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NH Gun Line & New Law Firm Opening In Concord, NH (February 2021)
- Thread starter Qwikdraw45
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Actually, making sure guns can be purchased without delay is the only position that is worth defending. At best this bill would become law in June and there is a very good chance that this bill will not become law. Should we still need to wait until June and live with 3 day delays until then....
Bottom line is the NHGL was failing to do its job for many years and there are some employees that need to find a different job.
Ironically, NHFC members were the ones making phone calls to DOS to get the line to actually do its job while everyone was taking shots at the group. [2a folks seem to be there own worse enemies sometimes]
I have personally witnessed a decrease of days to minutes for the checks over the last 2 months. I literately hung around some gun stores for the afternoons over the last 2 months. Phone calls are going through quickly, I saw one today in 3 minutes or less, those companies that use fax machines and there are some are having issues.
Bottom line is the NHGL was failing to do its job for many years and there are some employees that need to find a different job.
Ironically, NHFC members were the ones making phone calls to DOS to get the line to actually do its job while everyone was taking shots at the group. [2a folks seem to be there own worse enemies sometimes]
I have personally witnessed a decrease of days to minutes for the checks over the last 2 months. I literately hung around some gun stores for the afternoons over the last 2 months. Phone calls are going through quickly, I saw one today in 3 minutes or less, those companies that use fax machines and there are some are having issues.
KBCraig
NES Member
I don't speak for any group, but here's my logic: NH doesn't require background checks. The feds do, so the feds should conduct them.
New Hampshire, very wisely, has never assimilated federal guns laws into state statute.
Let the feds do fed things.
The department has a staff of 7, I don't remember what they said in the hearing but I think it was 2 or 4 that worked the "gun line" NORMALLY. When the pressure of losing their power became real they pulled 8-12 police officers off the street to work the "gun line " full time Temporarily. That's doubling or tripling the full time staff. They can't maintain that unless they hire more full time, fully benefited staff. So the cost to taxpayers will go up even more if you want to keep the temporary gains.
And the use Faxing! If the gun is kept it would have to modernize with a proper web portal for submission. Having been named in more than a few Gov contracts, including a web portal, I can tell you this is going to cost millions, $10M would not surprise me in the least.
So double the staff, a major upgrade, more money, more bureaucracy, all for something the state doesn't require and the Fed is already being paid for.
In this thread I have a couple posts with gun line states I got directly from them, not what I'd call good performance Transfer wait times?
As for anyone whos concerned about people losing jobs. We are talking 2-4 state employees. The state will be able to move them elsewhere very easily. There are a ton of openings in the state gov.
wait till June for a permant fix. June is 3 short months away. NH gun buyers have been enduring the bad gun line for years. enough is enough if SB 141 fails im sure that the delays will start all over again
KBCraig
NES Member
Why does it take a highly-paid trooper to answer the phone and run NCIC?
Unsworn dispatchers all over the state, who are paid a fraction as much, have NLETS IDs and run those same queries every time a cop calls in for wants and warrants.
Unsworn dispatchers all over the state, who are paid a fraction as much, have NLETS IDs and run those same queries every time a cop calls in for wants and warrants.
Because they were available and he had the authority to pull them off the street to cover for their own incompetence.
He didn't have the time, or really cared enough, to hire actual staff. And after all, they will be gone as soon as the heats off.
One of the checks the gun line does is the same fed check the feds do. So anything that delays a fed check will also delay the gun line. The state gun line only adds to what the fed requires, it can't take anything away.
Get rid of the gun line AND oppose the fed overreach. It's not an either/or thing.
Which would be the date of the hearing. Once the TRO was issued it became "in force" when the defendant was served and given notice. At that time the entry in the system was updated to a served status and which was linked to the data file listing all TRO/FRO orders. This file was used by anyone conducting a background check for firearm purchases. While that was years ago the changes were more in the software format than procedures.
Question 21H asked that specific question.
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Holy Fuddville! (FFL holder) David Simkin from Nashua AND Penny Dean both trying to get the bill listed as ITL. Simkin telling the committee that vets with High Level Security Clearances are more likely to be denied an approval (delayed). Really? Moron hasn't figured out that NH DOS uses NICS anyway. Penny Dean claiming that people can get answer quickly from the NH Gun Line (although their website specifically states an answer within 14 days).1:32:00 to 1:58:00. Another "FFL" Blackton/Blackdon said "What if they close down NICS and the NH Line?" Who will we call for handguns. Duh, again, if NICS is shut down, the NH Line won't work.
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First, my name is Jay Simkin and I've held an FFl for a tad short of 40 years. I personally carry-out background checks on those, to whom I sell or transfer firerms.Holy Fuddville! (FFL holder) David Simkin from Nashua AND Penny Dean both trying to get the bill listed as ITL. Simkin telling the committee that vets with High Level Security Clearances are more likely to be denied an approval (delayed). Really? Moron hasn't figured out that NH DOS uses NICS anyway. Penny Dean claiming that people can get answer quickly from the NH Gun Line (although their website specifically states an answer within 14 days).
Second, the FBI-NICS center personnel are contractors, not Federal government employees. First-level agents FBI-NICS agents do not have security clearances adequate to allow them to see records of those who hold (or have held) high-level security clearances, e.g., Federal civilian employees and contractors; former members of the Special Ops units (SEALs, Delta Force, Marine ForceRecon; etc.). So, if an FFL (dealer) calls-in a request for such a civilian or veteran - and there's no one at work in the NICS Center with an adequate clearance - the request is "Delayed", until a reviewer is on duty, who has an adequate clearance.
State of New Hampshire employees - who are NOT contractors - can view all records required to make a decision as to whether or not a recipient is qualified to receive a firearm. The issue is NOT with the databases used. It is with the qualifications of those, who consult those databases.
It would be well if those - who do not actually themselves do background checks (e.g., Attorney List) - would not pontificate about a process, that they do not actually use. Only FFL-holders - and their qualified employees - can carry-out background checks.
Third, as to Attorney Penny Dean's qualifications, be advised that she enabled me to recoup a wrongly-revoked MA Non-resident Temporary License to Carry Firearms. The Supreme Judicial Court of Massachusetts so ordered in 2013 (FRB v. Simkin, 466 Mass. 168, (2013)). The license has since been renewed each year.
The New Hampshire Supreme Court ordered the restoration of Gregory DuPont's wrongly-revoked NH Pistol and Revolver License and his Armed Security Guard License. Atty. Dean and I (as a non-attorney representative, under NH Supreme Court Rule No. 33(2) and with the Court's gracious leave) appeared for DuPont before the NH Supreme Court. We filed DuPont's briefs (each license required its own appeal), and argued for DuPont before the Court. That decision - strongly in DuPont's favor - was issued in 2015 (DuPont v. Nashua Police Dep't, 167 NH 429 (2015).
That 2015 decision helped to undermine the position of viciously anti-gun Massachusetts officials, who wrongly supported BATFE's claim that the Massachusetts Firearms Licensing Review Board (FLRB) could not restore the civil right to be armed of certain Massachusetts residents.
DuPont had obtained such a restoration, because he merited it. As a result of lawsuits filed by MA residents, the FLRB has regained the capacity to restore the civil right to be armed for certain MA misdemeanants. What, if anything, BATFE does about that remains to be seen. The Feds knew about the FLRB's creation (under a 2004 law) and FLRB restorations for over a decade, before objecting.
In short, do homework" - get to the facts of a matter - before posting.
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Nick Fury
NES Member
I can attest to this. Several years ago I was on a Gunbroker bender buying surplus handguns cheap. Like one every 2-3 weeks with background checks clearing within 15 minutes.
My 2 year old child wandered off the fenced in property while we were distracted dealing with my dying mother. Cops got called and obviously a report was generated. The next week bam! Delayed.
So yeah they are looking at more than they should be…
KBCraig
NES Member
I... uhh...
Well, then.
I guess that explains why no one with a high level clearance has ever been able to get a "proceed" instead of a "delay", because... well, they they could tell you, they'd have to kill you.
I'm curious on what you are saying in this post. Are you saying that federal contractors are not able to get S, TS, or TS/SCI clearances, but NH state employees have those and have been read on to ACCM programs and the NH Gun Line operates in a SCIF so they can access these files and process NICS checks faster than NICS personnel? That's pretty cool.
The operative word is "Were"
Last spring this extracurricular unauthorized behavior was shut down and the stats that have been communicated to me indicate that average processing time is in the 4-5 minute range for NH gun line checks
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DarthRevan
NES Member
Did you seriously just copy and paste your previous post to reply to him (then delete it)?
Ya f***en petty, guy. And not in a funny way either.
Ya f***en petty, guy. And not in a funny way either.
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As to your first statement, please re-read my post. I clearly stated that at FBI-NICS there are employees who do have Federal Security clearances. Getting those clearances is very costly. So, contractor(s) do not get them for every reviewer, because the vast majority of inquiries do not involve records of those, who have - or have held - security clearances. Thus, it is not necessary for first-level reviewers to have security clearances.
As to the NH SP "gun line", I did not claim that they process inquiries faster than does the FBI-NICS, except for applicants, who have (or have had) security clearances. For the vast majority of applicants, the processing time is about the same.
I cannot state - because I do not know - whether or not NH SP reviewers have security clearances. Because the FBI-NICS reviewers are not Federal employees, it could be that FBI-NICS software limits reviewers' access to some applicants' records. The NH SP reviewers are state employees, so may not be subject to those limits.
The rogue NH SP employee - who contributed greatly to the over-long and horribly burdensome background check delays in 2020 - no longer can do so. Thus, there's no reason to expect any reversion to the long delays that once embittered the lives of firearm dealers and the vast majority of their customers, who are law-abiding.
As to the NH SP "gun line", I did not claim that they process inquiries faster than does the FBI-NICS, except for applicants, who have (or have had) security clearances. For the vast majority of applicants, the processing time is about the same.
I cannot state - because I do not know - whether or not NH SP reviewers have security clearances. Because the FBI-NICS reviewers are not Federal employees, it could be that FBI-NICS software limits reviewers' access to some applicants' records. The NH SP reviewers are state employees, so may not be subject to those limits.
The rogue NH SP employee - who contributed greatly to the over-long and horribly burdensome background check delays in 2020 - no longer can do so. Thus, there's no reason to expect any reversion to the long delays that once embittered the lives of firearm dealers and the vast majority of their customers, who are law-abiding.
Thanks for the response. Looking back, my comment appeared to be a direct jab at you and it wasn't really intended that way. My last sentence was a bit snarky and I apologize. I don't want to be part of a pile on here. Being stuck in the People's Republic of Mass I don't really have a dog in this fight but I was born and raised in NH so I am interested in this. Emotions run high on both sides of this debate and besides ditching NICS and the Gun Line, I don't know if there is a good answer. If the Gun Line does a NICS check AND additional checks I didn't see how it could happen faster than NICS only. You put forth a scenario related to security clearances which is an area which I at least have a passing knowledge about and know a fair number of people that would fall under the categories you outline. I haven't heard of them being excessively delayed in states they live in but I will be sure to ask.
To your original post, the only thing I could see State Employees that are part of law enforcement having access to that a FBI-NICS contractor would not is U//LES or unclassified - Law Enforcement Sensitive material, but I would hope that access should be part of their contract (Form DD254 or other type form). These documents shouldn't impact people that had clearances for the reason you specified but if they were part of the FBI, DHS, or worked at some Fusion Center it could happen.
In your opinion, does the Gun Line make processing background checks faster for the majority of people, or eliminate very extensive delays for a smaller set of people, or add time in most cases? You seem to have a good amount of knowledge about this and I am interested in learning. Thanks.
I am also interested in what others opinions on that question are.
Nicholas Daugustine
They are open. They opened late to try to catch up from yesterday. must be nice ....
Sean List
For a while this morning, from approximately 10 to 12, they were claiming their phones were down. "Fax only." Then they sucked all day. Remember to thank the allegedly pro-2A Fudds who convinced RINO Sununu to veto my bill to fix this shit. Dave Wheeler as the emperor Fudd. There are still dipshits who don't understand that the Gun Line is running federal background checks, through NICS. We are paying the State to doublecheck the Feds' work and expand opportunities for false denials. It makes me want to puke.
They are open. They opened late to try to catch up from yesterday. must be nice ....
Sean List
For a while this morning, from approximately 10 to 12, they were claiming their phones were down. "Fax only." Then they sucked all day. Remember to thank the allegedly pro-2A Fudds who convinced RINO Sununu to veto my bill to fix this shit. Dave Wheeler as the emperor Fudd. There are still dipshits who don't understand that the Gun Line is running federal background checks, through NICS. We are paying the State to doublecheck the Feds' work and expand opportunities for false denials. It makes me want to puke.
