Need some help with shooting technique

[floriduh]

I agree, but I thought the discussion was what are the fundamentals, and what's the best way to learn them. I personally don't think the steel plate rack is the best place to learn the basics. Sort of like learning to drive a car: you don't take lessons at the Daytona Speedway.

Look up Bill Rogers and his methods, all he teaches on is steel, it's the only thing, . His whole course, that seals sf and marines use is steel based. they have built. his patented ranges all over the military. the fundamentals do not change one bit when you are shooting on steel, saying that is foolish. you can either apply them, or you cannot.

my suggestion is to start at 5 yards and get to grouping, build you confidence. shooting a pistol at 25 yards is great for bullseye, but in reality most shootings/the need to use a pistol, occur much closer and that is where the focus should be.

 

[floriduh]

one more thing to add, I think shooting on steel is actually better then paper because when you shoot paper, especially at longer distances, the natural tendency is to look where you hit, which can lead to a form of anticipation. with steel, you get instant feedback. you either hit and hear it, or you don't. instant feedback, very beneficial to shooters.

 

[EddieCoyle]

Obligatory handgun error chart:
Encyclopedia of Bullseye Pistol

I find this chart to be a bit more accurate (and it works for both rightys and leftys):

 

[PatMcD]

Look up Bill Rogers and his methods, all he teaches on is steel, it's the only thing, . His whole course, that seals sf and marines use is steel based. they have built. his patented ranges all over the military. the fundamentals do not change one bit when you are shooting on steel, saying that is foolish. you can either apply them, or you cannot.

my suggestion is to start at 5 yards and get to grouping, build you confidence. shooting a pistol at 25 yards is great for bullseye, but in reality most shootings/the need to use a pistol, occur much closer and that is where the focus should be.

I guess I'll have to be foolish, then.


I'm not saying shooting steel is a bad thing. I'm saying if someone is just starting out or is having problems hitting anything, you might want to start on paper where you can see where the shots are going. If I miss the steel plate how do I know what to do to to remedy it?
I'm not setting myself out there as a great pistol shooter, either. I'm not. I'm fair,..... maybe,... on a good day, at conventional bullseye shooting. I look at steel shooting, or IDPA, IPSC, etc. as advanced types of pistol shooting; shooting that is done after one has mastered the fundamentals. The fundamentals, in my book, are 1. SAFETY, and 2. putting the round exactly where you want it.
Speed, drawing from a holster, shooting from concealment, fast reloads, etc.: none of it will get you anywhere unless you can hit what you are aiming at.

I'll stand by my Daytona comment. You need to learn to crawl before you can walk.

 

[DNTTexan]

Look up Bill Rogers and his methods, all he teaches on is steel, it's the only thing, . His whole course, that seals sf and marines use is steel based. they have built. his patented ranges all over the military. the fundamentals do not change one bit when you are shooting on steel, saying that is foolish. you can either apply them, or you cannot.

my suggestion is to start at 5 yards and get to grouping, build you confidence. shooting a pistol at 25 yards is great for bullseye, but in reality most shootings/the need to use a pistol, occur much closer and that is where the focus should be.

This whole argument about steel vs. paper seems to be missing the point that OP was consistently completely missing the targets. Getting some additional information about where he was missing seems like useful data to help identify what he might be doing wrong, and bigger paper is easier to come by than bigger steel (and less time consuming to replace or tape than repainting steel). Moving closer to the target is the geometric equivalent of getting a bigger target, so it could produce a similar result. I don't know where he's shooting, but some ranges limit such behavior, so I at least assumed a fixed distance to the targets. I'm not an expert on shooting steel, but I've seen a certain amount of shrapnel coming off of steel targets, so I'd assume you'd want to avoid getting too close to them. Bottom line, I think he'd be able to solicit more focused (if still likely to be conflicting) advice if he had more data, and that would be easier to come by with a big paper target.

 

[floriduh]

I guess I'll have to be foolish, then.


I'm not saying shooting steel is a bad thing. I'm saying if someone is just starting out or is having problems hitting anything, you might want to start on paper where you can see where the shots are going. If I miss the steel plate how do I know what to do to to remedy it?
I'm not setting myself out there as a great pistol shooter, either. I'm not. I'm fair,..... maybe,... on a good day, at conventional bullseye shooting. I look at steel shooting, or IDPA, IPSC, etc. as advanced types of pistol shooting; shooting that is done after one has mastered the fundamentals. The fundamentals, in my book, are 1. SAFETY, and 2. putting the round exactly where you want it.
Speed, drawing from a holster, shooting from concealment, fast reloads, etc.: none of it will get you anywhere unless you can hit what you are aiming at.

I'll stand by my Daytona comment. You need to learn to crawl before you can walk.

no offense intended, Pat - you obviously know how to shoot.

back to Daytona, you don't have to start a person on go carts to have them, or make them a nascar driver. even basic shooters/ drivers can learn proper technique if started at an " advanced" level, just as long as they are trained correctly.

 

[namedpipes]

I guess I'll have to be foolish, then.


I'm not saying shooting steel is a bad thing. I'm saying if someone is just starting out or is having problems hitting anything, you might want to start on paper where you can see where the shots are going. If I miss the steel plate how do I know what to do to to remedy it?
I'm not setting myself out there as a great pistol shooter, either. I'm not. I'm fair,..... maybe,... on a good day, at conventional bullseye shooting. I look at steel shooting, or IDPA, IPSC, etc. as advanced types of pistol shooting; shooting that is done after one has mastered the fundamentals. The fundamentals, in my book, are 1. SAFETY, and 2. putting the round exactly where you want it.
Speed, drawing from a holster, shooting from concealment, fast reloads, etc.: none of it will get you anywhere unless you can hit what you are aiming at.

I'll stand by my Daytona comment. You need to learn to crawl before you can walk.

As you suggest, if you can't hit "anything", start with the fundamentals you and others have listed.

Beyond that, the "sill" that lays on that foundation depends on your purpose in shooting.

Recreation: Do whatever floats your boat. It really doesn't matter, if you're enjoying yourself.

Self Defense: Be able to "clang" the target. If you consistently make contact at various ranges and conditions, you're doing fine. Steel is fine for that. So are paper targets and feedback cards. So are soda bottles filled with colored water. Pumpkins... Cats...

Competition: I dunno. I'm more in the OP's boat.

 

[HKdrummer]

The following video helped me a ton with my grip. Once i figured my grip out, my aim improved dramatically.
Tweaking the Grip by Gomez-Training.com - YouTube


RIP Paul Gomez

So I just got back from a quick trip to the range. As I don't have any sort of "real" handgun, my buddy wanted to run through a few rounds of his newly purchased HK P30, so I took him down to the range. So as it turns out, it was most definitely my grip and how I held the gun, not flinching. I changed my grip to a two thumbs forward which I could tell had a better feel and control for me. Right off the bat, I walked right down the row of steel targets hitting 8 out of 10 with 10 rounds. Confidence restored!

Thanks for all the advice and big kudos to Leewongfei for posting this video, it helped immensely! Now knowing I know how to shoot a handgun really makes me want to finally get a nice handgun after all these years

 

[marleythefish]

i haven't read all the posts but i would suggest you have an eye dominance issue. wouldnt be a problem with a rifle but will be with a pistol. it could be the other things mentioned but even with those issues youd still hit the barn, wrong eye= miss the barn.

 

[Deleted member 12999]

i haven't read all the posts but i would suggest you have an eye dominance issue. wouldnt be a problem with a rifle but will be with a pistol. it could be the other things mentioned but even with those issues youd still hit the barn, wrong eye= miss the barn.

Uhhh.... Kind of the opposite. Eye dominance is easier compensated for with a pistol than a rifle.

 

[HKdrummer]

i haven't read all the posts but i would suggest you have an eye dominance issue. wouldnt be a problem with a rifle but will be with a pistol. it could be the other things mentioned but even with those issues youd still hit the barn, wrong eye= miss the barn.

Negatory big papi, turns out it was grip. Changed it up and had drastically better results. Now I have a new problem.....I want to buy the HK p30.....

 

[Franco]

A real high quality handgun(any caliber) with a decent sight radius, barrel length and sturdy sights would of saved you a lot of aggravation along with regular practice. The cheap stuff out there does not really lend a hand to accuracy and forget about precision. It leaves the newbie always second guessing themselves. Not to say it cant be done its just harder for some.

The p22 sight is a joke it can come loose and fall off. If your front sight looses position just .005" thats roughly 2" at 25 yards off, think about that. Then add in all your other errors.

 

[Lil Foo]

Would someone mind explaining shooting with both eyes open?

 

[Franco]

Would someone mind explaining shooting with both eyes open?

Gives you situational awareness, and less fatigue and stress from clenching your eye shut.

 

[HKdrummer]

A real high quality handgun(any caliber) with a decent sight radius, barrel length and sturdy sights would of saved you a lot of aggravation along with regular practice. The cheap stuff out there does not really lend a hand to accuracy and forget about precision. It leaves the newbie always second guessing themselves. Not to say it cant be done its just harder for some.

The p22 sight is a joke it can come loose and fall off. If your front sight looses position just .005" thats roughly 2" at 25 yards off, think about that. Then add in all your other errors.

This is true, but this followed suit with a myriad of other handguns I tried. I can tell from actually doing it that the grip, for me, was what made all the difference. Changed how the gun felt, how sturdy I was, and the recovery for the follow up.

 

[Lil Foo]

Gives you situational awareness, and less fatigue and stress from clenching your eye shut.

Both good advantages to have... But how do you prevent double imaging? While focusing on the front sight, I see double rear sight and double target???

 

[M1911]

Unless I'm up close, I have to close my weak eye.

 

[bill o]

Both good advantages to have... But how do you prevent double imaging? While focusing on the front sight, I see double rear sight and double target???

See one target then raise the gun and aim through the ghost sights. With practice you can focus on the front sight while your eyes remain converged on the target. Always see one target, no matter what.

 

[*chris*]

Would someone mind explaining shooting with both eyes open?

Look in the mirror when you are holding one eye shut, your answer will be very apparent! Basically, all your facial muscles slightly twitch when holding one eye closed. If you are experiencing double vision, are you cross-eye dominant and using the wrong eye?

Chris

 

[M1911]

Look in the mirror when you are holding one eye shut, your answer will be very apparent! Basically, all your facial muscles slightly twitch when holding one eye closed. If you are experiencing double vision, are you cross-eye dominant and using the wrong eye?

Chris

Nope, I'm not cross dominant.

 

[slap shot]

Head down, left arm straight, eye on the ball and follow through.

 

[Lil Foo]

I'm pretty sure I'm not cross eye dominant... I'm right handed and have used my right eye as dominant for everything (photography, videography, long guns and handguns). I can use my left eye, but my reflex is to squint it / close it in all those categories. So reflex that I have to retrain not to close it when acquiring sight picture.

I'm not so sure my difficulty with double imaging isn't due to needing reading glasses... Which is a new development for me over the last few years. :/

 

[M1911]

No, glasses doesn't have anything to do with it.

 

[bill o]

Look in the mirror when you are holding one eye shut, your answer will be very apparent! Basically, all your facial muscles slightly twitch when holding one eye closed. If you are experiencing double vision, are you cross-eye dominant and using the wrong eye?

Chris

Cross dominance has nothing to do with seeing double. It's the angle your eyes are pointing.

 

[bill o]

I'm pretty sure I'm not cross eye dominant... I'm right handed and have used my right eye as dominant for everything (photography, videography, long guns and handguns). I can use my left eye, but my reflex is to squint it / close it in all those categories. So reflex that I have to retrain not to close it when acquiring sight picture.

I'm not so sure my difficulty with double imaging isn't due to needing reading glasses... Which is a new development for me over the last few years. :/

It has nothing to do with glasses. It's the nature of binocular vision.