Never Talk to the Police

[attorneyfoley]

This has been posted before, but I'm posting it again. Yes, it's a dupe. So sue me.




Here's why it's posted...

Guy is walking down the street. Tough guy threatens him. Guy, fearful for his safety, shows tough guy that he is carrying. Tough guy runs away like a little girl. (score one for the good guys)

A little while later, our hero is in his house and sees a bunch of police cars outside. He goes out to see what is going on and is confronted by the police:

Were you out walking on xxx street a little while ago?

Why yes, officer, I was.

Do you have a gun?

Why yes, officer, I do.

Game over.

His admission, coupled with the scared little girl's lie (former tough guy) that he pointed a gun at her, earned our hero a trip to court with a charge of assault with a deadly weapon (firearm).

Now our hero has to pay me a shit-ton of money to stay out of jail, and try to get his LTC back.

There is virtually no chance these charges would have been brought if he had stayed inside and ignored the police.

 

[terraformer]

I would add that pulling up his shirt was the genesis of his problem. Walk away. Always walk away. The safest way forward for anyone is to check your pride in the gun safe. So what he thinks he was a big shot and he could kick your ass. Call the cops and let them deal with it.

 

[qqac]

What kind of scenario is that?

How are the cops outside his house? Did they get info on who he is and where he lives? If they have the info and they have the ex-tough guy as a witness making a complaint, they have probable cause to go in and arrest him, or get a criminal complaint and summons issued.

How do you conclude that if he simply ignored the cops assembling outside his house there is "virtually no chance" of charges?

 

[terraformer]

What kind of scenario is that?

How are the cops outside his house? Did they get info on who he is and where he lives? If they have the info and they have the ex-tough guy as a witness making a complaint, they have probable cause to go in and arrest him, or get a criminal complaint and summons issued.

How do you conclude that if he simply ignored the cops assembling outside his house there is "virtually no chance" of charges?

If he didn't admit to him being the one, there is a significant amount of doubt an attorney could sew (usage???).

 

[thimblerigger]

What kind of scenario is that?

How are the cops outside his house? Did they get info on who he is and where he lives? If they have the info and they have the ex-tough guy as a witness making a complaint, they have probable cause to go in and arrest him, or get a criminal complaint and summons issued.

How do you conclude that if he simply ignored the cops assembling outside his house there is "virtually no chance" of charges?

I also beleive that the example of the OP suggested that the incident took place in the area and the police were searching for the individual. If he hadn't gone outside, there would never have been a reason to speak with him.

 

[securityboy]

So let me get this straight completely random "bad guy" walks up to a completely random "good guy" and threatens him for no reason, when "good guy" indicates he has a gun "bad guy" runs away and calls the police. Police figure out the area in which "good guy" lives,"good guy" talks to the cops and gets in trouble... Call me cynical but I'd bet there is plenty more to this story, "Bad guys" who threaten random people don't often call the police...

 

[terraformer]

So let me get this straight completely random "bad guy" walks up to a completely random "good guy" and threatens him for no reason, when "good guy" indicates he has a gun "bad guy" runs away and calls the police. Police figure out the area in which "good guy" lives,"good guy" talks to the cops and gets in trouble... Call me cynical but I'd bet there is plenty more to this story, "Bad guys" who threaten random people don't often call the police...

Actually, they do it all of the time. They know how to work the system.

 

[edmxz2002]

I think the point here is what you DON'T say CAN'T be used against you. So keep your mouth shut!
In this scenario, if he had stayed in the house he could have had a lawyer before they had a warrant.

 

[M1911]

What kind of scenario is that?

Sounds like it is not a "scenario" but a real life case.

- - - Updated - - -

So let me get this straight completely random "bad guy" walks up to a completely random "good guy" and threatens him for no reason, when "good guy" indicates he has a gun "bad guy" runs away and calls the police. Police figure out the area in which "good guy" lives,"good guy" talks to the cops and gets in trouble... Call me cynical but I'd bet there is plenty more to this story, "Bad guys" who threaten random people don't often call the police...

They do and the first guy who calls the cops usually is considered to be the victim.

 

[msdamato]

IMO, A carry gun should be shown or removed from its holster in two reasons; I'm putting it away for the night, or I'm drawing it in self-defense. In the latter there had better be lead coming out the end.

Showing your firearm is the same as a warning shot, your just asking for trouble.

 

[late08]

"There is virtually no chance these charges would have been brought if he had stayed inside and ignored the police."

Just so I know, the thinking here is....

Since they have no warrant, you don't have to talk to them and they cannot come inside, but I assume if you ignore them, they will leave and go get a warrant, come back, and by then you have an attorney?

Can they not arrest you for the suspicion of being involved before a warrant?

 

[ArnoldDent]

So you are saying he drew his gun? or showed that he had one?

 

[Ultrarunner]

I know that all the "operators" here will jump on me for saying this, but this is the exact reason why some of the laws concerning brandishing need to be reworked.

If one can avoid a potentially deadly situation by presenting a firearm, then it is all for the better. There was a time when it was more common to have a gun then not, and people wouldn't mess with you as such. Shouldn't a deterrent be the first option before deadly force?

 

[IPSC_DRL]

So you are saying he drew his gun? or showed that he had one?

He said, she said.

 

[Glockster30]

He said, she said.

This^

Maybe he just decided to open carry legally so the BG would leave him alone.

 

[richc]

If the police bang at your door and ask for you by name are you obligated to answer?

"Mr. Flintstone, this is the Boston Police Department and we want to talk to you".

I know you can decline to discuss without counsel, but is there an obligation to even acknowledge their request at your door?

 

[M1911]

"There is virtually no chance these charges would have been brought if he had stayed inside and ignored the police."

Just so I know, the thinking here is....

Since they have no warrant, you don't have to talk to them and they cannot come inside, but I assume if you ignore them, they will leave and go get a warrant, come back, and by then you have an attorney?

Can they not arrest you for the suspicion of being involved before a warrant?

A warrant for what?

In this case, they had a complainant who said "X showed a gun to me in a threatening manner." They go to Y, whose attorney says "that didn't happen and I have advised my client not to make a statement."

IANAL, but I don't see how they could get a warrant for a search or for an arrest.

 

[Cap]

I know that all the "operators" here will jump on me for saying this, but this is the exact reason why some of the laws concerning brandishing need to be reworked.

If one can avoid a potentially deadly situation by presenting a firearm, then it is all for the better. There was a time when it was more common to have a gun then not, and people wouldn't mess with you as such. Shouldn't a deterrent be the first option before deadly force?

Fairly certain there is no MGL related to brandishing.

 

[M1911]

Fairly certain there is no MGL related to brandishing.

I believe you are correct. But I wonder if you would just get charged with assault with a deadly weapon instead.

 

[In God We Trust]

I believe you are correct. But I wonder if you would just get charged with assault with a deadly weapon instead.

Of course you can be. That does not mean you are guilty of a crime or will be convicted either. If I am stabbing you in the face and you shoot and kill me, you can and may very well be charged with murder also. There is NO LAW against presenting a gun at someone if you are reasonably in fear for your life. This is a frequently repeated myth. If showing a gun scares him off, leave it at that. There is no law that states you have to shoot someone if you pull your firearm.

When police are trained in the "force continuum" The second to last step is "presentation of deadly force" followed by "deadly force".

 

[slap shot]

OP's mistake was creating that silly scenario. It's a great video and worth watching,

Ignore the noise!

 

[goodlife30]

Also you never shoot anyone. You eliminated the threat as you were instructed. Rinse wash repeat.

 

[falcon123]

I know that all the "operators" here will jump on me for saying this, but this is the exact reason why some of the laws concerning brandishing need to be reworked.

If one can avoid a potentially deadly situation by presenting a firearm, then it is all for the better. There was a time when it was more common to have a gun then not, and people wouldn't mess with you as such. Shouldn't a deterrent be the first option before deadly force?

That would make too much sense. This shithole state gives you only 2 choices. Kill the scumbag or let him kill you.

 

[Skylineracer329]

If the police bang at your door and ask for you by name are you obligated to answer?

"Mr. Flintstone, this is the Boston Police Department and we want to talk to you".

I know you can decline to discuss without counsel, but is there an obligation to even acknowledge their request at your door?

Of course you don't have to acknowledge them at your door. Good luck proving that I'm home in the first place. Or, just come to the door and say "I don't open the door for police, have a good day".

 

[snd1t]

I would add that pulling up his shirt was the genesis of his problem. Walk away. Always walk away. The safest way forward for anyone is to check your pride in the gun safe. So what he thinks he was a big shot and he could kick your ass. Call the cops and let them deal with it.

This is probably the most important post so far in the thread with the possible exception of the vid in the OP.

check your pride at the safe and walk away......always walk away provided you can do so safely......and leave people alone...

 

[Nick Fury]

Call the cops and let them deal with it.

Before or after he pulls the phone out of his ass?

 

[Nick Fury]

I think the point here is what you DON'T say CAN'T be used against you. So keep your mouth shut!
In this scenario, if he had stayed in the house he could have had a lawyer before they had a warrant.

For those who can't help but get hung up on the details, this is the moral of the story.

 

[StevensMarksman]

The gun don't come out (EVER!) unless it's going to get used. Agree, don't talk to the cops.

StevensMarksman

 

[Nick Fury]

The gun don't come out (EVER!) unless it's going to get used. Agree, don't talk to the cops.

StevensMarksman

Sadly this +1.

 

[M1911]

Of course you don't have to acknowledge them at your door. Good luck proving that I'm home in the first place. Or, just come to the door and say "I don't open the door for police, have a good day".

I would speak to them through the door. When they say "we'd like to ask you a few questions," just say "I'll be glad to answer all your questions. I'll have my attorney call the station."

Then walk away.