Need some help from Smith and Wesson connoisseurs of NES.

Look for a model 547. It's unusual, very rare and an outstanding shooter.

STAY OUT OF MY HEAD!

Seriously, after that post I made about the Lew Horton guns, I started looking around for unusual Smiths, and the 547 popped straight onto my list when I saw it. Another cool looking shooter, and unique to boot.

List looks like:

629
M17
610
625

And possibly one of the .41 magnums. Our maybe the magnum Patton had, though I can't recall the model.
 
Best thread for a while! Personally, I've long desired a 627 with a 5" and that cool matte stainless finish. Plus, 8 rounds of .357 will hold your attention no matter which side of the barrel you're on.
 
Get an old school 29 in high polish nickel.

I was looking for a deer revolver last year and found one nearly new. I found a gun camo paint kit on Brownells and now it's my deer gun. It really does look nice in nickel. The paint comes off with mineral spirits so it's easy to remove.

That's it below, along with a 6" 686 and a 4" 66.

I second the suggestion of a 617. I like the 10 shot with a 4" barrel.


Don


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I think you're on the right track to avoid the IL revolvers, not because I think the lock will present problems, but because it's ugly and a constant reminder of the intrusion of government into our lives.

You've already had many good suggestions, but if you're headed in the direction of being an S&W purist, then look to buy so-called "P&R" revolvers. The "P" refers to a small cross-pin that secures the barrel and the "R" refers to recessed (counterbored) chambers on the magnum and rimfire models. P&Rs are worth more to most die-hard S&W collectors, not necessarily because they're better but because they don't make 'em that way any more. Both features were dropped around 1982 - I think the new rimfires may still be recessed - so some of the models recommended to you (and the 586 that started all this) were never P&R, but for those that were made that way (the Model 10 that you're looking for, for example, which of course would be only "P"), it's worth looking for.
 
Wow, I really had no idea how much I didn't know! Looks like I'm going to need to rethink my list, and see if perhaps I can add some of your suggestions. I can already tell that I need a comprehensive book about S&W revolvers. Anybody know a book like that, detailing history and what not?

Plus, I was thinking about one of those top break revolvers Smith made back in the day. I seem to remember they were initially made in .44 Russian, but I think they made some in .44 Special.
 
I may need more than 5 revolvers.....this is going to get expensive.:p

The birth of a collector...

There's an S&W forum that you may want to look at; lots of die-hard S&W fans there. Might pick up some more info that way.

You might also want to keep a watch on the NES member forum; we've had a few trips out to S&W to take tours of the manufacturing plant. That's one fascinating day, let me tell you! I'd suggest you keep an eye out for the next time one gets scheduled.
 
dwarven1:2065068 said:
I may need more than 5 revolvers.....this is going to get expensive.:p

The birth of a collector...

There's an S&W forum that you may want to look at; lots of die-hard S&W fans there. Might pick up some more info that way.

You might also want to keep a watch on the NES member forum; we've had a few trips out to S&W to take tours of the manufacturing plant. That's one fascinating day, let me tell you! I'd suggest you keep an eye out for the next time one gets scheduled.

I generally don't wander down to MA much, but I sure would for that! I'm off to peruse the S&W forum. Should be a learning experience.
 
you could go with nickle, and get a J frame (M36), a K frame (M15 or M19) and an N frame (M29):

Web 3beauties.jpg


or a Model 10, probably the most available and least expensive .38 out there:
10-5left 800x485.jpg


or you could go blue:
5 sws 800x697.jpg


or a pre 17
k22right 800x395.jpg




Blue is nice but nickle is NICE !

I only had 1 stainless gun and while a very nice gun, it was just too 'today' for me.

Buy something from the 50's, 60's or 70's and you'll get a much nicer gun.
 
Pilgrim:2065160 said:
you could go with nickle, and get a J frame (M36), a K frame (M15 or M19) and an N frame (M29):

Web 3beauties.jpg


or a Model 10, probably the most available and least expensive .38 out there:
10-5left 800x485.jpg


or you could go blue:
5 sws 800x697.jpg


or a pre 17
k22right 800x395.jpg




Blue is nice but nickle is NICE !

I only had 1 stainless gun and while a very nice gun, it was just too 'today' for me.

Buy something from the 50's, 60's or 70's and you'll get a much nicer gun.

My wallet, bank account and credit card are filing a lawsuit against you.
 
I think you're on the right track to avoid the IL revolvers, not because I think the lock will present problems, but because it's ugly and a constant reminder of the intrusion of government into our lives.

How's that? The lock is the signature of the firm that liberated S&W from the Clinton agreement.
 
I picked up The Standard Catalog of Smith and Wesson last night at BN. Man, that was depressing. I thought I knew SOMETHING about S+W revolvers, but honestly I didn't know enough to fill up one page of that gigantic compendium. I read through it last night for about 3 hours. I have a lot more reading to do.

I should have known though. When my friend Jim used to talk about different models of Smiths, he could go on for hours.
 
Perhaps you could go the unfluted route.

I tend to like the look of unfluted revolvers over the usual fluted cylinder. Almost every S&W model at one point or another, had a unfluted cylinder as a option.

Here are a few of mine as examples...

ignore the IL on this one.
748467705209_0_ALB1.jpg


IMG_1009.jpg


IMG_0427-1.jpg
[/IMG]
 
There's lots of hate for the lock, and I can totally understand it. I've owned locked and unlocked Smiths, and have noticed absolutely no functional differences. It's an issue that has no impact on what ends up in my safe. From some of the gunsmiths I've chatted with, the lock is not only a non-issue but most hold the newer Smiths in high regard in terms of long term strength and durability.

For example, a few years ago I ended up with a model 19 from the 70's. I called Smith about it for a date of manufacture and they warned me not to use .357 in it. At all. I emailed and called several nationally known revolversmiths and though many of them thought Smith was blowing smoke, several said that the older guns (especially K frames) are relatively fragile compared to the more recent guns. Of course everyone has an opinion, and we all know what they're worth. The fact that Smith warned me directly gave me cause for pause, and I made the decision to stop the hunt for the vintage smiths as I'm not a collector.

One of the favorite Smith wheelguns I've shot is the 627 Pro. It's an all-steel N frame .357 8 shot with a 4" barrel. It's rugged enough to digest the stoutest .357's, and even 200 grainers are a total breeze. I also find that the larger framed Smiths just fit my hands right. The Pro is dished for moon clips which is a nice little bonus. Something about this wheelgun just feels right to me.
 
For example, a few years ago I ended up with a model 19 from the 70's. I called Smith about it for a date of manufacture and they warned me not to use .357 in it. At all.
I've got a 66-1, manufactured between 1978 and 1982. I know the previous owner shot a lot of .357 through it. I've shot some as well. I've seen no problems.
 
. . .

For example, a few years ago I ended up with a model 19 from the 70's. I called Smith about it for a date of manufacture and they warned me not to use .357 in it. At all. I emailed and called several nationally known revolversmiths and though many of them thought Smith was blowing smoke, several said that the older guns (especially K frames) are relatively fragile compared to the more recent guns. Of course everyone has an opinion, and we all know what they're worth. The fact that Smith warned me directly gave me cause for pause, and I made the decision to stop the hunt for the vintage smiths as I'm not a collector.

. . . .

I think there's a little confusion and some potential misinformation here. The .357 Combat Magnum, which became the Model 19 in 1957 when Smith started model numbering, was designed at a time when the standard .357 load was a 158-gr. lead bullet driven at what today would be considered moderate pressure and velocity for the cartridge. It was known at the time that the flat spot on the bottom on the barrel/forcing cone area in all K-frames (even though the Model 19 was built on a modified K-frame that was a bit larger in the yoke area) was a potential weakness, but with the load the gun was intended to fire there was never a problem, even though you will find those who claim the gun was really designed to shoot .38 Special in practice and only to be carried, and occasionally shot, with .357.

Subsequently, jacketed bullets led to the development of hotter .357 loads that the gun was never designed for, and shorter 125-gr. bullets allowed high-pressure hot gasses to escape the barrel/cylinder gap while the bullet was still engaging the rifling, something that was not an issue with the longer 158-gr. bullets. All of this resulted in reports of flame-cutting and cracked forcing cones, which are real, though comparatively rare, issues that led to the development of the beefier L-frame that is used currently for the Model 686 (and previously for the 586, 581, and 681).

None of this should be interpreted to mean there was some design flaw with the earlier Model 19s, and certainly is not an indication that older Smiths are "relatively fragile" - they most certainly are not. And with regard to the admonition from Smith that you should not fire .357s in a Model 19, that's the first time I've ever heard that one. Most shooters will wear themselves out before they run into any issues shooting .357s, particularly with heavier bullets, in the M19, and older Smith revolvers remain some of the best examples of quality firearms ever made. If you like the modern versions with the IL, that's fine - they're for the most part well-made and take advantage of modern materials and machining, but many of us prefer to own, and shoot, guns that are reminders of an earlier time when individual craftsmanship was held in higher regard.
 
The lock can be removed in about 10 minutes with no permanent changes to the gun or any parts.

When you sell it, you just put he parts back in.

Don

[video=youtube_share;RVPYgohVCNM]http://youtu.be/RVPYgohVCNM[/video]
 
None of this should be interpreted to mean there was some design flaw with the earlier Model 19s, and certainly is not an indication that older Smiths are "relatively fragile" - they most certainly are not. And with regard to the admonition from Smith that you should not fire .357s in a Model 19, that's the first time I've ever heard that one. Most shooters will wear themselves out before they run into any issues shooting .357s, particularly with heavier bullets, in the M19, and older Smith revolvers remain some of the best examples of quality firearms ever made. If you like the modern versions with the IL, that's fine - they're for the most part well-made and take advantage of modern materials and machining, but many of us prefer to own, and shoot, guns that are reminders of an earlier time when individual craftsmanship was held in higher regard.

I'm certainly not trying to spread any misinformation. I'm simply providing a fact, and I leave it to others to make use of it as they see fit.

The fact is:

I was told directly by Smith and Wesson not to fire any .357 in my 70's era model 19 as it could damage the firearm. I even asked the question of occasional .357 loads, and let me repeat that Smith advised none.

Who knows? Maybe this guy didn't have a clue. Maybe he was having a bad day. Maybe he was towing a party line dreamed up by Smith attorneys. Isn't it strange though? Doesn't it give you just a little cause for pause?

I also want to add that several revolver smiths that I called when I was getting advice about my model 19 said the same thing you did: shoot it and don't think about it. Let me also say that most advised me to keep the .357 loads to a minium in a K frame, and some even agreed with Smith and Wesson: do not fire .357 from the gun. Where does that put me? S&W said no .357 in a 19, and most of the gunsmiths said keep .357 at a minium. It means for my purposes, a model 19 won't work.

Since I like to shoot, and I like to shoot full house loads, I have decided that the modern N and L frames are where I like to live. It's not because I'm concerned that a vintage Smith will explode on me, but because that little bit of doubt has entered my mind. More vintage Smiths for everyone else I guess!

The point of my post is not to disparage the vintage Smiths. I just am wary of the way folks romanticize the older guns. You yourself said that when you hold an older Smith you get nostalgic. I can appreciate that, but I just don't feel the same way. A gun is a tool regardless of how it's made. If it performs, it performs. If it suffers from potential durability issues on the loads I want to shoot, than regardless of how "handmade" it is it doesn't belong in my safe. The manufacturer directly tells me that the gun in question cannot handle the loads I want to shoot in the gun, I lose a little faith in the gun. Again, I'm not a collector so perhaps we differ on that front.

I still like the older N frames, and from what I've heard they are quite durable. I probably have a pre-lock 629 in my future.
 
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If you look at a K frame .357 you will see that the botom of the forcing cone has been machined flat for clearance.

If you look at a L frame (586, 686, etc) you will see that the slightly larger frame allows the forcing cone to maintain its total thickness around its complete circumference. i.e. no flat machined into one side.

It is on the flat spot of the forcing cone where cracks happen.
I was told this by a S&W PC gunsmith who I used to shoot with.

So I don't consider it to be really spreading an OWT. Practically speaking the whole issue means nothing to me. I've got 900 rounds of .357 that I got in a trade and still don't shoot it much out of my K frame (66) or my L frame(686).
Call me a wuss, but I'd rather just shoot .38.

Don

Model 66 - K Frame - Notice the thinned wall thickness where the flat was machined in.

016ec4d7.jpg


Model 686 - L Frame - Notice the full thickness forcing cone

43ca0bf4.jpg


And just for yucks, here's a model 29 .44 magnum N frame.

e99bbd53.jpg
 
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I went on a N-frame target bing for a while there - finest wheel guns ever made, IMO.
The three in the middle are a Pre-29 (44mag) in satin nickel, a Pre-27 (357mag), and a model of 1955 (45ACP). All pre lock.
2011-08-13_16-11-09_141.jpg
 
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