Need fallacies!

Back to topic of thread.... tough trying to find a true fallacy because you need real facts and stats to back up an assertation. Like the Obamacare thing, yea it seems a fallacy, but it's still being debated so tough to write a paper on it without it being somewhat based on opinion. Someone mentioned the rifles killing stats, that might work because you can PROVE that they aren't used in many individual attacks.

Exactly. I was just talking to Chris about this. Not only do I have to back up the fallacies with facts proving that they are, in fact, a fallacy, but I also have to provide the original place where it was said. So I can't just go "ar15s are assault weapons. fallacy." I have to provide a quote from someone that SAID that an ar15 was an assault weapon, and then disprove it. But all the stuff being thrown out here is giving me the ideas I need to go find these quote and articles that say these things, then find the facts to dispute them. Like I said above, the ideas about fallacies are the smallest part of the assignment, the real work comes after I pick 10 of them.
 
Biden said its a aw.
The awb called them that to!

Aw is select fire .... Ar15 aren't bam that was easy lol.

Weed destroys brain cells.
England is the only place to do real testing and they proved that it doesn't.


Biden . The whole shot gun shooting through a door . Heck more then 2 people been busted for it since
 
The AR 15 is NOT an assault weapon.

fallacy.

(if the military uses it (assault weapon) and we can use it except for different cosmetics ie. buttstock, then we are using military weapons.)

I'm not aware of ANY military that uses the AR-15 at least in any serious way.

The AR-15 is just a light hunting rifle developed in the 1950's that the military liked and commissioned a version suitable for their purposes.
 
The AR 15 is NOT an assault weapon.

fallacy.

(if the military uses it (assault weapon) and we can use it except for different cosmetics ie. buttstock, then we are using military weapons.)

Well well well. Looks like someone REALLY is working for the enemy. Unbelievable.
 
I'm not aware of ANY military that uses the AR-15 at least in any serious way.

The AR-15 is just a light hunting rifle developed in the 1950's that the military liked and commissioned a version suitable for their purposes.

Correct, they don't use an AR-15 they use an M4. But my point was there's literally NO difference between the two other then that selector switch. The differences , bayonet lug, flash suppresor, adjustable butt stock, are all cosmetic. They shoot the same round. They operate the same way. Let me put it this way, you can take a upper off a M4 and put it on an AR15. In fact, ALL parts are interchangable (might be wrong please correct if so). That means, pull bolt out of M4 put it in Ar15. Pull trigger out of AR15 put it in M4. Pull firing pin from from either and swap it.

Note: this doesn't work when you use 5.56 in a .223 rifle, may cause bad things with extra chamber pressure. And that's all I'll say about the AR/M4 comparison thing, don't want to muck up the thread off topic anymore then it is. Anyone else interested in talkig about difference/similarities PM or start a new thread. I actually find it a very interesting topic and I think it's pretty crucial to the fight..
 
Correct, they don't use an AR-15 they use an M4. But my point was there's literally NO difference between the two other then that selector switch. The differences , bayonet lug, flash suppresor, adjustable butt stock, are all cosmetic. They shoot the same round. They operate the same way. Let me put it this way, you can take a upper off a M4 and put it on an AR15. In fact, ALL parts are interchangable (might be wrong please correct if so). That means, pull bolt out of M4 put it in Ar15. Pull trigger out of AR15 put it in M4. Pull firing pin from from either and swap it.

Note: this doesn't work when you use 5.56 in a .223 rifle, may cause bad things with extra chamber pressure. And that's all I'll say about the AR/M4 comparison thing, don't want to muck up the thread off topic anymore then it is. Anyone else interested in talkig about difference/similarities PM or start a new thread. I actually find it a very interesting topic and I think it's pretty crucial to the fight..
A flash suppressor is not cosmetic.
 
Correct, they don't use an AR-15 they use an M4. But my point was there's literally NO difference between the two other then that selector switch. The differences , bayonet lug, flash suppresor, adjustable butt stock, are all cosmetic. Dude, look up the word "cosmetic" in the dictionary. These are all functional assets. Flat dark earth instead of black would be cosmetic. Or a heart shaped dust cover. They shoot the same round. They operate the same way. Let me put it this way, you can take a upper off a M4 and put it on an AR15. In fact, ALL parts are interchangable (might be wrong please correct if so) Different BCG as far as I know.. That means, pull bolt out of M4 put it in Ar15. Pull trigger out of AR15 put it in M4. Pull firing pin from from either and swap it.

Note: this doesn't work when you use 5.56 in a .223 rifle, may cause bad things with extra chamber pressure. And that's all I'll say about the AR/M4 comparison thing, don't want to muck up the thread off topic anymore then it is. Anyone else interested in talkig about difference/similarities PM or start a new thread. I actually find it a very interesting topic and I think it's pretty crucial to the fight..
What fight are you talking about?
 
So I can't just go "ar15s are assault weapons. fallacy." I have to provide a quote from someone that SAID that an ar15 was an assault weapon, and then disprove it.

This doesn't fly. An AR-15 is not an assault rifle. You can find quotes of people calling them that, and then disprove it. But you cannot disprove the statement that "the AR-15 is an assault weapon" because the people calling it an assault weapon are defining an assault weapon as " an assault weapon has the following characteristics: <describe an AR-15>".

An assault rifle is a fully automatic firearm with certain characteristics that the AR-15 doesn't have, whereas an AR-15 is an assault weapon because it is defined as such.

It was done this way to confuse the public, who is generally uninformed and doesn't even know the is a difference between an assault rifle and an "assault weapon", and that is the intention of the lords if lies, I mean our politicians.
 
This doesn't fly. An AR-15 is not an assault rifle. You can find quotes of people calling them that, and then disprove it. But you cannot disprove the statement that "the AR-15 is an assault weapon" because the people calling it an assault weapon are defining an assault weapon as " an assault weapon has the following characteristics: <describe an AR-15>".

An assault rifle is a fully automatic firearm with certain characteristics that the AR-15 doesn't have, whereas an AR-15 is an assault weapon because it is defined as such.

It was done this way to confuse the public, who is generally uninformed and doesn't even know the is a difference between an assault rifle and an "assault weapon", and that is the intention of the lords if lies, I mean our politicians.

I know what you mean. The ar15 was just an example. The same applies to any fallacy I use. You are right though, it was a poor one to choose for the explanation.
 
Correct, they don't use an AR-15 they use an M4. But my point was there's literally NO difference between the two other then that selector switch. The differences , bayonet lug, flash suppresor, adjustable butt stock, are all cosmetic. They shoot the same round. They operate the same way. Let me put it this way, you can take a upper off a M4 and put it on an AR15. In fact, ALL parts are interchangable (might be wrong please correct if so). That means, pull bolt out of M4 put it in Ar15. Pull trigger out of AR15 put it in M4. Pull firing pin from from either and swap it.

Note: this doesn't work when you use 5.56 in a .223 rifle, may cause bad things with extra chamber pressure. And that's all I'll say about the AR/M4 comparison thing, don't want to muck up the thread off topic anymore then it is. Anyone else interested in talkig about difference/similarities PM or start a new thread. I actually find it a very interesting topic and I think it's pretty crucial to the fight..

PT, you caught the part where I said the military commissioned a military version of the civilian hunting rifle known as the AR-15, right? Shocker that some parts (NOT all) are interchangeable. It's almost like one was modeled after the other.

The M-16 is an assault weapon. The M4 is. The AR-15 is not and never was. It was meant for hunting varmints like 'yotes.


Shiver can actually use some of this to make the case, so: Shiver, do you want this part of the discussion moved? Happy to if so.
 
PT, you caught the part where I said the military commissioned a military version of the civilian hunting rifle known as the AR-15, right? Shocker that some parts (NOT all) are interchangeable. It's almost like one was modeled after the other.

The M-16 is an assault weapon. The M4 is. The AR-15 is not and never was. It was meant for hunting varmints like 'yotes.


Shiver can actually use some of this to make the case, so: Shiver, do you want this part of the discussion moved? Happy to if so.

Please, discuss on. This will all be handy if I do the ar15 argument. Seriously. It's not bothering me that it's in this thread, since this thread spawned it.
 
PT, you caught the part where I said the military commissioned a military version of the civilian hunting rifle known as the AR-15, right? Shocker that some parts (NOT all) are interchangeable. It's almost like one was modeled after the other.

The M-16 is an assault weapon. The M4 is. The AR-15 is not and never was. It was meant for hunting varmints like 'yotes.


Shiver can actually use some of this to make the case, so: Shiver, do you want this part of the discussion moved? Happy to if so.

I understand your point and it's well said. Example:

You have a NASCAR Stock Car. It's designed after a civilian car. Right? You paint it different colors and make it reallly fast (better parts). If you were then take that stock car, take off the logos (cosmetics) but left the engine and better parts in it (bolts the same, upper and lower reciever same, etc.) and offered it to civilians with a special license. Is it still race car? Or a civilian fast car? I would say it's still race car just painted different.... hope that helps.

This is a tough debate out there. I know the media uses it to bash the weapons and they use it to fear monger (not cool).

Does anyone know what parts are different other then the trigger group? And I must disagree on it having to be full auto to be an "assault weapon". But that's jsut my opinion.
 
I understand your point and it's well said. Example:

You have a NASCAR Stock Car. It's designed after a civilian car. Right? You paint it different colors and make it reallly fast (better parts). If you were then take that stock car, take off the logos (cosmetics) but left the engine and better parts in it (bolts the same, upper and lower reciever same, etc.) and offered it to civilians with a special license. Is it still race car? Or a civilian fast car? I would say it's still race car just painted different.... hope that helps.

This is a tough debate out there. I know the media uses it to bash the weapons and they use it to fear monger (not cool).

Does anyone know what parts are different other then the trigger group? And I must disagree on it having to be full auto to be an "assault weapon". But that's jsut my opinion.

That comparison is the opposite of what you were shooting for. A NASCAR dressed as a regular sedan has all the parts to make it ****ing fast, just looks different. An AR-15 looks the same as its military brethren, but lacks part of the components that make it the same (not select-fire)

Anything can be an "assault weapon." Literally any physical object. But FA makes an M16 an "assault rifle"
 
That comparison is the opposite of what you were shooting for. A NASCAR dressed as a regular sedan has all the parts to make it ****ing fast, just looks different. An AR-15 looks the same as its military brethren, but lacks part of the components that make it the same (not select-fire)

Anything can be an "assault weapon." Literally any physical object. But FA makes an M16 an "assault rifle"

Correct, it lacks ONE PART the selector switch. Like I said it's just my opinion on if that one piece makes it "Assault weapon". That's like removing the spoiler from the car and selling it. Sure the spoiler makes it faster and is a cruicial component, but does the spoiler make the car completely different? Still a fast bad a** car / still a awesome weapon even on semi...
 
I mean literally look at the specs of the AR and the M4... weight, length, range, ammunition, sights, method of operation (gas, none piston) are ALL the SAME or extremely close. And again, you can actually make an AR a much better weapon then an M4 (different calibers, lengths for accuracy, etc)
 
I understand your point and it's well said. Example:

You have a NASCAR Stock Car. It's designed after a civilian car. Right? You paint it different colors and make it reallly fast (better parts). If you were then take that stock car, take off the logos (cosmetics) but left the engine and better parts in it (bolts the same, upper and lower reciever same, etc.) and offered it to civilians with a special license. Is it still race car? Or a civilian fast car? I would say it's still race car just painted different.... hope that helps.

No, it really doesn't.

That process is the reverse of reality. A plain civilian car exists and some are modified into race cars. First, that does not automagically make all other cars of the same model, race cars, no matter how many stickers you put on them. Second, that race car is now (generally) illegal for the streets (although not to own). IMO there should be no law barring using such a car on the street anyway, simply consequences for abusing it, but that is a different discussion.


I guess you're really saying that guns that are extra killy shouldn't be owned by civilians. I disagree, but even if I DID, the AR-15 is NOT extra killy. It's just a hunting rifle, with the same functional characteristics as say the Ruger Mini 14. It simply IS NOT a hopped up race version of a rifle. It's JUST a rifle.

No matter WHAT the military did with the original AR-15 design to create their derivatives, the AR-15 is STILL the same rifle it was before a "race" version was created.


Does anyone know what parts are different other then the trigger group? And I must disagree on it having to be full auto to be an "assault weapon". But that's jsut my opinion.

I do not. And I think it is irrelevant given the profound lack of crimes committed using either AR-15 rifles or even illegally modified AR-15s.

However, I'm sure someone more versed with the platform can talk about that.
 
Correct, it lacks ONE PART the selector switch. Like I said it's just my opinion on if that one piece makes it "Assault weapon". That's like removing the spoiler from the car and selling it. Sure the spoiler makes it faster and is a cruicial component, but does the spoiler make the car completely different? Still a fast bad a** car / still a awesome weapon even on semi...

No, actually they lack about six parts and a couple of holes and some machining on most, but who's counting.
 
Academic freedom (not at our schools anymore)

Impartial press (every action taken in reporting the news isan editorial decision there is no impartial press)

Tolerance (as intolerance)

War is the continuation of politics by other means.

Religion is the cause of more wars and deaths... (see Soviet Union, Punic Wars)
 
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No, actually they lack about six parts and a couple of holes and some machining on most, but who's counting.

What are these? Honestly curious. Handled both for a long time but I'm not an armorer, that's why i said there may be parts I'm not aware of.

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No, it really doesn't.

That process is the reverse of reality. A plain civilian car exists and some are modified into race cars. First, that does not automagically make all other cars of the same model, race cars, no matter how many stickers you put on them. Second, that race car is now (generally) illegal for the streets (although not to own). IMO there should be no law barring using such a car on the street anyway, simply consequences for abusing it, but that is a different discussion.


I guess you're really saying that guns that are extra killy shouldn't be owned by civilians. I disagree, but even if I DID, the AR-15 is NOT extra killy. It's just a hunting rifle, with the same functional characteristics as say the Ruger Mini 14. It simply IS NOT a hopped up race version of a rifle. It's JUST a rifle.

No matter WHAT the military did with the original AR-15 design to create their derivatives, the AR-15 is STILL the same rifle it was before a "race" version was created.




I do not. And I think it is irrelevant given the profound lack of crimes committed using either AR-15 rifles or even illegally modified AR-15s.

However, I'm sure someone more versed with the platform can talk about that.

Well said, it's a hunting rifle. What do you think an AW is? Difference is the AR is for hunting deer (although illegal to use in mant states, lol) and the AW is for hunting humans. So is the day one gets turned on a human (not often thank god) not in war, does it then become an AW?
 
What are these? Honestly curious. Handled both for a long time but I'm not an armorer, that's why i said there may be parts I'm not aware of.

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Well said, it's a hunting rifle. What do you think an AW is? Difference is the AR is for hunting deer (although illegal to use in mant states, lol) and the AW is for hunting humans. So is the day one gets turned on a human (not often thank god) not in war, does it then become an AW?

You want to know about an M16, go read about it. Everything you could possibly want to know about it is two google searches away, do your own research.

Oh, and I was born at night, but it wasn't last night.

You think you're going to snare me in a trap dicussing fullauto conversions? I've been shooting and researching machineguns as long or longer than you've been alive and I know the ins and outs of sleaseball cops and ATF agents and how they work. Playing STUPID is the oldest one in the book. Go pay for your education, you ain't getting it from me for free.

Oh, and you're using "Well said" just like you used the term "Sir".
 
politicians represent the people
politicians are elected by the people
The federal income tax is a temporary tax
A fee is not a tax
 
You want to know about an M16, go read about it. Everything you could possibly want to know about it is two google searches away, do your own research.

Oh, and I was born at night, but it wasn't last night.

You think you're going to snare me in a trap dicussing fullauto conversions? I've been shooting and researching machineguns as long or longer than you've been alive and I know the ins and outs of sleaseball cops and ATF agents and how they work. Playing STUPID is the oldest one in the book. Go pay for your education, you ain't getting it from me for free.

Oh, and you're using "Well said" just like you used the term "Sir".

Is this post serious? Maybe the tinfoil hat is covering your ears... I'm genuine when I ask about the differences. And NO ONE was talking about any "full auto conversion". PLEASE SHOW THE POST that say that. Again, as said before, you don't have to post.
 
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