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NES Bullet Casting Seminar

38ExtraSpecial

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Is anyone up for another seminar? I would love to help out if we have a place to host it.
The last seminar allowed me to shoot for 1/3 or less the cost of a normal reloader. I would love to be able to pass that on to some new shooters and reloaders.
Anyone interested?


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Yes. For anyone not familiar, a few of our members put on a couple of seminars. They touched on every aspect of bullet casting from bullet fit and slugging bores to smelting and alloying your own bullet metal. The seminar was a good day of hands on through all of the processes involved. It also included some cool door prizes.

I can say that casting is the best thing that has happened to me in the habit.... I mean hobby since I started reloading. It gives a deeper understanding of how things work and allows me to shoot for much less.
Now that duke is down in Florida he can't run things the way he did in the past. I say we get the band back together and teach the next generation or reloaders the joy of making their own bullets from scratch.

Who else is in? Any of the veterans willing to help out? Anyone that has a location we can use?


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keep em coming guys.

I think we have a location to host it in Southeastern MA. Pending response from the owner of the property.

So i was thinking about the layout and wanted to keep it true to past seminars.
Depending on the number of guys and gals that show up we could split into groups or if its small keep it one group through the whole thing.

Topic we would cover (we can tweak the list as we go)

Where to find lead and types of lead
Smelting and Tools - hands on - bring your own lead and leave with ingots
Alloying - discussion
Bore slugging - hands on - bring your barrels
Mould Basics - mould materials - lube groove styles - hollow point configurations.
Casting - Hands on - hopefully we can get as many casting pots as possible there, bottom pour and ladle dipping
Heat Treating/Water Dropping - Discussion
Hi-Tek bullet coating and 45-45-10 (or bens liquid lube) tumble lubing
Sizing/Lubing - hands on - again if anyone has sizers they can bring or single stage press so we can set them up with lee sizers that would be awesome
Q&A & Troubleshooting - discussion - leading, alloys, forcing cones, revolver cylinder throats

Maybe we can do a door prize or two.
Hoping we can do donuts/coffee and lunch also.

what am I missing?
 
Michael,

First of all...... Thank you for stepping up to the plate!! As you know, I was the guy who started the Cast Bullet workshops, primarily at the initial request of Bob Johnson, one of my earliest reloading class students!

Casting one's own bullets is a great way to reduce (to almost free) the cost of shooting. And, the one day workshop was designed to teach, in a hands on way, the methods, skills, and particulars, so that anyone could easily do it safely.

I documented the previous workshops, and links for those events are here:
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/124884-The-NES-Reloading-Info-Mega-Index

You will find a lot of great organizing information in those threads. Structuring the classes into the small rotating groups immensely helped with flow for the day.

You'll need to recruit some help!! While I'm pretty good at teaching, and organizing....... there was no way I could ever have done any of the bigger workshops by myself. Some of the guys who attended to learn are now very successful casters, and could lend support. Have someone head up each section, and take ownership of it, depending on what part they would like to do.

The system we used of requiring that each participant bring 10 or so pounds of lead as the "entrance fee" worked well, as long as they remained honest when taking home final ingots. Realize that there is some loss, and we used the ingots to also cast bullets for the day. So, the ten pounds of raw material you bring, might be as little as 5 pounds of take home.

Don't schedule it for the hottest day of the year. Smelting and casting are HOT work. I liked trying for a mid-winter promotion, and running the event in late May, when the weather is less rainy, and more dependable. However, gathering interest now, and running it in October or November would make equally good sense!

If you don;t already have my telephone number, send me a PM, and I'll get it to you. I am available for phone consultations. As you may remember, the last workshop I did was in the midst of dealing with cancer. I've been in remission for the past couple years, but it has returned. As a fund raiser, to pay for fuel back and forth to Mayo Clinic in Jacksonville, FL ( an hour and forty minutes each way), I am selling some custom made mold tappers over at castBoolits:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?279978-Custom-Mold-Tappers-for-Sale

I will DONATE two of these tappers to your workshop, as the first door prizes. I'll get them to you before the event!!

Thanks again for stepping up on this. I have always been passionate about sharing what I know. My free workshops were a great way of bringing some excitement to the subject of bullet casting.
 
Michael,

First of all...... Thank you for stepping up to the plate!! As you know, I was the guy who started the Cast Bullet workshops, primarily at the initial request of Bob Johnson, one of my earliest reloading class students!
thank you for teaching me. I have always felt this whole community of shooting and reloader were so generous with the tools and knowledge of the trade that the only thing I can do to repay you all is to pass the knowledge on to the next group

Casting one's own bullets is a great way to reduce (to almost free) the cost of shooting. And, the one day workshop was designed to teach, in a hands on way, the methods, skills, and particulars, so that anyone could easily do it safely.for anyone considering this even a tiny little bit. Listen to Duke. He's not joking. Lead can be had for near nothing most of the times so the primer and powder is the only real cost in reloading at that point. Around $45 for 1000 rounds of pistol ammo is a pretty nice price

I documented the previous workshops, and links for those events are here:
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/124884-The-NES-Reloading-Info-Mega-Index

You will find a lot of great organizing information in those threads. Structuring the classes into the small rotating groups immensely helped with flow for the day.

You'll need to recruit some help!! While I'm pretty good at teaching, and organizing....... there was no way I could ever have done any of the bigger workshops by myself. Some of the guys who attended to learn are now very successful casters, and could lend support. Have someone head up each section, and take ownership of it, depending on what part they would like to do. So far I have one helper that I taught how to cast. Lets see who else can step up and give a hand. I'm sure we can get a few guys together

The system we used of requiring that each participant bring 10 or so pounds of lead as the "entrance fee" worked well, as long as they remained honest when taking home final ingots. Realize that there is some loss, and we used the ingots to also cast bullets for the day. So, the ten pounds of raw material you bring, might be as little as 5 pounds of take home.

Don't schedule it for the hottest day of the year. Smelting and casting are HOT work. I liked trying for a mid-winter promotion, and running the event in late May, when the weather is less rainy, and more dependable. However, gathering interest now, and running it in October or November would make equally good sense!Right now I'm thinking late Sometime between September and November

If you don;t already have my telephone number, send me a PM, and I'll get it to you. I am available for phone consultations. As you may remember, the last workshop I did was in the midst of dealing with cancer. I've been in remission for the past couple years, but it has returned. As a fund raiser, to pay for fuel back and forth to Mayo Clinic in Jacksonville, FL ( an hour and forty minutes each way), I am selling some custom made mold tappers over at castBoolits:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?279978-Custom-Mold-Tappers-for-Sale

I will DONATE two of these tappers to your workshop, as the first door prizes. I'll get them to you before the event!! That is awesome Duke thank you! I saw the thread with those tapper and was really impressed. Beautiful work for sure.

Thanks again for stepping up on this. I have always been passionate about sharing what I know. My free workshops were a great way of bringing some excitement to the subject of bullet casting.
Thank you for all of the help. I'll shoot you a PM and we can discuss live. I'm sure you can give me some pointers. The last event i ran like this was a knife making seminar and that was about 5 years ago. I could use some brushing up

- - - Updated - - -

Thank you Jim.

Depending on how many guys we get that might be better. Lets see how this turns out.

I'm thinking of throwing together some propane tank smelting pots and possible some angle iron ingot moulds as door prizes also.
 
I'd be interested in attending. What would someone with no knowledge or tools have to bring?
 
We will get a check list together.
Basically bring some lead and safety gear and you're good to go. Heavy duty welding gloves and eye protection are a must. Full face shields are very welcome. I will make sure there are a couple shields there for anyone who is doing the hands on smelting.
Bring barrels that you would like to slug to check the bore size.
A good notebook and a phone with a camera would be great for note taking
 
I can donate ww or ingots. Take your pick. Doubt I can attend though.

Duke, sorry to hear about the new fight. Kick it again.
 
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I would be interested. But have zero knowledge. Let me know how I can help.
 
I'm thinking late september what do you guys think?
I'm going on a hunting trip to idaho in october so that limits my time.
I would like to do a Saturday because I work on Sundays. It would save me from having to get coverage.

So the
5th
12th
19th
27th

What do you guys think?
 
They're all ok.
Lee is inexpensive but you can run into quality control issues. That being said they always stand behind their product and will replace it for free.
They ddi just make some upgrades to their 2 cavity moulds so thats a plus. Price is awesome on them. they can be hand with handles for under $20. I like to think of it like a gateway mould. If you want to try a specific style of bullet you're not losing much money to get into it. They you can move up to a lee 6 cavity or one of the big manufacturers such as RCBS or Lyman for a steel mould, or right up to a custom with MP, NOE, or accurate. All of which can be had in exotic flavors and materials of your choice.

MP is mostly custom group buy stuff with long waits and always a few over runs available after the fact. he almost always works in brass. he uses a cramer style hollow point pin in his HP moulds

NOE stocks most of his mould on his web store. He also does custom group buy runs. He normally works in aluminum and sometimes brass. he uses the RG style hollow point pins in his HP moulds

Accurate runs custom moulds to your spec in Aluminum, Brass or Steel. He has a large catalog of designs to choose from or you can spec your own. I don't believe he does any hollow points. He has the fastest turn around of the custom guys from what I understand

Erik at hollowpointmould can mod your moulds to drop larger bullets, widen driving bands, and of course add hollow point pins in a few different varieties. I believe he still offers lee 2 cavity moulds fresh from the factory with his added HP options

That being said.
I own Lee, MP, Lyman and NOE.
I think the biggest difference in the actual casting routine for them is really in the materials. Different materials and block size and also cavity size can change the rate that the mould likes to be cast at to keep the temp just right for good bullets.
Obviously NOE makes a far superiors product than Lee in fit and finish and they also offers way more designs (some very very nice and some very very similar to lee) but I think they cast very similarly due to the fact they're both aluminum.

Buy what fits your budget to start and don't be afraid of what haters say about lee. I've gotten some lemons from Lee and they have always replaced them asap and kept me a happy customer. I can't complain when their 2 cavity moulds sell for $17 with handles and a 2 cavity custom NOE will run $72 plus another $11 for lee handles. When you find that special mould you know you want for a specific application then get the custom. If you're starting out and shoot massive amounts of lead at steel and paper that are 10 yards away then just get a lee 6 cavity and make a pile of bullets.
 
On the subject of molds, don't forget that there are also commercial companies, like Lyman (a Connecticut company), who make molds and tools for casting. Their iron molds are very durable, and cost effective. I'm making some gas checked 44 caliber (220 grain SWC), their mold 429215 (bullet drops at a weight of 215 grains, but when you add gas check and lube, it's at 220 grains. I shoot that in a Contender 10" bull barrel single shot pistol at steel targets at 250 feet away, and hit a 1" spot with ease! Open sights. Those molds make very accurate projectiles (bullets).

The point is.............. casting your own bullets doesn't mean a drop in the quality of what you are shooting. It's at least equivalent to what you already load now.

It's merely a chance, for those who are careful with our costs, to DRAMATICALLY reduce the cost of shooting. Remember.... the BULLET is always THE MOST EXPENSIVE component, and it's the one that most of you just throw away.

In my world, I am always scrounging lead. I try to make my lead supply COST be as close to zero cost as I can. Yes, there's the cost of propane and electricity for processing it. But, I am always mining the shooting berms, trading surplus brass for lead, etc. I have supplies of dead soft lead, raw and processed wheel weights, and lines of type (linotype). Those are the lead ingredients that allow you to custom blend the alloy for the bullets to match the velocity performance for the gun.

That reminds me... One of the great door prizes is to have someone print up, bind, and give away a free copy of Glen Fryxell's Book, "From Ingot to Target: A Cast Bullet Guide for Handgunners ".......... It's a great guide to casting information. I gave one away at a previous workshop.
The book is free to all, for the downloading:
http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm

or, in pdf format, if you prefer:
http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_textonly2.pdf

The beginners should feel comfortable that if they merely show up with the raw lead, supplies, tools, etc will be on hand to make the workshop training a complete day. You'll do it all, hands on, by the end of the day. That's the best way to learn.

You'll do it, and know how the safety things are done. What you need to get, buy, or make, and what you don't need. Lots of ways to save $$$ when casting. You'll know how to identify the various types of lead that you'll use (I have a sample box from the last workshop that I can ship), how to select and use the "smelting" equipment. How to select a melting pot, and tools, including molds. How to prepare molds and keep them safe. Lubing and Sizing are also steps that will be demonstrated. You'll likely even get to take home some finished castings, all set to load.

I've acquired dozens and dozens of molds over the years. I have molds for EVERYTHING that I shoot. I reload for everything that I shoot. The reloading becomes a part of the gun hobby, and I find that the hours of reloading and casting are as relaxing for me as is the shooting time. I recently even started casting for the 300 AAC Blackout! What a great way to almost remove all cost from that reloading!

So, even if you don't have any plans or funds to invest in a further level of your reloading interests, you should plan on attending. This knowledge is life lesson knowledge. And, you can quietly and simply ease into it, as your budget allows.
 
I won't be able to attend although I will try to helps.
I can donate wheel weights and some other lead items. Mostly flashing and lead pipe.
I will donate to anyone attending the seminar that does not have lead who is local enough to me to pick it up. I'm in Hanover Ma days and hanson/pembroke evenings. Or if it makes things easier I will donate the bucket of wheel weights I just got and the remaining lead I have from Fixxahs donation to me several years ago.


I will toss a few tips out there.
Check out thrift stores for "tools" or even a used restaurant supply store.
I found some really nice heavy duty muffin tins. Heavily coated in carbon for 5$ ea. They are incredible.
I have found many different cast iron items at thrift stores. From pots to others for ignots.
BIG TIP don't bother looking around the store ASK if they have any old nasty damaged pans.
I found some decent stainless spoons at the dollar store.
Yard sales: found a life time supply of bees wax candles.. again ask the people if they have any half used candles or what ever you need. Remember they are not trying to sell what they think is junk.
I scored my first pewter when I asked a women if she had any broken or burned out candles. Out she brings a box with candles and a bunch of bent, dented and miss matched pewter...5lbs. Now she knew the Peter was worth something and made me pay 1$ for each item....12$
Then the candles she hit me up for steep 5$. Those are beeswax ya know..... price out beeswax nowadays.

I scored my high pressure turkey cooker from a yard sale. Owner bought it to use at a large party. I got the tank which yielded 500lbs of smelted lead and the regulator stand and pot for 25$.
The only things I paid hard cash for was the respirator and face shield. I choose to wear a respirator when smelting down the wheel weights. They are painted and coated with some nasty stuff.

Lead is still out there you just need to look for it. Don't be afraid to ask every source.
Even your dentist. Mine has his taken away and was getting more than I was willing to pay.
Although he said the lead shielding foil is micro thin now and nothing like days gone by.

Ask old plumbers. I scored a life time of 70/30 soldier for a cup of coffee and some doughnuts.
"Just get it out of my basement"
 
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On the subject of molds, don't forget that there are also commercial companies, like Lyman (a Connecticut company), who make molds and tools for casting. Their iron molds are very durable, and cost effective. I'm making some gas checked 44 caliber (220 grain SWC), their mold 429215 (bullet drops at a weight of 215 grains, but when you add gas check and lube, it's at 220 grains. I shoot that in a Contender 10" bull barrel single shot pistol at steel targets at 250 feet away, and hit a 1" spot with ease! Open sights. Those molds make very accurate projectiles (bullets).

The point is.............. casting your own bullets doesn't mean a drop in the quality of what you are shooting. It's at least equivalent to what you already load now.

It's merely a chance, for those who are careful with our costs, to DRAMATICALLY reduce the cost of shooting. Remember.... the BULLET is always THE MOST EXPENSIVE component, and it's the one that most of you just throw away.

In my world, I am always scrounging lead. I try to make my lead supply COST be as close to zero cost as I can. Yes, there's the cost of propane and electricity for processing it. But, I am always mining the shooting berms, trading surplus brass for lead, etc. I have supplies of dead soft lead, raw and processed wheel weights, and lines of type (linotype). Those are the lead ingredients that allow you to custom blend the alloy for the bullets to match the velocity performance for the gun.

That reminds me... One of the great door prizes is to have someone print up, bind, and give away a free copy of Glen Fryxell's Book, "From Ingot to Target: A Cast Bullet Guide for Handgunners ".......... It's a great guide to casting information. I gave one away at a previous workshop.
The book is free to all, for the downloading:
http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm

or, in pdf format, if you prefer:
http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_textonly2.pdf

The beginners should feel comfortable that if they merely show up with the raw lead, supplies, tools, etc will be on hand to make the workshop training a complete day. You'll do it all, hands on, by the end of the day. That's the best way to learn.

You'll do it, and know how the safety things are done. What you need to get, buy, or make, and what you don't need. Lots of ways to save $$$ when casting. You'll know how to identify the various types of lead that you'll use (I have a sample box from the last workshop that I can ship), how to select and use the "smelting" equipment. How to select a melting pot, and tools, including molds. How to prepare molds and keep them safe. Lubing and Sizing are also steps that will be demonstrated. You'll likely even get to take home some finished castings, all set to load.

I've acquired dozens and dozens of molds over the years. I have molds for EVERYTHING that I shoot. I reload for everything that I shoot. The reloading becomes a part of the gun hobby, and I find that the hours of reloading and casting are as relaxing for me as is the shooting time. I recently even started casting for the 300 AAC Blackout! What a great way to almost remove all cost from that reloading!

So, even if you don't have any plans or funds to invest in a further level of your reloading interests, you should plan on attending. This knowledge is life lesson knowledge. And, you can quietly and simply ease into it, as your budget allows.

Thank you Duke. I think you hit the nail on the head. Even if someone doesn't think they're going to jump in with both feet it's a great day full of knowledge and fun for anyone interested in the sport. It gives you a better understanding of how it all works.
I'll make sure to print a couple copies of the PDF

Also if anyone is interested I have a copy of the alloy calculator in excel. Basically a nice guide to show you composition of different alloys. It's loaded with formulas so if you pop in your weight of alloys say 10 pounds of pure 10 pounds of magnum shot and 1 pound of pewter it will spit out the composition of your blended alloy and a rough idea of what the brinell hardness is. It's nice to have handy.
I usually mix my clip on wheel weights (COWW) 50/50 with pure lead. When I can't find any COWW I use my stash of pure and add some shot and Linotype to make a mock COWW alloy and cut from there.

It's been more than a few years since I cast any lead. But I could bring a Lyman furnace, lube sizer and some ingot and bullet moulds to the party.

Thank you. Any help is appreciated.

I won't be able to attend although I will try to helps.
I can donate wheel weights and some other lead items. Mostly flashing and lead pipe.
I will donate to anyone attending the seminar that does not have lead who is local enough to me to pick it up. I'm in Hanover Ma days and hanson/pembroke evenings. Or if it makes things easier I will donate the bucket of wheel weights I just got and the remaining lead I have from Fixxahs donation to me several years ago.


I will toss a few tips out there.
Check out thrift stores for "tools" or even a used restaurant supply store.
I found some really nice heavy duty muffin tins. Heavily coated in carbon for 5$ ea. They are incredible.
I have found many different cast iron items at thrift stores. From pots to others for ignots.
BIG TIP don't bother looking around the store ASK if they have any old nasty damaged pans.
I found some decent stainless spoons at the dollar store.
Yard sales: found a life time supply of bees wax candles.. again ask the people if they have any half used candles or what ever you need. Remember they are not trying to sell what they think is junk.
I scored my first pewter when I asked a women if she had any broken or burned out candles. Out she brings a box with candles and a bunch of bent, dented and miss matched pewter...5lbs. Now she knew the Peter was worth something and made me pay 1$ for each item....12$
Then the candles she hit me up for steep 5$. Those are beeswax ya know..... price out beeswax nowadays.

I scored my high pressure turkey cooker from a yard sale. Owner bought it to use at a large party. I got the tank which yielded 500lbs of smelted lead and the regulator stand and pot for 25$.
The only things I paid hard cash for was the respirator and face shield. I choose to wear a respirator when smelting down the wheel weights. They are painted and coated with some nasty stuff.

Lead is still out there you just need to look for it. Don't be afraid to ask every source.
Even your dentist. Mine has his taken away and was getting more than I was willing to pay.
Although he said the lead shielding foil is micro thin now and nothing like days gone by.

Ask old plumbers. I scored a life time of 70/30 soldier for a cup of coffee and some doughnuts.
"Just get it out of my basement"

You're right Mac. Scrounging is the best way. Once you start to tell people that you're looking for lead it seems to pop up all the time. My brother in law saves me all the lead from his chimney work, a friend who owns a bike shop has saved random bits of lead he found for me, a plumber gives me tons of old scrap he pulls off of jobs, i've found a bunch of solder and pewter at yard sales for pennies a pound. Same goes for tools. I found a great cast iron ingot mould (baking pan) a couple weeks ago for $5
Not to mention ranges will normally let you pick the loose bullets off of the top of the berm (some don't allow you to mine the berm for them) In about a minutes i had 3 or 4 pounds of lead last time I hit the range. Recycling at its best
 
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Thank you Duke. I think you hit the nail on the head. Even if someone doesn't think they're going to jump in with both feet it's a great day full of knowledge and fun for anyone interested in the sport. It gives you a better understanding of how it all works.
I'll make sure to print a couple copies of the PDF

Also if anyone is interested I have a copy of the alloy calculator in excel. Basically a nice guide to show you composition of different alloys. It's loaded with formulas so if you pop in your weight of alloys say 10 pounds of pure 10 pounds of magnum shot and 1 pound of pewter it will spit out the composition of your blended alloy and a rough idea of what the brinell hardness is. It's nice to have handy.
I usually mix my clip on wheel weights (COWW) 50/50 with pure lead. When I can't find any COWW I use my stash of pure and add some shot and Linotype to make a mock COWW alloy and cut from there.



Thank you. Any help is appreciated.



You're right Mac. Scrounging is the best way. Once you start to tell people that you're looking for lead it seems to pop up all the time. My brother in law saves me all the lead from his chimney work, a friend who owns a bike shop has saved random bits of lead he found for me, a plumber gives me tons of old scrap he pulls off of jobs, i've found a bunch of solder and pewter at yard sales for pennies a pound. Same goes for tools. I found a great cast iron ingot mould (baking pan) a couple weeks ago for $5
Not to mention ranges will normally let you pick the loose bullets off of the top of the berm (some don't allow you to mine the berm for them) In about a minutes i had 3 or 4 pounds of lead last time I hit the range. Recycling at its best

I can easily pick up range lead right from the surface. The 3 clubs I have access don't allow you to set foot on the berms though. Believe me once you get a eye for what the bullet looks like among the rocks and dirt they start to pop out. Another thing to do is watch the area behind the targets. I find 80% of my bullets approx 6 feet from the common yardage lines. Ex: when people are shooting paper targets @ 15 yard line. The bullets tend to go through the paper and tumble or drop quickly. So look about 6-10 feet from the target. 25yards I look around 27 yards or so.
I'm not pushing my cast hard so range lead , wheel weights seem to be working just fine.
My fastest loads are hardly fast enough for any special alloy.

Now for those who live in tight neighbor hoods and smelting could be next to impossible try to hook up with someone who smelts and make a deal or just collect lead when ever possible sell it to off set buying ignots.
I get 100lbs plus of usable lead of nice clean sorted wheel weights a year from a old shooter.
All he ask for in turn is 1000 9mm cast bullets. Not a big deal for me. It goes quick with the 6 cavity mold I use.... he's a good source of soldier and brass.
 
good point

i do have a couple friends that are not set up for making ingots or can't get their hands on wheel weights.
they trade me lead for ingots or pure ingots for ww ingots. either way there's always some horse trading to be done
 
I'd love to learn. I've always been interested. I even bought the lyman lead bullet reloading manual. Good read, but I can see how some details might be left out that could easily be filled in by someone who does this all the time.
 
Michael Spangler
asp
warwickben
DrBurnsides
Knob Creek
familyman15
Shootfirst
Houdini
J.A.C.
yogi

We're at 10 so far.

The venue Mike has in mind can hold 25 at most. Parking, "classroom" space, and workbench space would be very tight at that point. I'm inclined to say that it could work rain or shine, though rain would be more difficult with that many people. Plus, smelting in the rain is not safe.

Jim, how does this compare to Shirley's accommodations?
 
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