New DSI 9mm rifle

[jkerm3]

I just picked up one of these from FS. AR-style MA compliant - 9mm, fixed stock, removable Glock mags, non-threaded barrel. The 5.56 versions have a fixed mag, adjustable stock, threaded barrel set up.

Here is the FS link:
8/21/19: Dark-Storm Ind. 5.56 and 9mm rifles! | Four Seasons Firearms

Quality seems good. Added Magpul back up flip sights and will be adding a Vortex red dot soon.

I have been wanting a 9mm carbine and this seemed like a pretty good option. I will report back after a range trip this weekend. Here are the specs from their website:

Dark Storm DS-9 Typhoon Rifle

• Compliant for MA and NJ
• DS-9 Billet 7075 Aluminum Lower Receiver - Accepts Glock Magazines - Cerakote FDE
• DS-9 Billet 7075 Aluminum Upper Receiver w/ Last Round Bolt Hold Open - Creakote FDE
• DSI 9mm Bolt Carrier Group
• DSI Billet Ambidextrous Charging Handle
• DSI Billet Ambidextrous Safety Selector
• DSI Ultralight Narrow Profile M-Lok 12" Forearm - Cerakote FDE
• DSI 16" 9mm Non-Threaded 1:10 Nitrite Barrel
• 10 Round Magazine
• Magpul MOE Fixed Stock
• Ambidextrous Sling Plate
• Hogue Pistol Grip
• Optic Ready (sights not included)
• Trigger Lock
• Weight: 6 lbs 4 oz

 

[Varmint]

Cool, let us know how you like it.

Dumb question, will that take any 9mm AR upper? They're all compatible?

 

[22lr]

Cool, let us know how you like it.

Dumb question, will that take any 9mm AR upper? They're all compatible?

Same question here. Interesting.. Different trigger group than an AR or something?

 

[jkerm3]

From what I can tell it is a standard 9mm AR upper so it should be compatible with others. I know DSI makes a standard 9mm AR-15 platform upper and sell it solo so I think the DS-9 is on the same platform.

Not sure about the trigger group.

 

[inkdesigner]

Does it use a Glock 17 mag?

 

[PappyM3]

If 9mm lowers are being blessed by FFLs, look at the CMMG guard offerings. They provide radial delayed blowback to make the recoil softer than the standard direct blowback.

But that Dark Storm looks like a nice package for the price.

 

[jkerm3]

Does it use a Glock 17 mag?

Yes. I wanted something that took pre-bans so this fit the bill.

 

[MarkT]

Nice. I'm curious of the velocity range for 147 grain. Anyone know?

 

[Al-Jim19]

If 9mm lowers are being blessed by FFLs, look at the CMMG guard offerings. They provide radial delayed blowback to make the recoil softer than the standard direct blowback.

But that Dark Storm looks like a nice package for the price.

My hometown ffl is not on board with selling the proletariat 9mm lowers. They make their own in house and will not play ball unless you’re a free American.

 

[SKumar]

Looks cool, but MAN is it pricey! $1k is the cheapest, 1.5 is the average. I had the AR9 itch for the longest time, then I picked up a Ruger PC9 for a fraction of the price and I'm good now. Takes glock mags, has takedown ability, threaded barrel, looks so cool with a suppressor on it. If you really need the AR platform, this looks like a good pick. Glad FFLs aren't scared of this one.

 

[jjm1986]

Buy a new frontier lower in 9mm and build the rifle I did that and it was well under a grand

 

[jkerm3]

Yeah, it is a little pricey....just over $1150 OTD cash price.

I looked at the Ruger but decided I really wanted 9mm with a pistol grip. I didn’t like the Kel-Tec or Hi-Point, and didn’t want to build one, so it was a good fit for me.

I know people are turned off from the DSI 5.56 AR-15s because they all have fixed mags. DSI gets away with removable mags with a pistol grip on this one by fixing the stock and using a non-threaded barrel (only two evil features).

 

[SKumar]

If you want a pistol grip, I think there’s an aftermarket stock that you can put on the Ruger

 

[jjm1986]

9mm is a blowback design and has no gas tube or block is a totally different operating system than the AR15 in 556

 

[johnnymac101]

Range Report?

 

[EMTDAD]

ok..this might be a stupid question, and I'm probably missing it somewhere in the MA AWB verbiage, but if a company is making a fixed mag AR, why are they limiting it to 10 rds and not 20/30? If a mag isn't detachable, then is it really a mag or is it part of the gun itself?

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

According to the state that's manufacturing a new feeding device thus creating a new large capacity feeding device.

ok..this might be a stupid question, and I'm probably missing it somewhere in the MA AWB verbiage, but if a company is making a fixed mag AR, why are they limiting it to 10 rds and not 20/30? If a mag isn't detachable, then is it really a mag or is it part of the gun itself?

 

[jkerm3]

Range Report?

Range trip went great. Spent most of the time zeroing the sights and red dot. Mixed ammo with no issues. Put around 150 rounds through it anywhere from 25 to 100 yards. Very accurate for what it is inside 50 and within expectation for 9mm carbine at 100. The Glock pre-ban mag I used did not hold the bolt open after the last round. The 10 round mag did.

Really fun to shoot. I recommend for anyone looking for an AR style rifle in 9mm.

 

[Lsgun1]

Looks cool but definitely expensive, puts it up with the CZ Scorpion which from what I've read would be the better dedicated 9mm platform since it was designed around it. Not bashing just putting out information.

 

[PappyM3]

Looks cool but definitely expensive, puts it up with the CZ Scorpion which from what I've read would be the better dedicated 9mm platform since it was designed around it. Not bashing just putting out information.

The ability to take preban Glock mags is a big plus in a state like MA. I’m looking at building one that takes MP5 mags, myself. No bolt hold-open, but the 30 round mags cost as much as a U-notch Glock 17 mag. Never mind being 82% cheaper than 31rnd preban Glock mags. The downside to the MP5 mags is that they’re too wide for a standard AR lower so you can’t use an adapter in a pre-ban lower.

 

[ReluctantDecoy]

9mm is a blowback design and has no gas tube or block is a totally different operating system than the AR15 in 556

I made that exact same argument on another thread on this forum a couple weeks back. Noted that about blowback vs gas impingement vs piston. Also said this was the reason Sig MCX is allowed, as it uses different operating system than an AR15. Someone told me that because the serialized lower on most AR9's can accept parts that are compatible with AR15 platform (ie. trigger groups, uppers, furniture, etc), it fails the similarity test. Also noted Sig MCX lowers can't fit AR15 uppers (which is true, from what I've heard).

Yay! MA confusion!

I was about to do exactly what you did when I saw those comments and decided to hold off for now. I don't know what to believe anymore.

 

[PappyM3]

I made that exact same argument on another thread on this forum a couple weeks back. Noted that about blowback vs gas impingement vs piston. Also said this was the reason Sig MCX is allowed, as it uses different operating system than an AR15. Someone told me that because the serialized lower on most AR9's can accept parts that are compatible with AR15 platform (ie. trigger groups, uppers, furniture, etc), it fails the similarity test. Also noted Sig MCX lowers can't fit AR15 uppers (which is true, from what I've heard)....

I think you’re referring to me. My speculation on what the enforcement notice means is based on the wording of its “tests”, but it is still speculation when it all boils down to it. And it brings little risk to the individual. If I were in your shoes and had an FFL okay with transferring an AR9 like the OP has, then I would go for it. I will also note that .22lr ARs also use the same trigger as “AR-15s” and fail the interchangeability test, yet Healey stated they were okay. So perhaps 9mm are okay too. Also, I think AR9s pass the similarity test. It’s the interchangeability test that could be an issue.

I’m actually about to start inquiring about a particular lower for myself. If I can’t find one, I’ll do an 80% build. AR9s are absolutely not copies or duplicates of AR15s by any reasonable definition of copy and duplicate.

 

[ReluctantDecoy]

I think you’re referring to me. My speculation on what the enforcement notice means is based on the wording of its “tests”, but it is still speculation when it all boils down to it. And it brings little risk to the individual. If I were in your shoes and had an FFL okay with transferring an AR9 like the OP has, then I would go for it. I will also note that .22lr ARs also use the same trigger as “AR-15s” and fail the interchangeability test, yet Healey stated they were okay. So perhaps 9mm are okay too. Also, I think AR9s pass the similarity test. It’s the interchangeability test that could be an issue.

I’m actually about to start inquiring about a particular lower for myself. If I can’t find one, I’ll do an 80% build. AR9s are absolutely not copies or duplicates of AR15s by any reasonable definition of copy and duplicate.

Sorry--my wording was incorrect. I was going for what you posted about Interchangeability Test instead of Similarity Test. However, the net result would be the same for either if proven "interchangeable" or "similar". The net result is the weapon is deemed a copy or duplicate. I'm generally in the camp of AR9's being different as well, but keep on getting conflicting info. I like where you were going with the .22lr AR's, but that was a specifically cited caliber.

 

[jkerm3]

Not sure about the “interchangeable” and “similar/copy” clauses but the differences could definitely play a role. According to the FFL, they simply said these DSI 9mm’s pass muster in MA because they only have two evil features - removable mags and pistol grip. The stock is fixed and barrel is not threaded. DSI’s website specifically lists this model as a post ban, MA compliant model.

Interestingly when I was looking at the Ruger PCC and I asked if/when a third party comes out with a pistol grip stock, would a modified PCC ultimately be “non-compliant” because it would then have a threaded barrel, removable mags, take-down design, and pistol grip. I was told it was a very real possibility.

Not sure what to believe anymore. The whole thing is stupid but the FFL was 100% confident in selling and doing the transfer so I am ok with it.

 

[ReluctantDecoy]

Not sure about the “interchangeable” and “similar/copy” clauses but the differences could definitely play a role. According to the FFL, they simply said these DSI 9mm’s pass muster in MA because they only have two evil features - removable mags and pistol grip. The stock is fixed and barrel is not threaded. DSI’s website specifically lists this model as a post ban, MA compliant model.

Interestingly when I was looking at the Ruger PCC and I asked if/when a third party comes out with a pistol grip stock, would a modified PCC ultimately be “non-compliant” because it would then have a threaded barrel, removable mags, take-down design, and pistol grip. I was told it was a very real possibility.

Not sure what to believe anymore. The whole thing is stupid but the FFL was 100% confident in selling and doing the transfer so I am ok with it.

I don't think the take down design of the Ruger PCC would mean anything because you can't fire it taken down. However, one would probably want to get a muzzle device or screw cap soldered on to prevent any issues with three evil features.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

If you use the NFA C5 you'll need to make sure the upper will clear the wide mags, a standard upper receiver won't. I didn't check a VLTOR MUR-1 upper I have on another AR9 but I could, I ended up using NFA's matching C5 upper.

The ability to take preban Glock mags is a big plus in a state like MA. I’m looking at building one that takes MP5 mags, myself. No bolt hold-open, but the 30 round mags cost as much as a U-notch Glock 17 mag. Never mind being 82% cheaper than 31rnd preban Glock mags. The downside to the MP5 mags is that they’re too wide for a standard AR lower so you can’t use an adapter in a pre-ban lower.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

There's a shop well known for being over the top re: MA rules that's selling them. I'd be stunned to find out they didn't ask for (and possibly receive) some guidance before offering them for sale.

Not sure about the “interchangeable” and “similar/copy” clauses but the differences could definitely play a role. According to the FFL, they simply said these DSI 9mm’s pass muster in MA because they only have two evil features - removable mags and pistol grip. The stock is fixed and barrel is not threaded. DSI’s website specifically lists this model as a post ban, MA compliant model.

Interestingly when I was looking at the Ruger PCC and I asked if/when a third party comes out with a pistol grip stock, would a modified PCC ultimately be “non-compliant” because it would then have a threaded barrel, removable mags, take-down design, and pistol grip. I was told it was a very real possibility.

Not sure what to believe anymore. The whole thing is stupid but the FFL was 100% confident in selling and doing the transfer so I am ok with it.

 

[PappyM3]

If you use the NFA C5 you'll need to make sure the upper will clear the wide mags, a standard upper receiver won't. I didn't check a VLTOR MUR-1 upper I have on another AR9 but I could, I ended up using NFA's matching C5 upper.

Thanks. I’m interested in using CMMGs radial delayed blowback system, so I need an upper with a cutout for the cam pin. I hear the normal charging handle C5 upper has that, but the side-charging C5 upper does not.

There's a shop well known for being over the top re: MA rules that's selling them. I'd be stunned to find out they didn't ask for (and possibly receive) some guidance before offering them for sale.

Well, that’s pretty solid there.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Thanks. I’m interested in using CMMGs radial delayed blowback system, so I need an upper with a cutout for the cam pin. I hear the normal charging handle C5 upper has that, but the side-charging C5 upper does not.



Well, that’s pretty solid there.

Nice, I'm thinking of doing a CMMG build as well. I think I have an old MK9 laying around for Colt mags, but will probably do a Glock mag build as I have a metric shit-ton of 17 mags.

Also do keep in mind that I'm 100% speculating about the shop in question.

 

[jjm1986]

I made that exact same argument on another thread on this forum a couple weeks back. Noted that about blowback vs gas impingement vs piston. Also said this was the reason Sig MCX is allowed, as it uses different operating system than an AR15. Someone told me that because the serialized lower on most AR9's can accept parts that are compatible with AR15 platform (ie. trigger groups, uppers, furniture, etc), it fails the similarity test. Also noted Sig MCX lowers can't fit AR15 uppers (which is true, from what I've heard).

Yay! MA confusion!

I was about to do exactly what you did when I saw those comments and decided to hold off for now. I don't know what to believe anymore.

Just go buy one and enjoy building it and don’t look back it’s totally fine.