New ammo for the Corps?

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Hope this isn't a dupe...

http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2010/02/marine_SOST_ammo_021510w/

Corps to use more lethal ammo in Afghanistan
By Dan Lamothe - Staff writer
Posted : Tuesday Feb 16, 2010 9:29:10 EST
The Marine Corps is dropping its conventional 5.56mm ammunition in Afghanistan in favor of new deadlier, more accurate rifle rounds, and could field them at any time.

The open-tipped rounds until now have been available only to Special Operations Command troops. The first 200,000 5.56mm Special Operations Science and Technology rounds are already downrange with Marine Expeditionary Brigade-Afghanistan, said Brig. Gen. Michael Brogan, commander of Marine Corps Systems Command. Commonly known as “SOST” rounds, they were legally cleared for Marine use by the Pentagon in late January, according to Navy Department documents obtained by Marine Corps Times.

Read full story here
 
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TheWookie

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The M855 has bore a lot of criticism over the years, if they've developed something more effective then so be it. They’d be better off with 77 gr SMK’s which is a better round for penetrating objects. Don’t hold your breath waiting for anything to change.
 
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Sounds good to me. Hope they use the round.
The M855 from a M4 carbine has limited range & stopping power. This has been a problem for years.
Use technology, It's a lot easyer to update the round than the gun.
NATO should MYOB. Our enemies don't follow any rules. Fight fire with fire I say.
I could see this experiment affecting .223 reloading components again.
 
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The problem is with the open tip design. Open tip bullets are illegal since the Hague Convention. Proving they are not considered open tip bullets will take a long time going through NATO.

That is interesting. What about match ammo loadings? Are they exempt?
 

Big Daddy 45acp

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The problem is with the open tip design. Open tip bullets are illegal since the Hague Convention. Proving they are not considered open tip bullets will take a long time going through NATO.

I believe this applies only to nations signatory to the convention. This would rule out the Taliban and other terrorists.
 
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The problem is with the open tip design. Open tip bullets are illegal since the Hague Convention. Proving they are not considered open tip bullets will take a long time going through NATO.

There is no problem. The Hague bans expanding ammo, not open tip ammo. This isn't a hollow point, it's just jacketed from the bottom up instead of the top down.
 

TheWookie

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That is interesting. What about match ammo loadings? Are they exempt?


What Big Daddy said, and this....

Sniper Use of Open-Tip Ammunition

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MEMORANDUM FOR COMMANDER, UNITED STATES ARMY SPECIAL OPERATIONS COMMAND

SUBJECT: Sniper Use of Open-Tip Ammunition

DATE: 12 October 1990

1.Summary.

This memorandum considers whether United States Army Snipers may employ match-grade, "open-tip" ammunition in combat or other special missions. It concludes that such ammunition does not violate the law of war obligations of the United States, and may be employed in peacetime or wartime missions of the Army.

An opinion that reaches the same conclusion has been issued simultaneously for the Navy and Marine Corps by The Judge Advocate General of the Navy.


Authored by W. Hays Parks, Colonel, USMC,
Chief of the JAG's International Law Branch

Full memorandum found here....http://www.thegunzone.com/opentip-ammo.html
 
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I say screw the 5.56! Our boys deserve better. Back when our country had a pair and didn't listen to the sissys at the UN, we had REAL firepower. Give 'em the Kriss Super V!!
 

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For close quarter, why not? For further out....give them at least a 7.62.

Dumb and Dumber. I'd rather just see them using a better 5.56 round, which there are plenty of. More ammo and less crap (an extra gun) to carry. Infantry often have to shift between engaging at CQB distances one minute and then shooting across rooftops the next.

-Mike
 
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I say screw the 5.56! Our boys deserve better. Back when our country had a pair and didn't listen to the sissys at the UN, we had REAL firepower. Give 'em the Kriss Super V!!

We followed the rules back then & still do today. There's no restriction on the use of larger calibers. We still use M14's & could dust off the Garands if we wanted.
Everyone, including the military & private sector agrees something needs to be done. They have been pushing hard for the 6.8 SPC but it's too expensive. We can't swap & tune the uppers on millions of M16's.
If a open tip bullet can solve the problem, It will be a practical and cost efective solution.
 

jasons

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Corps to use more lethal ammo in Afghanistan



And in related news the Air Force has just completed the switch to non-lethal, lead free, biodegradable "green bullets" made from pressed together recycled newsprint and patchouli oil.

[devil2][pot]
 

terraformer

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And in related news the Air Force has just completed the switch to non-lethal, lead free, biodegradable "green bullets" made from pressed together recycled newsprint and patchouli oil.

[devil2][pot]

No worries, they never use their small arms anyhow. [devil2]
 

P2A

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'cause the guys who actually do that stuff for a living don't have tactical wheelbarrows and jogging strollers

I heard the one you designed was going into production, Ive got mine pre ordered.
 

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thewookie said:
They’d be better off with 77 gr SMK’s which is a better round for penetrating objects. Don’t hold your breath waiting for anything to change.

This
 
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Really? Perhaps you and SAF can explain to us exactly when and how the UN has EVER affected our military's choice of caliber.

Scriv, can you please clarify your comment. You typically are well informed, but the 9mm and 5.56mm NATO choices are pretty well documented. Rifles I know less about, but it is certainly NATO that moved us from the .45 cal to the 9mm Beretta. Are you drawing a distinction between the UN and NATO?
 
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Scriv, can you please clarify your comment. You typically are well informed, but the 9mm and 5.56mm NATO choices are pretty well documented. Rifles I know less about, but it is certainly NATO that moved us from the .45 cal to the 9mm Beretta. Are you drawing a distinction between the UN and NATO?

Yes, because they are not the same thing and are not even close.

And carrying two rifles is madness. So is carrying an SMG as a primary long arm. The 5.56 platform has more than enough potential to be effective.
 
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Yes, because they are not the same thing and are not even close.

And carrying two rifles is madness. So is carrying an SMG as a primary long arm. The 5.56 platform has more than enough potential to be effective.

I would argue that door-to-door the Kriss is a better weapon. Just keep it in the Hummer. For field, yes, you need a rifle and should only carry one. This is the problem with us acting as police and military.
 
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Um... what was your experience again? And since when does everyone ride in Humvees?

I'm figuring P2A probably has better insights on this, but I would always choose a carbine over an SMG for just about any situation.

Never mind the logistics involved in supplying that many different types of magazines and ammunition... and the fact that the Kriss is not a proven design.
 
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