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New Deer Getter.....

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Finally bit the bullet. Been wanting to get one for years..

Triumph™ Bone Collector Combo

Now the question from a MZ noob.... For you guys that are into MZ hunting - what kind of loads are you running for whitetail? How about powder selection. I'm kind of digging the pellets because of ease of loading in the field. But the argument that loose powder is more flexible because of the ability to finely adjust charges is compelling. Basically is it pyrodex or blackhorn 209.

How about the lead you throw down range? Sabots, power belts or a plain old straight up .50 bullet?

Just looking for some insight on what my starting point should be. If anyone is in the SE Mass area and wants to head out to the range for some trigger choochy choochy bang bang I would appreciate any insights in the world of MZs as well.
 

whacko

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Finally bit the bullet. Been wanting to get one for years..

Triumph™ Bone Collector Combo

Now the question from a MZ noob.... For you guys that are into MZ hunting - what kind of loads are you running for whitetail? How about powder selection. I'm kind of digging the pellets because of ease of loading in the field. But the argument that loose powder is more flexible because of the ability to finely adjust charges is compelling. Basically is it pyrodex or blackhorn 209.

How about the lead you throw down range? Sabots, power belts or a plain old straight up .50 bullet?

Just looking for some insight on what my starting point should be. If anyone is in the SE Mass area and wants to head out to the range for some trigger choochy choochy bang bang I would appreciate any insights in the world of MZs as well.

In a modern muzzle loader the best projectile is going to be a power belt or sabot. You'll have e to try many different kinds. My tc impact hates power belts
 

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Finally bit the bullet. Been wanting to get one for years..

Triumph™ Bone Collector Combo

Now the question from a MZ noob.... For you guys that are into MZ hunting - what kind of loads are you running for whitetail? How about powder selection. I'm kind of digging the pellets because of ease of loading in the field. But the argument that loose powder is more flexible because of the ability to finely adjust charges is compelling. Basically is it pyrodex or blackhorn 209.

How about the lead you throw down range? Sabots, power belts or a plain old straight up .50 bullet?

Just looking for some insight on what my starting point should be. If anyone is in the SE Mass area and wants to head out to the range for some trigger choochy choochy bang bang I would appreciate any insights in the world of MZs as well.
As far as powder.....tripple 7 pellets are the way to go for hunting convenience....provided your shooting out to 100 yards. If your trying to drill at 150 and 200 you'll have to play with the powder charges and types to get that kind range. But under 100 yards the pellets are just fine.
 

whacko

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Funny reading this thread. I just came home with a TC Omega with a laminated thumbhole stock. Came with a scope too but it's a shitty old tasco so I'll be replacing that. Kittery used rack deal. Thing is mint too not a stitch of rust and the bore was shiny and bright.

Well......it's actually for the wife. She saw it and loved it and we need a 3rd front stuffer for family deer hunting. Looking forward to getting it to the range and see what she will do.
 

HorizontalHunter

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Lots of good advice above.

My TC Impact likes the Hornady SST sabots and 777 pellets. 777 pellets also come in 60g, 50g, 30g sizes so there is some flexibility there if you can find them.

Typically with traditional BP rifles you"work up a load" starting at the muzzle bore size (50 cal start at 50g) and increasing in 5g increments until you have your tightest group changing only 1 variable at a time. The same philosophy can be applied to inlines as well.

If you are going to use loose powder I would probably start at 80g and go up from there in 5g increments for each bullet you want to try.

The target doesn't have to be far. 25 yards is plenty. You are just looking for the tightest group.

I swab with a damp patch followed by a dry patch in between shots.

Loosen and re-righted the breech plug every three shots or so. One full turn is plenty. The fouling can really lock it in there. I once had to soak mine in penetrating oil for a couple of days to get it out.

I have some lead 50 cal bullets I fooled around with that you are welcome to if you PM your address. If you are going to shoot bore sized lead bullets use an OP (Over Powder) wad. It will improve the accuracy as it protects the bottom of the bullet. Think gas check.

Welcome to the insanity.

Bob
 

whacko

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Lots of good advice above.

My TC Impact likes the Hornady SST sabots and 777 pellets. 777 pellets also come in 60g, 50g, 30g sizes so there is some flexibility there if you can find them.

Typically with traditional BP rifles you"work up a load" starting at the muzzle bore size (50 cal start at 50g) and increasing in 5g increments until you have your tightest group changing only 1 variable at a time. The same philosophy can be applied to inlines as well.

If you are going to use loose powder I would probably start at 80g and go up from there in 5g increments for each bullet you want to try.

The target doesn't have to be far. 25 yards is plenty. You are just looking for the tightest group.

I swab with a damp patch followed by a dry patch in between shots.

Loosen and re-righted the breech plug every three shots or so. One full turn is plenty. The fouling can really lock it in there. I once had to soak mine in penetrating oil for a couple of days to get it out.

I have some lead 50 cal bullets I fooled around with that you are welcome to if you PM your address. If you are going to shoot bore sized lead bullets use an OP (Over Powder) wad. It will improve the accuracy as it protects the bottom of the bullet. Think gas check.

Welcome to the insanity.

Bob
I also damp/dry patch between shots. I go one further step. I actually remove the breech plug after each shot and patch it from breech to muzzle. I've found it keeps the breech plug face cleaner and the threaded area cleaner because your not packing the fouling down into the bottom of the bore.

With muzzle loading consistency is accuracy. Imo of your packing the fouling down the muzzle into the breach area shot after shot then that area is not the same for each shot. I've seen guys shoot dirty bores (load and shoot load and shoot) at the club getting ready for deer season and be satisfied with the results but they are not stacking round on top of round accuracy. I prefer the added steps to get the consistency and keyhole accuracy. My thought is that I hunt with a clean bore and breach.....so I zero with a clean bore and breach.
 
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I started out with blackhorn209 and never looked back, Barnes TSX sabots. Shoots a three shot group at 100 yards as good as a center fire, very little carbon buildup and easy cleaning.

One piece of advice, always fire a primer on a clean bore before loading.
 

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I started out with blackhorn209 and never looked back, Barnes TSX sabots. Shoots a three shot group at 100 yards as good as a center fire, very little carbon buildup and easy cleaning.

One piece of advice, always fire a primer on a clean bore before loading.
I do the same thing. Ensures the fire hole in the breach plug is clear. I load just a primer....hold the muzzle close to the ground and pull the trigger.......watch the ground in front of the muzzle to see if gas comes out the muzzle. Good to go.
 
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Seems like the Tripple 7 or Blackhorn is the consensus online as well. I found some speed loaders that can take loose powder but I'll probably stick to the pellets. In all honesty the intent is just to use to to knock down deer inside of 100 yards. I don't intend to really get to the point where it can drive tacks. So as long as it's within say 2 to 3 MOA I'm more inclined up up the charge and opt for more down range energy. Maybe even run a heavier bullet. I like Hornady stuff so I'm going to start with the SST in 250 grain. But if it shoots the 300 grain well enough I'll rock that. I'm going to try to get it somewhere in the ball park of the 150 grain charge with a 300 grain bullet. If it shoots 2 to 3 MOA with something in that ball park I'll rock a solid copper (Barnes or Hornady monoflex) and aim for the mid shoulder. That should drop em where they were standing.

I would like to track down some actual black powder too. Just because I bet that would be fun at the range.... Although my neighbors may not appreciate it.
 
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Lots of good advice above.

I have some lead 50 cal bullets I fooled around with that you are welcome to if you PM your address. If you are going to shoot bore sized lead bullets use an OP (Over Powder) wad. It will improve the accuracy as it protects the bottom of the bullet. Think gas check.

Welcome to the insanity.

Bob

Thanks for the offer man but I couldn't put you out like that. Info is already more than enough.
 

Mark from MA

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I've heard Blackhorn is the shxt.....I might end up using it, but I do like the ease of pellets.

That said Im working thru some alliant blue powder pellets that work well with 275 ish grain powerbelt platinums out of my CVA optima break action.
I've tried 777 pellet with good results too. Both pellet types need to be cleaned after like 3 rounds, as buildup gets noticeable. Accuracy gets affected, after 3, without running a cleaning patches, I'm low and right and almost out of the pie plate at 100 yards.

That said, cleaning is a breeze really with Muzzle Magic or TC cleaner, one good damp patch and two good dry ones and ready to go again.

I never shoot more than 2 pellets (100) grains. If I switch to blackhorn I'll shoot 80 like I used to with BP....I think too much powder leads to inaccuracy.
 
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whacko

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Seems like the Tripple 7 or Blackhorn is the consensus online as well. I found some speed loaders that can take loose powder but I'll probably stick to the pellets. In all honesty the intent is just to use to to knock down deer inside of 100 yards. I don't intend to really get to the point where it can drive tacks. So as long as it's within say 2 to 3 MOA I'm more inclined up up the charge and opt for more down range energy. Maybe even run a heavier bullet. I like Hornady stuff so I'm going to start with the SST in 250 grain. But if it shoots the 300 grain well enough I'll rock that. I'm going to try to get it somewhere in the ball park of the 150 grain charge with a 300 grain bullet. If it shoots 2 to 3 MOA with something in that ball park I'll rock a solid copper (Barnes or Hornady monoflex) and aim for the mid shoulder. That should drop em where they were standing.

I would like to track down some actual black powder too. Just because I bet that would be fun at the range.... Although my neighbors may not appreciate it.
Every model is different on what it likes. For the 2 muzzle loader I own......at 150 grains the accuracy went to shit. For real world knowledge......between me my son and my wife we've dropped 4 deer with the muzzle loaders. 2 pellets (100 grains) under a 250 grain tc shockwave with mag express sabots. 2 dropped where they stood......one ran 20 yards.......one ran about 50 yards pumping lung foam the whole way.
 

whacko

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I've heard Blackhorn is the shxt.....I might end up using it, but I do like the ease of pellets.

That said Im working thru some alliant blue powder pellets that work well with 275 ish grain powerbelt platinums out of my CVA optima break action.
I've tried 777 pellet with good results too. Both pellet types need to be cleaned after like 3 rounds, as buildup gets noticeable. Accuracy gets affected, after 3, without running a cleaning patches, I'm low and right and almost out of the pie plate at 100 yards.

That said, cleaning is a breeze really with Muzzle Magic or TC cleaner, one good damp patch and two good dry ones and ready to go again.

I never shoot more than 2 pellets (100) grains. If I switch to blackhorn I'll shoot 80 like I used to with BP....I think too much powder leads to inaccuracy.
I agree about over charging leads to less accuracy. Additionally looking at the load chart from my owners manual going from 100 grains to 150 grains yields an extra 334 feet per second. A 250 grain projo is 1863 fps with a 100 grain charge moves up to 2197 for with a 150 grain charge. So doing the math a 50% increase in powder charge yields barely 17% increase in velocity. Most of that powder ends up on the ground. I played with my TC impact once on a snow covered range and using 150 grains there was unburned powder all over the snow. IMO a standard muzzle loader is really designed to be efficient at 100 grains.

The good news is you can now find 30 grain pellets. Gives you the convenience of pellets with a little more flexibility in testing different charges. I'd be curious what a 130 grain charge would do. Going from 100 grain to 150 grain is a HUGE jump in charge.......I bet a 130 grain charge would yield the increase in velocity and possibly hold better accuracy. Damn......now I gotta go buy 30 grain pellets and hit the range!
 
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HorizontalHunter

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Seems like the Tripple 7 or Blackhorn is the consensus online as well. I found some speed loaders that can take loose powder but I'll probably stick to the pellets. In all honesty the intent is just to use to to knock down deer inside of 100 yards. I don't intend to really get to the point where it can drive tacks. So as long as it's within say 2 to 3 MOA I'm more inclined up up the charge and opt for more down range energy. Maybe even run a heavier bullet. I like Hornady stuff so I'm going to start with the SST in 250 grain. But if it shoots the 300 grain well enough I'll rock that. I'm going to try to get it somewhere in the ball park of the 150 grain charge with a 300 grain bullet. If it shoots 2 to 3 MOA with something in that ball park I'll rock a solid copper (Barnes or Hornady monoflex) and aim for the mid shoulder. That should drop em where they were standing.

I would like to track down some actual black powder too. Just because I bet that would be fun at the range.... Although my neighbors may not appreciate it.

I use the standard 250g Hornady SST's on the range and for the first load for hunting.

I really like the LNL sabot for field reloads. The tail allows you to stack the powder pellets on the sabot which makes for a faster field load. Just trim the tail if you want to use fewer pellets.
Hornady® SST-ML Low Drag Lock-N-Load® Speed Sabots with Flex Tip Technology : Cabela's

For black powder I typically use GOEX in my side locks. All of the substitute powders have higher ignition temperatures that GOEX. You have to ask for it. It's not always out depending on the fire marshal for that city/town. I think that BassPro carries it. Nicks in Palmer also does. I know at Nicks it is out back in a fire safe.

Bob
 
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If your going pellets 100 grains with a 250GR bullet is plenty, that 300GR would drop like a rock and thump you pretty good.

If your adament on pellets check out the IMR white hots before you go tripple-X, the burn alot cleaner. Somewhat of a pelletized blackhorn. For what it's worth i've had no problems reloading loose powder in the field, you already have a speed load ready you just pour it in and push your bullet down. Takes more time getting the primer out.
 
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If you are going to use loose powder I would probably start at 80g and go up from there

True. My measure is set btwn 80 and 85. Nice and comfy and accurate. Going up did not help at all.
250gr but the sabot must be the black one.
Best accuracy is leaving the barrel fouled but swabbed with wet and dry and leave it that way for hunting. Optimal residue.
Ok yes fine, I'm ocd - but its part of the fun.
Never had luck with powerbelts but others do I guess.
Good luck.
 

Mark from MA

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Every model is different on what it likes. For the 2 muzzle loader I own......at 150 grains the accuracy went to shit. For real world knowledge......between me my son and my wife we've dropped 4 deer with the muzzle loaders. 2 pellets (100 grains) under a 250 grain tc shockwave with mag express sabots. 2 dropped where they stood......one ran 20 yards.......one ran about 50 yards pumping lung foam the whole way.

Ive killed deer with 65-75 grains of powder (most accurate) in a smoothbore 56 cal Renegade, when muzzleloading season was only 3 days, and you had to use a sidelock gun, no rifling, open sights, and a patched round ball only. That was years ago. Deer dropped instantly as long as you hit it in the right place, or it ran a bit if double lunged. One time all I could see of a doe was a head and neck, I took the shot and dropped it at 75 yards. Brain exploded out the nostrils and round ball was rolling around in the skull.

Everything else is great to have but really not needed. I could shoot that smoothbore renegade out to a 100 yards easy. Honestly, it was a fun challenge. Muzzleloader season now might as just well be an extension of shotgun season, the guns actually shoot better than a shotgun and one shot is generally all you need.
 

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Ive killed deer with 65-75 grains of powder (most accurate) in a smoothbore 56 cal Renegade, when muzzleloading season was only 3 days, and you had to use a sidelock gun, no rifling, open sights, and a patched round ball only. That was years ago. Deer dropped instantly as long as you hit it in the right place, or it ran a bit if double lunged. One time all I could see of a doe was a head and neck, I took the shot and dropped it at 75 yards. Brain exploded out the nostrils and round ball was rolling around in the skull.

Everything else is great to have but really not needed. I could shoot that smoothbore renegade out to a 100 yards easy. Honestly, it was a fun challenge. Muzzleloader season now might as just well be an extension of shotgun season, the guns actually shoot better than a shotgun and one shot is generally all you need.
All true. I considered bringing my muzzle loader during shotgun season last fall.....still went with the shotgun but after the results from this past muzzle loader season.....and the fact that the gun itself carries easier than a shotgun......I'm going to bring the muzzle loader out all season this next fall.
 

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There are lots of good sabots/bullet combos out there. I don't consider Powerbelts to be in the "good" category. I shoot Barnes TE-Z mainly because I bought a crap load of them when I first got into ML and have plenty left. I like them, deer certainly don't. Accurate and expand well. But like I said, plenty of good ones out there, try a few and see what your gun likes. I have about 3-4 different sabots I use with this bullet just for accuracy testing.

As for powder, I am 100% in favor of BH209. Love the stuff. Yes it is a little more work with powder vs pellets but if you get those speed loader tubes it works great. Clean up is....well, just like shooting a center fire rifle. Nice and easy. With Pyrodex you will be cleaning every shot or 2. Stuff is dirty and requires cleaning.

I shoot 100-105gr (volume) of BH209 with a 250 or 270gr Barnes TE-Z and it's plenty accurate for an ML and performance on deer has been excellent for me.
 

whacko

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There are lots of good sabots/bullet combos out there. I don't consider Powerbelts to be in the "good" category. I shoot Barnes TE-Z mainly because I bought a crap load of them when I first got into ML and have plenty left. I like them, deer certainly don't. Accurate and expand well. But like I said, plenty of good ones out there, try a few and see what your gun likes. I have about 3-4 different sabots I use with this bullet just for accuracy testing.

As for powder, I am 100% in favor of BH209. Love the stuff. Yes it is a little more work with powder vs pellets but if you get those speed loader tubes it works great. Clean up is....well, just like shooting a center fire rifle. Nice and easy. With Pyrodex you will be cleaning every shot or 2. Stuff is dirty and requires cleaning.

I shoot 100-105gr (volume) of BH209 with a 250 or 270gr Barnes TE-Z and it's plenty accurate for an ML and performance on deer has been excellent for me.
I tried power belts once when I was in the mood to experiment. First shot went through the 50 yard target sideways and way left. Second shot hit way right. I stopped there. Still have the rest if the pack.,......they sucked in my TC impact anyway. I'm still using tc shockwaves in a mag express sabots. Have to admit they are a BITCH to run down the bore.....very tight even with a little bore butter. But get 3 rounds touching at 50 yards with iron sights. I tried the super glide sabots (they are thinner) and they did go down the bore easire but the shot group opened up just a tad. I'll deal with the small hassle of ramming the mag express sabots down the bore to keep that accuracy.
 

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Plus I rarely ever hear of good terminal performance on game. 2 strikes is enough for me with Powerbelts.
I just picked up a TC Omega used but in like new condition. The barrel looks identical to my TC impacts. I'm going to test it out at the range this Saturday......hoping I get the same accuracy as I do with my other two TC impacts.
 
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I have a T/C Triumph Bone Collector, which I have been shooting with 100 grains of White Hot Pellets. I first tried Hornady 250 gr. Mono Flex Sabot’s but thought I was gunna give myself a hernia loading it (was very tight, good groupings though). Switched to Pawerbelt Aerolite 250 gr. bullets which were much easier for me to load and I have been happy with accuracy. Shot my first dear with that setup this year and was satisfied. Recover the bullet in the far shoulder while butchering it (had passed through the body cavity breaking rib on the entrance side and going through the heart). Seemed to work great I attached a picture of recover bullet as well.
 

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