and discarded

or

2) the MSP will create a form letter and return it, and possibly the application, stating they do not process these and the application is being returned / not accepted

This might have been a good option with my first LTC. I

No, it is not an option. See above.

You will get pretty good and knowing what to expect with this sort of technique once you have been in the game for a while.

 

[Broc]

1. This is very interesting.

2. This could be a work around for those people in Lowell, Brockton, Boston... and other commie cities. Specially Boston, I guess they would not need to do the shooting test.

It will be interesting to see what happens.

 

[Broc]

This is tilting at windmills - the only thing you will accomplish sending an app to the MSP is:

1) they will be ignored and discarded

or

2) the MSP will create a form letter and return it, and possibly the application, stating they do not process these and the application is being returned / not accepted


No, it is not an option. See above.

You will get pretty good and knowing what to expect with this sort of technique once you have been in the game for a while.

Looks like peoples options are:

1. Wait for a magical date when the State is supposed to re-open and hope your licensing officer is not buried in 100s of applications and gives you an appointment in 6 months.

2. Send an application to the MSP, with the wording of the law attached, and maybe get it back (most likely before the local LEO starts accepting new applications again).

I dont see a downside. Unless the MSP accepts to process the application and gives you LTC AIDS, as DrGrant calls it.

 

[jeepchute]

This is tilting at windmills - the only thing you will accomplish sending an app to the MSP is:

1) they will be ignored and discarded

or

2) the MSP will create a form letter and return it, and possibly the application, stating they do not process these and the application is being returned / not accepted


No, it is not an option. See above.

You will get pretty good and knowing what to expect with this sort of technique once you have been in the game for a while.

Isn't that the point? To prove the town is infringing because the legal alternative will be shown to not be available?

Feel like I am way out of place talking any of this legal stuff with you, but that is an honest question. If I wanted to sue my town to force them to process applications, right now they could easily shut it down with a quick reference to that law saying there is an alternative. Now, if MSP also refused, now I have TWO valid cases instead of none. Is it worth the postage and sending them an application and check via certified mail?

 

[42!]

Isn't that the point? To prove the town is infringing because the legal alternative will be shown to not be available?

Feel like I am way out of place talking any of this legal stuff with you, but that is an honest question. If I wanted to sue my town to force them to process applications, right now they could easily shut it down with a quick reference to that law saying there is an alternative. Now, if MSP also refused, now I have TWO valid cases instead of none. Is it worth the postage and sending them an application and check via certified mail?

Yup, if anyone was to sue because they can't apply at their local PD, the first thing they will do is point out that the plaintiff didn't exhaust his legal options because an alternative existed, as defined in the law.
There was a case about an LTC being denied, but the plaintiff hadn't even tried for a permit to purchase and despite one of these having never been issued, the alternative existed so he was SOL.

I still think it should be tried, I'd like to see the results. When I had my LTC "issue" I thought going through the SPD might be a better tactic, but several people who seemed to know, said I couldn't do that. Or at the least my app would be returned and they would tell me to go to my local PD. Some of the same people who have commented here. Eventual I just gave up on MA and moved.

If anyone does go the SPD route, please please please let me know the results.

 

[Lank]

Police work by its nature is a risky job. If the teenager bagging groceries all weekend can work the police should be able to perform civil services.

PDs shouldn't be a part of the licensing process, which is designed to be an infringement from the start.

 

[Coyote33]

I may be seeing things where they do not exist, but I see this as a strategy. All the sudden, the colonel gets hundreds if not thousands of requests. She puts pressure of the unwanted work load onto the governor who will put pressure back on the local COP.
The colonel can not be bothered with work that a mere chief of police could and should handle.

Another option is to make them SHALL ISSUE, and do it like NH. Eliminate the red tape and bureaucracy. It will probably take a lawsuit to get that to happen.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Another options is to make them SHALL ISSUE, and do it like NH. Eliminate the red tape and bureaucracy. It will probably take a lawsuit to get that to happen.

Traditionally this has been a non-starter as it reduces police power. But times are a changin.

Yup, if anyone was to sue because they can't apply at their local PD, the first thing they will do is point out that the plaintiff didn't exhaust his legal options because an alternative existed, as defined in the law.
There was a case about an LTC being denied, but the plaintiff hadn't even tried for a permit to purchase and despite one of these having never been issued, the alternative existed so he was SOL.

This happens when the AG goes in and tells the federal court a lie, or a lie by omission. In the case to which you refer the Assistant AG just plain lied (or was ignorant) when stating an FID allows handgun possession. Since the AG brought up the PTP issue, it could have checked and found the state had no record of issuing one. Comm2As attorney was not briefed of this in advance (like one is with evidence in a criminal trial) we we could not respond with "Yer honer, we have proof no such Ptp has ever been issued and that PDs and the state will refuse to process a PTP" Thus, the process of generating a plaintiff who has an FID and tried to get a PTP begins.

As to the state - it just ignores the law. The states position is still that an LTC is an administrative license, not a process. Basically you have a 2A right but you have no right to the license required to exercise the right. The matter is simple - you have a dedicated professional who has dedicated his/her life to public safety and an untrained ignorant rube who probably beats his wife and masticates in front of his children who wants to parade around town with a gun just waiting to use it, at which the point will carefully consider all facts and find against the applicant. Attorneys who really know the game tell me the district court sees licensing appeals as a complete waste of time.

 

[Coyote33]

Didn't "our side" lose the PTP case here?

Comm2A Files Against Northborough (again) - Morin v. Lyver

The First Circuit told Alfred Morin he couldn't challenge his license prohibition because he didn't apply for the 'right' combination of licenses. Well, now he can. He got the FID, the PTP was denied, and the NPD Chief gets sued again - Morin v. Lyver.

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